Max Shacknai EMS Report

[screecher]

i'd just like to say i'm thankful rebecca was as close by and as vigilant as she was. Because of the quick actions of both rebecca and her sister, max had ems care and transport literally within minutes. If she had been in the garage, or elsewhere on the property outside, or sleeping with earplugs in, or otherwise unavailable, max could have laid there much longer.

She may not have been perfect-- none of us are, but from every single indication, and every single comment about her care of max (other than from dina and a few internet posters), she and max were as close as any longterm gf and her partner's son could be.

There is no indication that she was in any way negligent in her care of max that morning, or any other time.

What i see is a concerted attempt by some to make rebecca into either a careless, irresponsible or negligent caregiver who didn't supervise max as he engaged in risky play, or a raging murderer who snapped and assaulted max and pushed him to his death.that is character assassination, no mater how you process it. Rebecca cared for this little boy-- she went out of her way to make sure he had healthy meals, etc.

I just cannot understand the deep seated hatred for rebecca from anyone except dina, and perhaps her loyal twin sister.

<modsnip>
for all intents and purposes, rebecca was a stepmother to max. A common-law stepmother. Not a nanny, not a babysitter.

Max apparently didn't view her as a babysitter, either.

And, btw, what a fantastic "problem" to have that the child's soon-to-be stepmother is so interested in the child and connected to his daily activities that she wants to attend his school events? I've read that she regularly picked him up from school, and took him to soccer practice. She didn't have to do any of that. Jonah could have hired help to do that. So i think it speaks very strongly of her interest and committment to max.

And to tie all this back to the ems record, she was there, rapidly, and doing whatever she was emotionally and physically able to do. The police report describes her very upset and crying at his side. She cared about, and probably loved this young boy. She was not indifferent to his devastating condition. <modsnip>.

i also want to put in a plug for the ems paramedics. They faced a cluster of really challenging issues with this run, and they functioned rapidly, and problem solved efficiently. They faced a more serious situation than the dispatch had lead them to expect, they faced and solved several life saving problems with equipment (intra osseous placement; frustrations with airway management), and still gave max the absolute best chance for survival, with their rapid assessment and adherence to acls protocols. Max was essentially dead at the scene-- these individuals fought to regain a pulse and vital signs when that hope was very, very dim. They spent only 14 min at the scene, and continued to resuscitate him enroute to the nearest hospital.

I'm proud of their efforts. I'm also proud of xz's efforts with the 911 call snippet we heard. What a horrific situation for a 13 yo. I wish dina and jonah had been emotionally able to make a public statement together to thank ems for their efforts. And to thank rebecca and her sister for their rapid notification of ems. And to thank rady docs, nurses, and ancillary personnel for their efforts.

Falls account for more than 1/3 of all fatal accidents in the home. Except for rebecca's very suspicious death just 24 hours later, and the wealth and notoriety of jonah shacknai, i think that max's death would have just been a very sad statistic. I firmly believe max's fall was accidental. But i also firmly believe rebecca's death was not a suicide. There is an unquestionable aspect of revenge/ retribution there that defies any concept of suicide, imo.

i agree, zinn. "babysitter" also implies a temporary situation, or officially "delegated" work. I sincerely doubt that every time jonah left the house he asked rebecca if she was available to "babysit" max. They were sharing household duties and acting in every way as a committed couple and family.

<modsnip>. She provided the care of a loving stepmother, just without the piece of paper to say they were married.

Heck-- even the ems report says the call was activated by family members. Presumably, rebecca didn't identify herself to paramedics as "the babysitter." paramedics didn't even view rebecca as a babysitter-- despite the obvious racial difference, they still considered her family.

bravo k_z.

 

[Salem]

STOP with all this back and forth bickering. If you are going to bicker, don't post. Don't make statements about how someone else's thinking is "wrong."

If you disagree - then DON'T engage the poster. Move past the post and skip the conversation. This is NOT hard guys.

Salem

 

[bourne]

I really doubt that Jonah had plans to marry Rebecca.......he really wasn't all that keen on marrying Dina, and didn't tell any of his friends that they were married. Friends only found out after Dina started to introduce herself as Mrs. Shacknai about a year after their courthouse wedding. And for their Coronado wedding, Jonah invited not one person.

There were reports that Jonah gave Rebecca an engagement ring. Are those reports false?

 

[Inparadise]

There were reports that Jonah gave Rebecca an engagement ring. Are those reports false?

No engagement ring that I know of.

 

[katydid23]

There were reports that Jonah gave Rebecca an engagement ring. Are those reports false?

All I remember is a friend of theirs saying he THOUGHT that Jonah was getting ready to propose.

 

[Inparadise]

All I remember is a friend of theirs saying he THOUGHT that Jonah was getting ready to propose.

The articles (RadarOnline and Mail Online) say that a close friend of Jonah's said that he planned on proposing.......it was a a very serious relationship.....there was a lot of love there. IMO, since this was released the day after the information about the DV between Jonah and Dina was released, it was nothing more than PR Spin

 

[K_Z]

http://news.msn.com/science-technology/cpr-not-as-effective-as-television-portrays

According to Murray, a recent study found that of about 95,000 cases in which CPR had been performed in Japan in a single year, at the end of that year only 3 percent "had what you would call a good outcome, that is a return to a meaningful quality of life." About 3 percent wound up in a chronic vegetative state, and another 2 percent lingered in an in-between phase — not brain-dead but not functional.

The remaining 92 percent, he said, were dead.

CPR is only useful when the heart stops because of a temporary problem that can be reversed or treated, not from trauma like a car accident, David Newman, director of clinical research in the department of medicine at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York, told the Washington Post. "Cardiac arrest from traumatic injuries is not a survivable condition. Even when we say it 'works,' what that means is that the heart is back and instead of dying then, they die later in ICU with many tubes and wires."

 

[*Lash*]

Interesting read, KZ!

You would think Dr. Peterson would know the above information? According to Nina, Dr. Peterson allegedly made the comment there was no way Max received CPR in 2 minutes. Wouldn't a doctor of his prestige know the percentages of effectiveness w/CPR? It seems to me this information is not that 'new'. Maybe new percentages, but not the overall knowledge of a patients outcome.

NINA: So it was a, Max had a consult on Wednesday and this was really, this was after Rebecca had passed, that he had this cardiac consult and that he had a MRI to find out the extent of the damage Wednesday morning was when we found out, Wednesday morning afternoon was when we found out the actual extent of the damage. And it was shocking. Just to back up a little bit, when my sister told me a little bit about what happened to with what happened to Rebecca, the first thing that was said was, why she hung herself with what? We don't even know what's going on with Max, what do what are you talking about what? It was very bizarre, it was very very bizarre. And we found out Wednesday the extent of his damage, which was that his brain was gone. So, then Thursday Dr. Peterson had a meeting with Dina and Jonah and said that the extent of the damage in Max's brain there was no way that he could have had CPR within 2 minutes, it was impossible to have had CPR within 2 minutes without any oxygen it was impossible so my sister said what could cause this? What could cause a 6 year old to go into full cardiac arrest, a healthy 6 year old to go into full cardiac arrest. And he said its possible suffocation. And that's how it came up.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

 

[Carioca]

K_Z, Excellent comments above. Thank you.

Emergency timeline morning July 11, 2001

10:10 - XZ calls 911
10:12 - Officer Erhard (CPD) arrives on scene; gives dispatch correct address; alerts fire department
10:16 - EMS arrives at scene
10:18 - EMS began CPR and ACLS interventions
10:30 - EMS leaves scene
10:36 - Arrives at Sharp Coronado Hospital

Officer Erhard stated he found RZ in total despair leaning over little Max. Why didn't Officer Erhard take over and perform CPR on Max? He arrived on the scene 2 minutes after the 911 call and 4 minutes before EMS. Why aren't Dina and Nina accusing Erhard of negligence?

If CPR is started within 4 minutes of collapse and defibrillation provided within 10 minutes a person has a 40% chance of survival.
http://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/facts.html

As to when Becky began being referred to as the "babysitter," IMO it was fueled by the Daily Beast September 10, 2011 article by the IMO extremely biased "defense attorney of the rich and famous" Roy Black. Reviewing the article today and noting much information later proven to be false, it is clear his article was mouth fed by Gore and Shacknai PR (Roy Black Max Shacknai babysitter Rebecca Zahau's death no murder) in at attempt to diminish Becky's position within the household:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...rebecca-zahau-s-death-no-murder.html#comments

 

[bourne]

Interesting read, KZ!

You would think Dr. Peterson would know the above information? According to Nina, Dr. Peterson allegedly made the comment there was no way Max received CPR in 2 minutes. Wouldn't a doctor of his prestige know the percentages of effectiveness w/CPR? It seems to me this information is not that 'new'. Maybe new percentages, but not the overall knowledge of a patients outcome.

NINA: So it was a, Max had a consult on Wednesday and this was really, this was after Rebecca had passed, that he had this cardiac consult and that he had a MRI to find out the extent of the damage Wednesday morning was when we found out, Wednesday morning afternoon was when we found out the actual extent of the damage. And it was shocking. Just to back up a little bit, when my sister told me a little bit about what happened to with what happened to Rebecca, the first thing that was said was, why she hung herself with what? We don't even know what's going on with Max, what do what are you talking about what? It was very bizarre, it was very very bizarre. And we found out Wednesday the extent of his damage, which was that his brain was gone. So, then Thursday Dr. Peterson had a meeting with Dina and Jonah and said that the extent of the damage in Max's brain there was no way that he could have had CPR within 2 minutes, it was impossible to have had CPR within 2 minutes without any oxygen it was impossible so my sister said what could cause this? What could cause a 6 year old to go into full cardiac arrest, a healthy 6 year old to go into full cardiac arrest. And he said its possible suffocation. And that's how it came up.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

Those are very damaging words Nina attributed to Dr. Peterson. I can't wait to see whether Max's medical reports confirm what Nina claims Dr. Peterson stated re: how there was "no way that he [Max] could have had CPR within 2 minutes" and that "it's possible suffocation". I have a strong inkling that he said neither and that when the facts come out, Nina will backpedal and claim "misinterpretation".

 

[bourne]

K_Z, Excellent comments above. Thank you.

Emergency timeline morning July 11, 2001

10:10 - XZ calls 911
10:12 - Officer Erhard (CPD) arrives on scene; gives dispatch correct address; alerts fire department
10:16 - EMS arrives at scene
10:18 - EMS began CPR and ACLS interventions
10:30 - EMS leaves scene
10:36 - Arrives at Sharp Coronado Hospital

Officer Erhard stated he found RZ in total despair leaning over little Max. Why didn't Officer Erhard take over and perform CPR on Max? He arrived on the scene 2 minutes after the 911 call and 4 minutes before EMS. Why aren't Dina and Nina accusing Erhard of negligence?



As to when Becky began being referred to as the "babysitter," IMO it was fueled by the Daily Beast September 10, 2011 article by the IMO extremely biased "defense attorney of the rich and famous" Roy Black. Reviewing the article today and noting much information later proven to be false, it is clear his article was mouth fed by Gore and Shacknai PR (Roy Black Max Shacknai babysitter Rebecca Zahau's death no murder) in at attempt to diminish Becky's position within the household:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...rebecca-zahau-s-death-no-murder.html#comments

B&UBM. Because Dina and her fraternal twin Nina selectively chooses to indict Becky and the Zahaus likely out of their long-term resentment and jealousy of Becky. The EMT and other medical staff do not fit their preconceived agendas.

Re: "babysitter" reference to Becky. I don't think it's Jonah's PR team who initiated this minimizing, reductionist term regarding Becky's status because Jonah (and his PR) would want to maximize his positive relationship with Becky in order to cast Jonah as a gentleman who loved and cared about Becky and who would not want Becky harmed because of their close, loving, peaceful relationship. I specifically recall there was an article that came out which attested to their peaceful relationship soon after Becky's suspicious death but for the life of me, I can't seem to find it online anymore.

No, the only ones who would denigrate Becky in her death would be those who hated her with intensity while she was alive, and that would be Becky's murderers who were jealous of Becky's relationship with Jonah.

 

[MyBelle]

B&UBM. Because Dina and her fraternal twin Nina selectively chooses to indict Becky and the Zahaus likely out of their long-term resentment and jealousy of Becky. The EMT and other medical staff do not fit their preconceived agendas.

Re: "babysitter" reference to Becky. I don't think it's Jonah's PR team who initiated this minimizing, reductionist term regarding Becky's status because Jonah (and his PR) would want to maximize his positive relationship with Becky in order to cast Jonah as a gentleman who loved and cared about Becky and who would not want Becky harmed because of their close, loving, peaceful relationship. I specifically recall there was an article that came out which attested to their peaceful relationship soon after Becky's suspicious death but for the life of me, I can't seem to find it online anymore.

No, the only ones who would denigrate Becky in her death would be those who hated her with intensity while she was alive, and that would be Becky's murderers who were jealous of Becky's relationship with Jonah.

BBM. I think a far more likely reason for their opinions is that Max's family absolutely believe RZ was not only responsible for Max's death but also that her actions after his fall prolonged his suffering. They have found experts who support their opinion. They are entitled to publicly express their opinion just as Natalee Holloway's family expressed their opinions about Joran and his family.

JMO

 

[bourne]

BBM. I think a far more likely reason for their opinions is that Max's family absolutely believe RZ was not only responsible for Max's death but also that her actions after his fall prolonged his suffering. They have found experts who support their opinion. They are entitled to publicly express their opinion just as Natalee Holloway's family expressed their opinions about Joran and his family.

JMO

<mod snip> As I've said time immemorial, everyone is entitled to their opinions. What Dina doesn't have is proof. A so-called "expert report" wherein only one of the two experts, Dr. Melnick, claimed there MAY BE "assault" and that SOMEONE caused a homicide of Max is NOT irrefutable scientific proof that Becky and/or XZ did anything to Max. Sorry any way you look at it, Dina has NO scientific or medical proof that links Becky and/or XZ to any harm of Max. Furthermore, when Dr. Melnick showed her face on Dr. Phil, when challenged by Dr. Wecht on live tv, she backpedalled and outright stated that she didn't conclude Max's death was homicide after all.

Nevertheless, I cannot wait for the disclosure of Max's medical records should a wrongful death suit be pursued. I think we will find the expert medical opinions of the doctors involved in Max's care immediately following his injury to be significantly different from what Dina and her purported "expert report" have claimed in the media.

 

[K_Z]

Along this line of discussion, I also find AZlawyer's new comments in the legal questions thread to be very, very interesting. Quite illuminating, in fact-- nearly a "bombshell".

Paraphrasing what AZlawyer said about my questions about Dina having access to Max's medical records, 2 parts of AZlawyer's answer are stunning:

1. According to AZlawyer, if there isn't any court order to the contrary, Dina has had full access to Max's entire medical record all along, irrespective of needing Jonah's permission.

AND

2. Dina has been free to release ANY portion of the medical record to the public, or whomever she wishes to. WITHOUT Jonah's permission or approval, unless there is a court order to the contrary.

AND

3. Dina has CHOSEN to NOT support ANY of her accusations with any EVIDENCE from the medical record, OR state that a court order prohibits her from releasing the information.

Personally, I think that's as close to a bombshell as we have been in a long time in this case.

Excepting the EMS run record she posted publicly, which backfired when she realized that the record solidly documents a cardiac arrest secondary to massive blunt head trauma -- which every single reference and statistical study that exists states is almost never a survivable situation. There is simply no way any of the staff at Rady held out unreasonable hope that he would wake up and be neurologically intact enough to only need a tutor, or be able to play soccer in a few weeks or months. I believe that she may not have HEARD or accepted the truth of his situation in her shock, but no way do I believe that what she has said is the truth. IMO, intense grief and rage and hate are pretty potent motivators for revenge. And I believe strongly that grief, rage, and hate produced Becky's cruel and gruesome murder. So what is in Max's medical records is pretty important, IMO. The record not only tells the story of what happened to Max, but it also lays out the timeline of who knew what and when, and who was where at what time.


Many months ago I posted that if Dina is sincere about wanting to know what happened to Max, she would seek help from a neutral source (neutral meaning NOT hired by her) to establish a panel of medical experts to review the medical record and comment. For maximum credibility, Dina and her supporters should have no input into who the panel of experts would be, imo.

One possible way to do this is to ask her talk show contacts for help. Dr. Phil or Dr. Drew would very likely help Dina in this endeavor, imo, with the panel discussion of their results taped as an episode. It would cost Dina absolutely nothing, and she would have input from SEVERAL experts-- neurosurgeons, pedes radiologists, etc. But it's also pretty likely that Dina would not like anything the panel would have to say, because I seriously doubt they would support any of her theories.

So I guess I can conclude that Dina isn't really interested in the truth-- only her own version of what happened.

 

[bourne]

I agree K_Z, Dina not backing up her claims in her "expert report" and in the media with public disclosure of Max's medical records is very telling, and mean only one thing: his medical records do NOT support her statements and accusatory "expert, irrefutable, scientific" opinions against Becky and XZ.

This is why I don't believe she will pursue a wrongful death suit against Becky's estate or XZ. Dina is deathly afraid of what Max's medical records will reveal about WHEN she knew about Max's dire prognosis (which I believe was Monday when he was braindead and put on artificial respirator), and also that Dr. Peterson did NOT accuse Becky of child abuse and suffocation of Max.

I think Dina's statements that on "Friday" when she learned Max would never recover she thought Max "would only need a tutor" and would be able to "play soccer again" were utterly ridiculous. This woman's exaggerations are beyond absurd and illogical.

 

[*Lash*]

I agree, Maxie's medical records hold very important facts in what really happened to Becky.

If you wanted the public to believe your son was assaulted and it was not an accident, why would you release photographs and not the actual medical records to support your case? Photographs have more of a shock value and in my opinion that is why they were released in this case. Many conclusions can be drawn by looking at a photograph, however supported by actual documentation builds a much stronger case. Dina's expert reports were opinions based on what they reviewed, why not let the public review the same material? Again, would it not help support her cause? In my opinion, not releasing Maxie's medical files and a certain website used as supporting material in an experts report both create reasonable doubt that what has been released is likely not the whole story.

Don't get me wrong, I truly understand Dina wanting to protect her sons privacy. What I don't understand is the choice in privacy. In my opinion, Maxie's hospital photos would be what I would protect the most, not his medical files. The images are so very sad and personal. Maybe I do understand that the choice depends on your motive. Which also follows to reason why Dina chose to release the EMS report. In my opinion, her choices are strictly motive driven leaving no room for objectivity.

 

[K_Z]

I was very, very disturbed by Dina posting Maxie's ICU pics. I strongly feel that the manner in which Dina chose to post/ release those pictures was reckless and highly exploitative. I disagree that any conclusions can be drawn by looking at pics taken in an icu. We don't have any information, context, or references in which to interpret what we "think" we see in those pictures. Or what Dina says she wants us to see in the pictures, other than a little boy heartbreakingly broken. The general public cannot, and should not (IMO) draw any conclusions from those pics, except that he was being treated in an ICU for his injuries, and he looked awful.

People who have suffered massive trauma to the head and face and survive extended cardiac arrest and transport to be treated in an ICU look absolutely awful-- often their own family members can't recognize them. There is always bruising, edema, third spacing of tissue fluids, and many other medical and physiological sequelae that distort their appearance. Max sustained a tremendous blunt force fall trauma to the head, extended cardiac arrest, 2 EMS transports, and huge amounts of therapy (fluids and tubes, trauma inserting devices, skin tears from fluid filled fragile skin, bruising and edema from tubes and therapies, multiple physiological derangements, etc. I don't think any conclusions about his injuries can be drawn from the horrible and very sad pics Dina chose to post. Those pictures were exploitative, IMO. Rather than provide any kind of realistic or proper context for the pics, Dina simply recklessly posted them in a public forum, and provided them to media. And then provided her own interpretation and commentary. Posting those pictures was, IMO, not an act of love by a grieving mother.

 

[stmarysmead]

The pictures reminded me of Jackie Kennedy's blood stained suit as she disembarked from Air Force One on theday of the Assassination. She was asked if she wanted to change and replied,"No, let them see what they have done to Jack."

I prayMax's grieving Mother goes on to have a rich and fulfilling life.

There are very few regular posters left on this topic...that says something loud and clear.

 

[MyBelle]

The pictures reminded me of Jackie Kennedy's blood stained suit as she disembarked from Air Force One on theday of the Assassination. She was asked if she wanted to change and replied,"No, let them see what they have done to Jack."

I prayMax's grieving Mother goes on to have a rich and fulfilling life.

There are very few regular posters left on this topic...that says something loud and clear.

The public should be outraged that Max's case was never investigated as a homicide. The child deserves justice.

JMO

 

[bourne]

The pictures reminded me of Jackie Kennedy's blood stained suit as she disembarked from Air Force One on theday of the Assassination. She was asked if she wanted to change and replied,"No, let them see what they have done to Jack."

I prayMax's grieving Mother goes on to have a rich and fulfilling life.

There are very few regular posters left on this topic...that says something loud and clear.

Hmm, I pray that BOTH Becky and Max have peace, love and joy in heaven and that those who did harm to either children of God be justly punished. I pray also that all family members of the deceased find peace as well. Unlike some people, I want justice for ALL victims.