Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #5

[Sarahlou]

My very initial thought when Nora was found was that still an abduction but Nora became unwell and the perpetrator panicked.

I've thought this before. I could imagine someone being panicked by either her being unwell, or fearing they were about to be caught out

 

[momrids6]

Different types of search dogs work off of different things. They found her scent for so many meters, then lost it. Could that be that the dogs were working off her scent from a piece of clothing, then she no longer had clothing on with same scent, or none on but underclothes? Dogs In Search And Rescue

 

[sabrecmc]

I think some of my personal confusion in the beginning came from interpreting what the family was saying about Nora's abilities (which may have come from extended family and I understand the parents have now distanced themselves from these statements). At first, I thought she just had learning delays, so the insistence that it was a kidnapping seemed odd. Then, it seemed like the family was saying that her condition was such that she was all but physically unable to have left the room and maneuvered down the stairs on her own, so abduction just about had to be the only option. But, abduction from a room with numerous other people planned within a few hours of their arrival? That seemed so odd. Stranger abduction is pretty rare and in a foreign location like this and invovling foreigh nations, it seems even less likely, so the idea that it was all planned within hours of their arrival and carried out by some abductor bold enough to break into their room or somehow lure her out without alerting anyone else just defies belief. It isn't impossible, but it certainly doesn't seem likely.

However, now, it seems like it was more that they were saying that it wasn't physically impossible for her to have left on her own, just completely out of character, which I can understand in their minds made it seem almost impossible. After all, they wouldn't put her in a second story bedroom, with the bathroom and another bed option on the first floor, if she was truly physically incapable of leaving the room on her own. They probably wouldn't have chosen this vacation spot if she was so severely physically limited. They couldn't have been worried that if they put her on the first floor she would leave b/c they obviously never thought that was a serious concern since it would be so out of character. So I really think a lot of my initial confusion was because I accepted the idea that she was far more physically limited than she may actually have been, making abduction almost the only possible scenario, when really, the parents were maybe saying it wasn't physically impossible, just so wildly out of character for her that the didn't believe it was possible. When I take the physical impossibility away, by far the most likely scenario is that she left on her own for a hundred possible reasons that we will never know and got tragically lost in an unfamiliar place.

 

[SuperTmo]

Even if she didn't come across the news, some friend would have told her, since she just came back from Malaysia.

Perhaps. But not everyone is obsessed with this stuff like we are. Lots of people will hear a missing kid, and just shut it out of their minds since the stories are so freaking horrendous most of the time. Also, if this mystery woman was in the water each day it may not even stand out as important. Truth be told, most people don’t want to get involved in stuff like this.

 

[SuperTmo]

I've thought this before. I could imagine someone being panicked by either her being unwell, or fearing they were about to be caught out

But for me it comes back to WHY? Why would someone steal what is apparently a significantly disabled teenager? How’d they get her out of that tiny house? She’s bigger than I am. (Not that she is large, I just stopped growing at like 10, but I suspect someone would struggle to carry me out in that house) With no evidence of abuse, what was the point of taking her? Just to hang out?

 

[Kubirai]

Perhaps. But not everyone is obsessed with this stuff like we are. Lots of people will hear a missing kid, and just shut it out of their minds since the stories are so freaking horrendous most of the time. Also, if this mystery woman was in the water each day it may not even stand out as important. Truth be told, most people don’t want to get involved in stuff like this.

I find it to be exact opposite. People who weren't in same area come forward with tips. For missing kids, sightings come from far away countries, etc.

 

[Simply Southern]

Can anyone translate the documents attached in twit?
Who is considered Royalty?
Thanks

Sumisha Naidu on Twitter

The Malaysian Communication and Multimedia Commission sets up a WhatsApp hotline for the public to submit screenshots of social media postings deemed problematic on “3R” - “Race”, “Religion” or “Royalty”. Good move or encouraging a nanny state? MCMC (Official) on Twitter

 

[MsBetsy]

With all due respect you are assuming these things. We have zero idea what services she received outside of school, when the last time she was in the hospital, or even if she has been to the doctor for any reason recently. Unless there is a link you can’t state these as facts.

Yes, of course, I was suggesting that it is possible, based on her mom's statement that her strengths, cognitive skills, etc, were continuously assessed.
I don't think I stated that she received services elsewhere, just that it is possible for someone to receive these services out side of the school environment.
Many children who have problems with fine motor skills (doing buttons, washing her hair) are eligible for occupational or physical therapy, so I dont think it's a far reach to assume that her family may have used any resources that would help her with that.
I usually try to add IMO to all my posts, so I'm sorry if I didn't. It's too late for me to edit, but to clarify, I did not mean to say that she definitely had all these services, just that it is likely that at some point she did. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Child hikers wade across these streams on family hikes from Dusun to Lata Berembun. FB has photos and description.

Yes, I was referring to swimming in the river.

 

[SuperTmo]

Yes, I was referring to swimming in the river.

Does anyone know how deep the river is and how swift the current?

 

[MsBetsy]

Does anyone know how deep the river is and how swift the current?

I don't think so. I'm still not sure we even know if the woman seen was actually swimming or bathing. Imo

 

[akazia1978]

I admit I have not been following this thread. My daughter is "special needs" she has an IEP in school. She has however gotten much better after tears

There are most definitely schools for severely developmentally disabled children. I worked at one. Kids who didn’t need to be in a hospital or care facility, but also couldn’t go to a regular school or one like Nora’s. They didn’t teach the stuff being shown on Nora’s school’s video. Who knows? Maybe they didn’t show the children who fall in the severe category.

Either way it is very clean that Nora seemed to have had a very mild form of her disorder based on what is available to read online about it. Some kids with the same disorder have almost normally formed brains and only demonstrate facial characteristics and mild learning disabilities. But you guys are free to assume she was in the worst category despite the things we know about her.

The kids at the school I worked at all were dependent on being hand fed or receiving TPN, all needed help toileting or having diapers changed. But they all lived at home with their families. None of them were capable of the things the kids in school video were.

I agree.I have a child that I was in fact discouraged to stay away from "official diagnosis" as they are often wrong. 8 years later my child is a beautiful, but sensitive human. Some develop later than others. Nora I know nothing about. I won't until it is clarified

 

[drama_farmer]

It occurred to me today that if Nora had been found a few days earlier (and alive), this would have been one of those "overcoming the odds," "rising above expectations" and "miracle!" feelgood stories. That she kept herself alive and was able to travel such a great distance, in difficult terrain in an extreme climate would be a testament to the inner strength and survival instinct that drives people in extreme circumstances to accomplish what was thought to be impossible.

Obviously, this ending was a complete tragedy. But, if it turns out (as the preliminary evidence dictates ) that she did, in fact, travel to the waterfall alone after surviving long days in the jungle, in doesn't change the fact that she did accomplish what others deemed to be impossible. IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe. I suppose it will depend on what the toxicology and DNA tests show. If both have nothing substantial, I think the parents will not pursue another autopsy. But if there are results that surprise them or are unexpected, they might to see about getting another one to see if the outcome has the same or a different result.

Even so, it would be wise to have another autopsy. Forensic Pathologists can interpret things differently. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Different types of search dogs work off of different things. They found her scent for so many meters, then lost it. Could that be that the dogs were working off her scent from a piece of clothing, then she no longer had clothing on with same scent, or none on but underclothes? Dogs In Search And Rescue

She was barefoot, so a pair of her shoes worn recently would have been good, but I don't think we know what was used. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

I admit I have not been following this thread. My daughter is "special needs" she has an IEP in school. She has however gotten much better after tears

I agree.I have a child that I was in fact discouraged to stay away from "official diagnosis" as they are often wrong. 8 years later my child is a beautiful, but sensitive human. Some develop later than others. Nora I know nothing about. I won't until it is clarified

Yes, "labels" can carry a certain stigma which is definitely not appealing to anybody. It's especially difficult for children to have to deal with those things in school.

Nora had Holoprosencephaly, and apparently was treated her whole life, so it's not something that would be difficult to diagnose. Imo

 

[neesaki]

Perhaps. But not everyone is obsessed with this stuff like we are. Lots of people will hear a missing kid, and just shut it out of their minds since the stories are so freaking horrendous most of the time. Also, if this mystery woman was in the water each day it may not even stand out as important. Truth be told, most people don’t want to get involved in stuff like this.

I don’t know of a single soul locally that pays one bit of attention to missing persons cases. Whenever I have brought it up in the past.... something I’ve since given up on... they were completely oblivious.
I know, I don’t get it either. I personally find it a bit disheartening.

 

[neesaki]

I don't think so. I'm still not sure we even know if the woman seen was actually swimming or bathing. Imo

I don’t think we even know if there was a woman in the river at all. IMO

 

[neesaki]

But for me it comes back to WHY? Why would someone steal what is apparently a significantly disabled teenager? How’d they get her out of that tiny house? She’s bigger than I am. (Not that she is large, I just stopped growing at like 10, but I suspect someone would struggle to carry me out in that house) With no evidence of abuse, what was the point of taking her? Just to hang out?

It is a mystery isn’t it?

 

[MsBetsy]

I don’t think we even know if there was a woman in the river at all. IMO

Good point.