Marc Klass on CTV

[paperhanger44z]

Okay, forget the fiber.

What about everything else? It's not just one thing...but all the things together. There's no way they get a pass from me...not yet. This latest guy goes into the pile with them.

I'm not saying they absolutely didn't do it.All i'm saying is there isn't enough evidence for me to even indict them if i was on a grand jury. By the way I feel the same with this new guy.Also thank you all for your insight on this and other cases.Iam really impressed with your obvious deep desire for justice.

 

[kazzbar]

Because they are in denial, they don't want to believe that a parent would do such horrific things to their own child- yet some do. Some parents are monsters like Susan Smith for starters.

i think we are all smart enough to realise parents are can be killers.There have been thousands of horrific cases everywhere. But the whole trouble with the ramsay case is evidence supports both theories intruder/ family.I have always thought Patsy and John behaved in a queer manner. But then again so did LE. The fact that they wanted to leave town and lawyed up still grates on me.
i do not know i either way who did this awful act but I hope it was Karr because I want to see Jon Benet's killer bought to justice. I do not feel this is going to happen if it was 'family'. for obvious reasons.
Just my teneth worth.

 

[Pepper]

Not in the genital area!!! I trust my husband to give my daughter baths. His shirt fibers don't end up in her genital area. There is strong evidence that JB was chronically sexually abused. I believe she was the victim of incest.

Still waiting for links to this strong evidence.

Unless you have access to a microscope and a background in examining fiber evidence, you can't possibly know what fibers exist where. In families there is bound to be cross contamination.

 

[Pepper]

Exactly.

And many of these people (not talking about people here) are the same ones who are screaming the R's are innocent until proven guilty, yet they are the first ones to hang this guy (I can't even remember his name-but I am sure we all will once he gets his book deal) out to dry on this. I find that odd. So what if he confessed? There's still a lot of unanswered questions about him and his motives.

I totally agree. I believe the R's are innocent at least until there is enough probably cause and evidence to indict them/him. That's not happening. While I would LOVE to believe that John Karr is the guilty party, until the evidence is presented and the man is indicted, I'm maintaining an open mind about his involvment.

 

[twinkiesmom]

The posters on the warpath claim the anti-Rams contingent only has behavioral evidence, while all they have is a gut feeling that a family such as this wouldn't do such a thing.

In my state, we just had a little girl from an upper middle class family murdered in a heinous fashion (strangled and stabbed and drowned in the family toilet) by her father (no question of factual guilt in this case, although legally presumed innocent at this point). He was a well respected business owner, family man, and Sunday school teacher with no history of violence. The little girl was also molested on the day of her death and a few days earlier. The mother immediately filed for divorce, and he appears to be going down for the crime.

My take...anyone is capable of anything, and you can not let your biases get in the way of the truth.

 

[windovervocalcords]

The posters on the warpath claim the anti-Rams contingent only has behavioral evidence, while all they have is a gut feeling that a family such as this wouldn't do such a thing.

In my state, we just had a little girl from an upper middle class family murdered in a heinous fashion (strangled and stabbed and drowned in the family toilet) by her father (no question of factual guilt in this case, although legally presumed innocent at this point). He was a well respected business owner, family man, and Sunday school teacher with no history of violence. The little girl was also molested on the day of her death and a few days earlier. The mother immediately filed for divorce, and he appears to be going down for the crime.

My take...anyone is capable of anything, and you can not let your biases get in the way of the truth.

I have always thought the Ramsey's behavior was strange and I wait to see the evidence with this fellow who has confessed.

 

[luvbeaches]

i think we are all smart enough to realise parents are can be killers.There have been thousands of horrific cases everywhere. But the whole trouble with the ramsay case is evidence supports both theories intruder/ family.I have always thought Patsy and John behaved in a queer manner. But then again so did LE. The fact that they wanted to leave town and lawyed up still grates on me.
i do not know i either way who did this awful act but I hope it was Karr because I want to see Jon Benet's killer bought to justice. I do not feel this is going to happen if it was 'family'. for obvious reasons.
Just my teneth worth.

Now that's a great post!

Well balanced...and what I feel. IMO, there are many things that point to the R's, and things that don't. I just want justice. If it was one of the R's, then that person needs to be held accountable, and if it is this guy that confessed, or some other dude, then that person should be held accountable.

There's just no way at this time I can give the R's a pass...well, Burke is out of that. I think that poor kid lost his life the same night JonBenet did. But time will tell if this guy that confessed it really the killer. I do hope he is, but I just don't think he is.

 

[luvbeaches]

I totally agree. I believe the R's are innocent at least until there is enough probably cause and evidence to indict them/him. That's not happening. While I would LOVE to believe that John Karr is the guilty party, until the evidence is presented and the man is indicted, I'm maintaining an open mind about his involvment.

I suppose in a week or so (or maybe less), we'll all have our answers about Karr.

 

[luvbeaches]

The posters on the warpath claim the anti-Rams contingent only has behavioral evidence, while all they have is a gut feeling that a family such as this wouldn't do such a thing.

My take...anyone is capable of anything, and you can not let your biases get in the way of the truth.

There's much more than behavioral evidence that I question when it comes to the Ramsey's. There's also a lot of questions I have concerning this guy that confessed.

And those that say a parent with no history couldn't do such a thing...is only kidding themselves. It happens all the time. Just look at the example you posted. Yikes...

 

[Texana]

I've gone over the evidence so many times and I still can't get off the fence. There are things the Ramseys did that are odd, or even guilty-looking, but to me do not rise to the level of evidence of guilt. The crime scene was contaminated. Plus, I know I mix bits and pieces of laundry and so fiber evidence is not conclusive to prove guilt for family. It's conclusive for outsiders, not insiders.

The swaying factor for me to believe one/all/some of the Ramseys were guilty has always been the statistics of parents as killers of their own children--but even that not enough for me to get off the fence.

I am anxious to see what evidence made the authorities bring this guy in.

I'd like to get off the fence, one way or the other.

 

[Wudge]

I suppose in a week or so (or maybe less), we'll all have our answers about Karr.

We might get some information from somewhere. However, if I were the D.A., I would not be releasing evidence prior to trial; i.e., unless a plea bargain was struck.

 

[Wudge]

I've gone over the evidence so many times and I still can't get off the fence. There are things the Ramseys did that are odd, or even guilty-looking, but to me do not rise to the level of evidence of guilt. The crime scene was contaminated. Plus, I know I mix bits and pieces of laundry and so fiber evidence is not conclusive to prove guilt for family. It's conclusive for outsiders, not insiders.

The swaying factor for me to believe one/all/some of the Ramseys were guilty has always been the statistics of parents as killers of their own children--but even that not enough for me to get off the fence.

I am anxious to see what evidence made the authorities bring this guy in.

I'd like to get off the fence, one way or the other.

Just a note, statistics are not evidence.

 

[newtv]

i think we are all smart enough to realise parents are can be killers.There have been thousands of horrific cases everywhere. But the whole trouble with the ramsay case is evidence supports both theories intruder/ family.I have always thought Patsy and John behaved in a queer manner. But then again so did LE. The fact that they wanted to leave town and lawyed up still grates on me.
i do not know i either way who did this awful act but I hope it was Karr because I want to see Jon Benet's killer bought to justice. I do not feel this is going to happen if it was 'family'. for obvious reasons.
Just my teneth worth.

i have no doubt that most of us do believe parents are killers-that doesnt mean we have to think patsy and john are?
I cant believe that people draw conclusions about those who dont agree - I often think the person in the family is the killer-I just dont in this case..I dont find the ramseys to be sainst or sinners..just people who likely were shocked by the lack of control they had over things they were used to controlling.
I think that when u have lots of money u can forget the way that investigations take your rights away-and its a big adjustment - noone knows how they would react if the finger was pointed at them and they knew they didnt do it.

 

[Saffron]

Unfortunately there have been cases where children are not safe from intruders in their own homes - remember Jessica Lunsford and Danielle VanDam?

...and Elizabeth Smart and Polly Klaas.

I dont find the ramseys to be sainst or sinners..just people who likely were shocked by the lack of control they had over things they were used to controlling.
I think that when u have lots of money u can forget the way that investigations take your rights away-and its a big adjustment - noone knows how they would react if the finger was pointed at them and they knew they didnt do it.

I agree with this.

 

[michelle]

...and Elizabeth Smart and Polly Klaas.

Dont forget Jacolyn dawoliby. That poor girl, I dont know who in the heck killed her, nor do I think they will ever know.

 

[Saffron]

Dont forget Jacolyn dawoliby. That poor girl, I dont know who in the heck killed her, nor do I think they will ever know.

I haven't heard of this child, but how sad.

 

[scandi]

Hi Newtv,

I do agree with you my dear friend for how many years? Well, ever since Laci had been missing a few months. Seems like yesterday.

But I have to say something that the posters here will not understand. Now that we know what we do, being very up to date I think with what is happening presently in the case, and agree that the Ramseys are victims too, why did they react like they did?

I think John, told by that lady cop to go search the house, and I think knowing that the police had not searched the wine cellar, went down and found her. He lifted the blanket up and saw what had been done to his girle and his first instinct was to pick her up and cradle her in his arms and carry her to safety. I think he had a hard time carrying her because she was in rigor, but he set her on the floor, ETA:and then he moved her again, as he didn't like where he had put her.

He didn't think about police protocol and the chain of evidence. The cop had said go see if you can find her, search the house. It was her job to uphold protocol and she failed miserably. She said later it was too traumatic a situation, or something like that. She failed JonBenet miserably, the one for whom justice she was bound to uphold.

And I think when push came to shove, and they as her parents were suddenly the object of suspicion, there was a point to where they said, that is enough to bear. The average Joe would have said f*ck you to the police who hounded them and tried to find a reason to find them guilty. Considering what they were put through, the humility of being accused of murdering their daughter in a tormentuous and disgusting way, they did show their true colors.

Patsy, she often sounded and acted like she was under medication when she went on the air and was interviewed. John, he was stalwart. A proud father who never deviated from standing behind his wife and always prepared himself for another day of living under the threat of suspicion.

The sicko who murdered JonBenet must have had some grudge against John, at least that is what I read between the lines in the ransom note. Maybe not personal, but from a bussiness or decision making standpoint. Forgetting all the problems John and Patsy had in their marriage before JonBenet was murdered, which were real ones that could drive any marriage apart, they stayed together, agreeing to defend themselves in the best way they could to prove to everyone they were innocent and a child molester and killer was still stalking the land. At that time they did have money. And I think they did the right thing to do everything they could do to uphold their innocence.


Scandi

ETA: wonder if Marc Klass would agree with me?

 

[dottierainbow]

I believe the Ramseys are innocent but I am not screaming or slandering, or bashing anyone being guilty. I'm glad he is being brought in for questioning. I'm glad the D.A. is not saying too much so they may process things correctly instead of through the media.There is too much hate in this world.I'm not hanging anyone.
Amy

Exactly.

And many of these people (not talking about people here) are the same ones who are screaming the R's are innocent until proven guilty, yet they are the first ones to hang this guy (I can't even remember his name-but I am sure we all will once he gets his book deal) out to dry on this. I find that odd. So what if he confessed? There's still a lot of unanswered questions about him and his motives.

 

[kcksum]

JB is the victim, NOT John. He was never cleared from suspicion. The family is always looked at first because 75% of the time they are guilty. I heard that statistic on a news magazine last night. I would love to believe that no father would do such things to their daughter, but I'm not naive. His past losses are irrelevant to his guilt, so is Patsy's having cancer. A criminal is still a criminal even if they die of cancer.

where is tricia on this one!!! YOu just nailed wudge for saying Klass was rude, but you;re allowing this person to totally call John and Patsy the Murderers of their own child when they have never been convicted in a court of law. That is the only thing that has ever bothered me a tad about this site. In no other forum on this web site can anyone bash the family members of the victims. No other but this one. There were people here doing cheers the day Patsy Ramsey died of cancer, it was disgusting. No one admonishes that behavior at all, but yet you can't say a word about anyone else who lost their child in a violent crime. I just don't understand the bias.....these people were cleared by a grand jury and have never been convicted and yet people are allowed to post them as baby killers on this forum. Can you imagine if this stuff went on at Natalie Holloways site? geez!:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[Wudge]

Hi Newtv,

I do agree with you my dear friend for how many years? Well, ever since Laci had been missing a few months. Seems like yesterday.

But I have to say something that the posters here will not understand. Now that we know what we do, being very up to date I think with what is happening presently in the case, and agree that the Ramseys are victims too, why did they react like they did?

I think John, told by that lady cop to go search the house, and I think knowing that the police had not searched the wine cellar, went down and found her. He lifted the blanket up and saw what had been done to his girle and his first instinct was to pick her up and cradle her in his arms and carry her to safety. I think he had a hard time carrying her because she was in rigor, but he set her on the floor, ETA:and then he moved her again, as he didn't like where he had put her.

He didn't think about police protocol and the chain of evidence. The cop had said go see if you can find her, search the house. It was her job to uphold protocol and she failed miserably. She said later it was too traumatic a situation, or something like that. She failed JonBenet miserably, the one for whom justice she was bound to uphold.

And I think when push came to shove, and they as her parents were suddenly the object of suspicion, there was a point to where they said, that is enough to bear. The average Joe would have said f*ck you to the police who hounded them and tried to find a reason to find them guilty. Considering what they were put through, the humility of being accused of murdering their daughter in a tormentuous and disgusting way, they did show their true colors.

Patsy, she often sounded and acted like she was under medication when she went on the air and was interviewed. John, he was stalwart. A proud father who never deviated from standing behind his wife and always prepared himself for another day of living under the threat of suspicion.

The sicko who murdered JonBenet must have had some grudge against John, at least that is what I read between the lines in the ransom note. Maybe not personal, but from a bussiness or decision making standpoint. Forgetting all the problems John and Patsy had in their marriage before JonBenet was murdered, which were real ones that could drive any marriage apart, they stayed together, agreeing to defend themselves in the best way they could to prove to everyone they were innocent and a child molester and killer was still stalking the land. At that time they did have money. And I think they did the right thing to do everything they could do to uphold their innocence.


Scandi

ETA: wonder if Marc Klass would agree with me?

Scandi, I closely follwed the case from day one. Far more than anything else, the Ramsey's lawyering up was the seminal event that powered the widespread belief that one or more of the Ramseys killed JonBenet.