Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #2

[Marmlet]

I mentioned my special-needs sister in the previous thread, and I’ve just now finally taken a close look at the pictures of the accommodations Nora went missing from. I think there is a slight disconnect between how Nora’s disabilities have been described, vs. the choosing of those accommodations. Especially if Nora was sleeping upstairs. She would not only need to navigate the spiral staircase, there is also the railing looking over the downstairs that could be fallen over.

If Nora has trouble with balance and walking, I am very surprised that they would have her sleeping upstairs there, especially without one of the parents sleeping up there as well. If reports that all three children were upstairs/parents were downstairs is accurate, then I think her physical capabilities have been understated. I completely understand that, though — if I, as a parent, fully believed that my child were abducted and the officials didn’t seem to agree, I would totally exaggerate/stress the reasons I felt that way! It would be very frustrating to feel that the investigation was going in the wrong direction, diminishing the chances of your child being found.

I think Nora must have somehow made her way outside, and any number of things could have happened after that. I also think she could still be in the immediate area, just not found. We see that in searches all the time — just because they did a thorough search doesn’t mean she couldn’t have been missed. We also see dogs missing scents on searches.

I keep checking back here, hoping she’s been found. I can’t imagine going back home with your child still missing. I think Nora’s parents seem genuinely devastated, and I really feel for them. I know that we are ALWAYS supposed to treat the family supportively and as victims, but in many (actually, most) missing children cases on here, people give the parents side-eye. I have wondered whether this family’s seeming affluence (compared to a lot of the missing children we see on here) has colored how people see the situation.

This whole scenario is completely baffling; HOW did she get out of there without anyone noticing? Maybe the openness to the outside made it harder to hear what was going on inside? Sounds of nature drowning other sounds out? I’m sure this feels like a horrible nightmare that the family would love to wake up from.

 

[jslk]

These threads are becoming as circular as the spiral staircase and my head is spinning. I suppose that's what happens when there is little info and no apparent breakthroughs!

By the way - I think we may have slightly skewed take on the genie etc - jinn are evil spirits in Islam and clearly it's the same root as the word genie but a different sort of thing entirely, nothing to do with rubbing lamps. The festival referred to is Eid ul Adha which commemorates the willingness of Abraham to sacrifice his son. Nothing nefarious.

 

[Lucy6226]

The only evidence seems to be from the Dutch couple's statements. One might question if they are accurate? Some people might think they are helping by giving information or sometimes it can be a diversion technique

 

[dotr]

Met Police expert analyses seven lines of enquiry in missing Nora Quoirin case
"Police from four nations are hunting vulnerable teenager Nora Quoirin in dense and dangerous jungle.

Ten days after the 15-year-old Londoner vanished overnight from a remote eco-resort in Malaysia, ex-Det Chief Insp Peter Kirkham analyses the case in detail for the Mirror."
"The police still don’t know whether they are investigating a missing person case or a crime. But many of the required investigative steps apply to both and it is mainly an issue of priorities.

The investigators have to work on every theory that fit the facts and all remain possibilities until hard evidence is found to rule them out.

In this case there is the added difficulty that the missing person is a visitor to the country with all the communication difficulties and and other complexities that that brings.

One advantage, however, is that the Malaysian police investigation is now being supported by officers from the UK, Ireland and even France."

"4. Examination of scene

An interior from the place where Nora and the family were staying
The examination of the scene of Nora’s disappearance – namely the cottage in which she and her parents were staying and, especially, the room in which she was sleeping – is absolutely crucial to this case.

It is important to establish for sure not only what is there, such as fingerprints of DNA traces, but what is not.

It seems that the police have carried out some scene examination at the cottage as there have been reports that no fingerprints were found around the window which was found open but the extent of the examination, and the expertise of the scene examiners should be reviewed as soon as possible."

The red dot indicates where Nora was last seen

 

[momrids6]

The river was searched by divers early on.

Um- no diving equipment except snorkel masks- so its not very deep, they didn't search the deep parts, or they don't have equipment

 

[neesaki]

As the desperate search for Nora enters its second week, video footage shows the medicine men crying out and praying in the dense jungle for her safe return.

Wearing skull caps while performing ancient rituals, the shaman sat cross-legged on the jungle floor, and covered their eyes.

One of the medicine men, Shaman Khalid Mohamad, told cops - who were videoing them praying - that he believes the girl was lured by a genie, an invisible spirit believed by Muslims to inhabit the Earth and influence mankind by appearing in the form of humans or animals.

He said in the clip that the genie was drawn to the teen because she has special needs and had chosen Nora, 15, as its step-child.

The clip shows both shaman crying and appealing for the girl's return.

Shaman Mohamad claimed: "Tonight I will ask for the spirit to return her from where (she was taken) and the condition they took her but they will ask for something in exchange.

"That will be between me and them. Most important now, the child will be released."


The Shaman added: "She is here now, so we will stay here tonight to see if we can find her then we can know why she went missing."
Missing Nora, 15, was taken by ‘GENIE’ claims shaman brought in by cops

Well then, I think I’ll pray with them.

 

[neesaki]

“Is the Dusun suitable for children?
Many children have enjoyed the Dusun. It is a different experience from the city as they can peer at fish and tadpoles, watch frogs hop around and look out for birds in the trees. We have a playground, a kid’s pool, a high chair and a baby cot available for guests. We also have a little deer park. We recommend bringing mosquito repellant cream for children.

Please do not add children to your booking request as our booking system does not allow children, but we do. Please email us if you have children with you so we can prepare the room.”

Well that’s a bit odd. So, they discourage bringing children? So, why bring them?
Omg, Idk... I’m about beside myself at this point.
It’s so heartbreaking, yet it seems again one of those cases that should never have happened.

 

[Razz]

No way. It's hard enough to sleepwalk in a place that you are familiar with.
In a place completely unfamiliar you would not get very far, and I doubt anyone would make it down the stairs without falling and waking up, not to mention getting hurt pretty bad. Imo

My father in law (may he rest in peace) on 2 different occasions and after taking an ambien, managed to walk out of our house at 2 a.m on Christmas evening. He was barefoot and wearing pjs and it was cold. Anyway, he toured some of the neighbors homes and was confounded by all the open gifts and why everyone was sleeping. He had never been in these homes before. He walked 2 miles to the gatehouse where the guard there called my husband to come pick him up as police were on their way. The 2nd time, while sleepwalking and on a cruise, he managed to find the boiler room of the ship and told them he wanted to see the Capt so he could tell him how dirty the ship was.

 

[momrids6]

As a parent of a special needs child , yes you wake up at night a lot.
What I find super weird is that no one heard anything not even her siblings sleeping next to her. But we have to take into account that they were probably tired.
JMO.

I am as well- but I basically have slept with "one eye open" since my oldest was born. My kids can all sleep through most anything

 

[Eloise]

Well that’s a bit odd. So, they discourage bringing children? So, why bring them?
Omg, Idk... I’m about beside myself at this point.
It’s so heartbreaking, yet it seems it again, seems one of those cases that should never happened.

I don't think that reads as it discourages children. Seems they very much welcome it given they have a playground, kid's pool, high chair and cot. They just don't have a way to specify "children" in their booking system.

 

[MsBetsy]

It's not impossible, people are able to navigate while sleep walking, aswell as drive, make food and even murder!

True, but it's extremely rare. And most of those cases involved medication such as ambien, which has been known to cause such side effects, or other drugs such as alcohol. Febrile illness can also cause sleepwalking but we have no indication that Nora was ill.

It is most common among young children, but they tend to outgrow it by the time they are teenagers.

We have not had any indication that Nora has a history of sleepwalking.
It is a sleep disorder which I would think would have been mentioned in light of her being missing.

Although fatigue can also be a factor, so it's not impossible. We also don't know if she was taking any medication, but I would think they would have mentioned that. Imo

 

[neesaki]

I don't think that reads as it discourages children. Seems they very much welcome it given they have a playground, kid's pool, high chair and cot. They just don't have a way to specify "children" in their booking system.

Ok, maybe I misunderstood. Thank you.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

If as that Dutch tourist said the family went to bed early, around 10ish, let's say all were asleep by 11.30/midnight, that still leaves a good 8 hours in which she disappeared. That jungle looks immense too. Even searching I am still not sure how thorough a job they have done. With so much undergrowth you would need hundreds more to go over literally every square foot.

 

[momrids6]

If as that Dutch tourist said the family went to bed early, around 10ish, let's say all were asleep by 11.30/midnight, that still leaves a good 8 hours in which she disappeared. That jungle looks immense too. Even searching I am still not sure how thorough a job they have done. With so much undergrowth you would need hundreds more to go over literally every square foot.

I imagine. Another poster is from there, and states they are still pulling out remains from WWII

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

So if the Dutch tourist is to be believed, the father was certain immediately it had to be a crime that had taken place:

'Then the man said very angryly [sic], "the crime took place here!"'

 

[neesaki]

Has N’s dad spoken publicly at all since N went missing? I know it was her mum who spoke during the two conferences so far but has her dad said anything?

Not that I know of, but in the videos and pics, he appears to be a rather shy sort of guy. Therefore it doesn’t surprise me at all.
BTW, both of the parents of this child seem completely genuine to me, unlike many we see in these type of cases. IMO

Honestly, every time I read posts that question the parents going out in public and complain about them not making a big show with the media, I think, Oh God, if it was me, I would be crusified.

Why? Because I am and have always been shy, and hate being in the limelight, and my DH is much the same. We both are somewhat introverts. I actually am very introverted, so, there is that.

Maybe we might all try being a bit more understanding and compassionate towards these poor people who loose their children. Just imagine that happening while on vacation. How horrific!

 

[dotr]

Not a pleasant thought or image, but reading about some of the animals in the area, wondering if ugh- a snake may have crept up on Nora," taken her," then slunk away into the jungle? speculation, imo.
Met Police expert analyses seven lines of enquiry in missing Nora Quoirin case
"Sadly, in cases such as this, where a missing person is even more vulnerable than usual, the risk to their health and safety escalates rapidly the longer it takes to find them.

This is particularly true in a remote jungle area with dangerous animals such as wild boar, poisonous snakes including cobras, vipers and pythons, even potentially deadly caterpillars.

But the searchers will continue until they are sure that they have done all they can reasonably do and all hope of finding Nora alive has gone.

The criminal investigation into what happened will be pursued as far as possible, but the evidence for investigators to work from is limited and there are few lines of enquiry likely to throw up the answer.

The local deputy police chief Che Zakaria Othman yesterday expressed confidence in his officers, declaring: “We are committed to the search and will carry on going until we find her.”

 

[Amonet]

Wondering how far religious venues are from the resort, maybe it would not hurt to look for Nora in areas nearby them?
Churchgoing family of missing Nora Quoirin offer £10,000 reward - Premier Christian Radio
rbbm.
"Nora's family are regulars at St Bede's Church in Clapham Park.
A vigil was held for her there last week."

"You have given up your time especially at a special festival time," said Ms Quoirin, referring to Hari Raya Haji, the Islamic "festival of sacrifice" celebrations."

"Anyone with information is asked to contact the Lucie Blackman Trust intelligence on ops@lbtrust.org or +44 800 098 8485."

I see 'festival of sacrifice' is bolded there. Apparently it's to commemorate and celebrate the sacrifice that the Prophet Ibrahim (aka Abraham) was willing to make of his son to God, but God stopped the sacrifice at the last moment.

I believe most people would interpret this as someone being willing to give their most precious thing (their child) to God. But it might also be seen as this God does not require live sacrifices of children as the old pagan gods might have done, so it's a story of deep faith, but also saying that God does not require child sacrifice.

 

[whatizzinit]

And me.

And me

 

[whatizzinit]

If you are set on the idea that the parents have something to do with her disappearance, I doesn't matter if he speaks too much or too little you already made up your mind.
We have seen it time and time again. JMO

I am not set on anything but still felt it odd. My husband is way better at public speaking than me, it if a family member was missing, that wound be the last of my concerns. Also - he was the one who noticed her missing first, so expecting him to glean about it is not unrealistic. JMHO.