Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #37

[Consider Dudley]

“What is right and what is wrong”

The search for MM has had two Portuguese investigations, one by the met and one by the BKA.

Additionally at least two private investigations have been funded by the MM fund - money donated mainly by the public.

How is it right that the search for one child has been funded so heavily compared to other missing children.

Ideals are… well ideal but when the UK government debt is over £2.6tn, responsible spending is important.

Perhaps you’d like to suggest an upper limit budget on investigating cases of missing children?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

It's democracy Dudley. Freedom and all that. The same freedom allows others to answer the questions before the hypothetical new Capote sits down in front of the typewriter. So far nobody has.

(asking questions isn't the same thing as accusing anybody of anything. I don't know what happened to Madeleine. How could I, I wasn't there. Wolters imo doesn't know either. Every time he's asked "did CB abduct Madeleine?" he looks like Beavis and Butthead when they're asked what plans they have for the future. Nobody knows for certain what happened to her. But I know there are things that were not explained back then, and which still haven't been)

I agree.

I don’t feel there was transparency around the case initially nor since.

I am not blaming the McCanns but they made some unusual choices and I would be interested to know why.

Through OG and other government support they have received extraordinarily preferential treatment from the tax payer. In return, an explanation to the public would be well received.

All MO.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The McCanns (parents) have got nothing to do with his investigation. Perhaps you mean reports on anything to do with Madeleine McCann?

<modsnip - personalizing>

It’s not because of MM that the media is not adequately probing and critiquing the investigation, it’s because of GM and KM.

All MO.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Perhaps you’d like to suggest an upper limit budget on investigating cases of missing children?

No, just equitable treatment for all missing children. I can’t understand how anyone would argue otherwise.

 

[Consider Dudley]

No, just equitable treatment for all missing children. I can’t understand how anyone would argue otherwise.

I can give it a go if you like. Cases of missing children vary widely depending on age and circumstances eg whether or not they ran away from home or were taken on the run by a parent, etc, so a 15 year old who runs away to the big city is different to an 8 year old taken abroad by his estranged father against his mother's wishes, to a 4 year old who disappears from her bed in the middle of the night. I would agree that spending £15 million trying to trace a 15 year old runaway might be considered excessive, however when it comes to trying to find a four year old who may have been abducted, possibly by someone intent on harming her and therefore possibly other children too then £15 million whilst still a huge sum of money seems more justifiable. In this case, if it remains unsolved at £15m then that could be considered money down the drain by some, however spend another (for example £500k) to solve the case, achieve justice and prevent harm coming to others, well then that might be considered money well spent.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I can give it a go if you like. Cases of missing children vary widely depending on age and circumstances eg whether or not they ran away from home or were taken on the run by a parent, etc, so a 15 year old who runs away to the big city is different to an 8 year old taken abroad by his father against his estranged mother's wishes, to a 4 year old who disappears from her bed in the middle of the night. I would agree that spending £15 million trying to trace a 15 year old runaway might be considered excessive, however when it comes to trying to find a four year old who may have been abducted, possibly by someone intent on harming her and therefore possibly other children too then £15 million whilst still a huge sum of money seems more justifiable. In this case, if it remains unsolved at £15m then that could be considered money down the drain by some, however spend another (for example £500k) to solve the case, achieve justice and prevent harm coming to others, well then that might be considered money well spent.

Okay, so there should be many examples where £5M or £10M or £15M have been spent on the investigations - can you provide an example?

Ben Needham’s case was awarded £700k by the Home Office for an additional investigation in 2015. His mum had to lobby for 24 years and hire a human rights barrister for that. Very young child who went missing in Greece.

The MM case is remarkable in many ways but especially in funding.

 

[Consider Dudley]

<modsnip - personalizing>

It’s not because of MM that the media is not adequately probing and critiquing the investigation, it’s because of GM and KM.

All MO.

<modsnip - quoted post was snipped> It is perfectly possible to probe and critique the current investigation into Madeleine's disappearance without ever once mentioning Kate and Gerry McCann, or insinuating that they had anything whatsoever to do with Madeleine's disappearance. Do you disagree with this statement?

 

[Consider Dudley]

Okay, so there should be many examples where £5M or £10M or £15M have been spent on the investigations - can you provide an example?

Ben Needham’s case was awarded £700k by the Home Office for an additional investigation in 2015. His mum had to lobby for 24 years and hire a human rights barrister for that. Very young child who went missing in Greece.

The MM case is remarkable in many ways but especially in funding.

Ben Needham's case happened in the early 1990s. I suspect if it had happened in the mid 2000s it would have received a similar level of public interest and far more resources thrown at it as a result. But, yes quite possibly his mother was badly served by the police, and she probably feels very hard done by, I expect I would too, but I doubt she has ever argued that less money should have been spent on looking for Madeleine just because less was spent looking for Ben. Personally I don't think considerations like the level of government debt should be taken into consideration when it comes to solving serious crimes such as abduction and murder. It costs what it costs, and if you're arguing for more money to be spent on revisiting the Ben Needham case then I would be in totally in favour of that too, if new leads present themselves.

 

[Consider Dudley]

The Welsh police spent over £2 million in the few months they spent looking for April Jones body. Of course they knew she was dead all the while they were searching, unlike at the outset of Operation Grange which was set up to find a possibly living child. Extrapolate those few months' costs over the years Op Grange has been looking for Madeleine (and with the added complications of the disappearance happening abroad) and you can see how it can mount up.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

<modsnip - quoted post was snipped> It is perfectly possible to probe and critique the current investigation into Madeleine's disappearance without ever once mentioning Kate and Gerry McCann, or insinuating that they had anything whatsoever to do with Madeleine's disappearance. Do you disagree with this statement?

Yes.

But there is little probing and critique. If it were another case, I’m certain the media pressure on the police would be far more severe.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Ben Needham's case happened in the early 1990s. I suspect if it had happened in the mid 2000s it would have received a similar level of public interest and far more resources thrown at it as a result. But, yes quite possibly his mother was badly served by the police, and she probably feels very hard done by, I expect I would too, but I doubt she has ever argued that less money should have been spent on looking for Madeleine just because less was spent looking for Ben. Personally I don't think considerations like the level of government debt should be taken into consideration when it comes to solving serious crimes such as abduction and murder. It costs what it costs, and if you're arguing for more money to be spent on revisiting the Ben Needham case then I would be in totally in favour of that too, if new leads present themselves.

But government debt is funding these cases. It’s already over 100% of GDP.

Most of the tax collected by the government is income tax. Do taxpayers want the government to continue borrowing so that they will be taxed at higher rates for the rest of their lives - it’s already a lifelong repayment - to pay the interest.

Ultimately, however much care people want to give, equal responsibility should be shown to the people who are paying for it.

 

[Consider Dudley]

But government debt is funding these cases. It’s already over 100% of GDP.

Most of the tax collected by the government is income tax. Do taxpayers want the government to continue borrowing so that they will be taxed at higher rates for the rest of their lives - it’s already a lifelong repayment - to pay the interest.

Ultimately, however much care people want to give, equal responsibility should be shown to the people who are paying for it.

Which takes me back to my original question - how much should be the maximum spent per missing child? If we have to consider that tax payers money should be spent equally and fairly on thse who pay taxes then all sorts of considerations have to be taken into account and budgets set.

 

[Pixie Child]

I can give it a go if you like. Cases of missing children vary widely depending on age and circumstances eg whether or not they ran away from home or were taken on the run by a parent, etc, so a 15 year old who runs away to the big city is different to an 8 year old taken abroad by his estranged father against his mother's wishes, to a 4 year old who disappears from her bed in the middle of the night. I would agree that spending £15 million trying to trace a 15 year old runaway might be considered excessive, however when it comes to trying to find a four year old who may have been abducted, possibly by someone intent on harming her and therefore possibly other children too then £15 million whilst still a huge sum of money seems more justifiable. In this case, if it remains unsolved at £15m then that could be considered money down the drain by some, however spend another (for example £500k) to solve the case, achieve justice and prevent harm coming to others, well then that might be considered money well spent.

It’s right that this case receive all the funding necessary. It has been a test case of cooperation between countries and police forces.

Criminals and paedophiles have long tried to evade police scrutiny by moving to Spain & Portugal. There should have been more engagement between EU police forces about their drifter citizens.

Portugal has an underbelly of foreign drifters & drug dealers - allowed to engage in petty crime. They choose to overlook it because the victims were tourists.

When offered the opportunity to work with British Police, the Portuguese didn’t want to, which was a lost opportunity at the time but hopefully lessons have been learnt.

The Brits have also shown that CCTV surveillance is a useful investigative tool and protective of all; hopefully the Portuguese have taken note.

 

[Consider Dudley]

Yes.

But there is little probing and critique. If it were another case, I’m certain the media pressure on the police would be far more severe.

And that would be a good thing would it? The media putting severe pressure on the police to solve a crime before or because the investigation goes over budget in their view? I can see that leading to all sorts of miscarriages of justice personally.

 

[Consider Dudley]

Yes.

But there is little probing and critique. If it were another case, I’m certain the media pressure on the police would be far more severe.

Just for the sake of clarity and to satisfy my curiosity when you say “yes” you are saying yes you disagree that is possible to probe and critique the current investigation into Madeleine's disappearance without ever once mentioning Kate and Gerry McCann, or insinuating that they had anything whatsoever to do with Madeleine's disappearance? If so can I ask why?

 

[Mex]

“What is right and what is wrong”

The search for MM has had two Portuguese investigations, one by the met and one by the BKA.

Additionally at least two private investigations have been funded by the MM fund - money donated mainly by the public.

How is it right that the search for one child has been funded so heavily compared to other missing children.

Ideals are… well ideal but when the UK government debt is over £2.6tn, responsible spending is important.

The almost impossible task that faced any investigation into MM's disappearance was very likely as a result of the botched initial first stages of the Portuguese investigation which probably set the seal on everything which subsequently followed.

In fact it is probably a bit of a miracle that anything of value was salvageable from it to enable her parents to keep things going for the six years when no-one but they were looking for the missing MM.


K and GM are likely to take limited solace from Portuguese authorities designating a convicted German sex offender a formal suspect in the disappearance of their daughter, more than 14 years after police pointed a finger of suspicion at them.

In their case, it took 11 months for the Portuguese police to lift their categorisation of the couple as arguidos – translated from Portuguese as “named suspects” or “formal suspects”.

The initial police investigation in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in May 2007 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz was also shelved at that point. But by then, investigators had already made a string of potentially crucial, basic errors that included not only falsely suspecting K and GM but also failing to seal off the scene at the family’s Praia da Luz holiday apartment.

False leads, multiple suspects: the long search for Madeleine McCann

Analysis: There have been many twists in investigation into disappearance of girl from Portuguese resort in 2007

www.theguardian.com

 

[Mex]

I agree.

I don’t feel there was transparency around the case initially nor since.

I am not blaming the McCanns but they made some unusual choices and I would be interested to know why.

Through OG and other government support they have received extraordinarily preferential treatment from the tax payer. In return, an explanation to the public would be well received.

All MO.

I would be very surprised if the public expect to hear any explanation from innocent people such as KM, GM, RM or the 2014 arguidos.

 

[Lyall0814]

Take a look at the Australian case mentioned yesterday, Mex. Same thing happened there. It happens everywhere when police arrive and they don't know what the situation is. It doesn't just happen in Portugal. Same thing happened in Boulder, Colorado, in the JonBenet case. US police, not Portuguese. Same thing happened in Soham. UK police of course. Not Portuguese. It happens everywhere.

Considering you want the Portuguese to help the German and British police now I'd have thought your relentless anti-Portuguese rhetoric was entirely counter-productive.

 

[Mex]

No, just equitable treatment for all missing children. I can’t understand how anyone would argue otherwise.

I agree with that opinion 100%

Which is why I think that no missing child should be ignored by the authorities for six years while the parents are left to raise money to pay for private detectives to search for her.

 

[RichardKimble]

I would be very surprised if the public expect to hear any explanation from innocent people such as KM, GM, RM or the 2014 arguidos.

Malinka was one of the 2014 arguidos, the other three had Bilton of the beeb with his furry mike harassed them in the name of journalism in 2017.

Who Is Sergey Malinka And How Is He Involved In The Case Of Madeleine McCann? | Oxygen Official Site

Following the disappearance of 3-year-old Madeleine McCann from a Portuguese hotel room in 2007, police scrambled to figure out what happened that fateful night. Investigators pursued several leads, eventually leading them to Robert Murat and his business associate Sergey Malinka. Now, years...

www.oxygen.com