Max's Death - Dina's Independent Experts Summary Reports

[time]

Quester ... exactly!!:hills:

I don't think a secret like that will be kept forever. If it's true, then part of what I said earlier could also be. Dina was even more furious and suspicious because she thought something was being kept from her. But why wouldn't she have figured it out by now. And, if she did then why didn't she file a civil suit against Jonah and ask to depose the kids?

 

[Quester]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/594701/thumbs/s-SPLASHWEEKINART54-large.jpg

I sure wish I knew the answers to those and the many unanswered questions in these two cases!

 

[coastal]

JS and his older kids were there when max was injured, along with some town kids......this will all come out in depositions.

I got distracted by the thought of those kids up on the balcony.

I remember the discussions about the older Shacknai offspring and the timing of their flight home. I remember Inparadise's conviction that they were still at the beach house when Maxie fell, and I remember realizing that there was no way to prove where they were without their parents' cooperation and honesty. I remember speculating as to Jonah's whereabouts, and that it is a fact that no one has come forward to back up his version of the events of that morning, but the official story has him at the gym, according to various sources in MSM. AFAIK, LE believes this, too.

What I don't remember is hearing it put quite this plainly: Jonah, his older kids, and "some local kids" were all there, together with Rebecca and XZ and, of course, Maxie, when he fell.

Wow.

 

[*Lash*]

I agree the one way to prove or disprove this theory is to provide boarding passes for the older Shacknai children.

Questioning XZ would be another way to prove/disprove. If the older Shacknai and "other" local children where home at the time wouldn't XZ have known this? Of course she could have been sleeping. Is it being suggested XZ is covering up what really happened too?

Here's a question? If all these kids were there at the time of Maxie's accident, what really happened that needed covered up? Why whisk the kids away, JS lie about the being at gym, stage a scene, RZ cover for JS and create a whole knew story? What happened to Maxie that would cause this large of a coverup?

 

[bourne]

I agree the one way to prove or disprove this theory is to provide boarding passes for the older Shacknai children.

Questioning XZ would be another way to prove/disprove. If the older Shacknai and "other" local children where home at the time wouldn't XZ have known this? Of course she could have been sleeping. Is it being suggested XZ is covering up what really happened too?

Here's a question? If all these kids were there at the time of Maxie's accident, what really happened that needed covered up? Why whisk the kids away, JS lie about the being at gym, stage a scene, RZ cover for JS and create a whole knew story? What happened to Maxie that would cause this large of a coverup?

I don't want to throw a monkey wrench in the boarding passes as evidence teens were present when Max had his accident, but depending on the airlines, if passengers had NO bags to check, the boarding passes could be printed on generic paper from home or anywhere, and would show the "time stamp" of when the boarding passes were PRINTED, not that the teens were physically present at the airport/airline counters.

Even if the Jonah teens had gone to the airport and received their boarding passes there, the boarding passes -- on actual airline receipts rather than generic printer paper from home -- would only show what time they checked in at the airport counter, NOT the actual time the Jonah teens LEFT the Spreckels mansion that Monday.

For example, it's possible that the Jonah teens left the mansion early in the morning, let's say 7am, and were dropped off at the airport by Jonah at 7:30am. If they had no bags to check, the teens would simply wait around the airport, have breakfast, play in the arcade or go on wifi and do facebook, or call their friends, etc. until within an hour or so to their flight and finally go to the airline counter for their boarding passes at let's say 12pm since IIRC their Delta flight leaves at 1pm. So it's possible that the teens had left the Spreckels mansion early Monday but didn't retrieve their boarding passes till within an hour or so to their actual flight departure.

In other words, the boarding passes do not necessarily prove or disprove whether or not the Jonah teens were physically present at the Spreckels mansion. However, if the boarding passes were printed on airline receipts showing the time stamp BEFORE 10am Monday 7/11/2011, then that could be used as a reasonable "proof positive" that the Jonah teens were physically at the airport and could NOT therefore be at the Spreckels mansion at the same time. On the other hand, if the time stamp on the boarding passes was AFTER 10am Monday, that does not necessarily equate to proof that the Jonah teens then HAD TO PHYSICALLY BE at the Spreckels mansion during time of Max's accident (around 10am). Could be, as I stated above, that the Jonah teens were somewhere else or at the airport meandering and waited till the last minute to get their boarding passes printed at 12-1pm Mon just in time for their flight.

 

[bourne]

I personally find it hard to believe that there was a "conspiracy" agreed upon by all the teens -- Jonah's teens and their teen friends -- to keep this big secret that they were physically present at the Spreckels mansion and that Jonah's daughter, GS, was directly involved in Max's accident.

I just don't see how teens would be able to keep their mouths shut and also not be traumatized by what happened to Max and subsequently what happened to Rebecca. One would think (and hope) the teens' parents would notice their strange moods/behaviors in the aftermath of these tragic deaths.

However, since Inparadise sounds certain, I'll suspend my disbelief and wait for the depos.

 

[coastal]

I agree the one way to prove or disprove this theory is to provide boarding passes for the older Shacknai children.

Questioning XZ would be another way to prove/disprove. If the older Shacknai and "other" local children where home at the time wouldn't XZ have known this? Of course she could have been sleeping. Is it being suggested XZ is covering up what really happened too?

Here's a question? If all these kids were there at the time of Maxie's accident, what really happened that needed covered up? Why whisk the kids away, JS lie about the being at gym, stage a scene, RZ cover for JS and create a whole knew story? What happened to Maxie that would cause this large of a coverup?

Great question, *Lash*! If this version of events is correct, I'll have to assume a more sinister cause for Maxie's fall: perhaps he was murdered after all, and "torpedoed" to cover up the crime. In this case, for me, Jonah is the doer, and fear of him, or love for him, cause the coverup. Anything else (planking, roughhousing, etc) and the lie would have broken apart quickly after Maxie died. Until, that is, Rebecca's very violent, very public, and very humiliating death are discovered, at which point the truth becomes whatever he wanted it to be.

I'm not sure I believe this, but I'm not sure I don't.

 

[LoveAlways7]

I agree the one way to prove or disprove this theory is to provide boarding passes for the older Shacknai children.

Questioning XZ would be another way to prove/disprove. If the older Shacknai and "other" local children where home at the time wouldn't XZ have known this? Of course she could have been sleeping. Is it being suggested XZ is covering up what really happened too?

Here's a question? If all these kids were there at the time of Maxie's accident, what really happened that needed covered up? Why whisk the kids away, JS lie about the being at gym, stage a scene, RZ cover for JS and create a whole knew story? What happened to Maxie that would cause this large of a coverup?

What if X is so scared and/or embarrassed that she can't say?

After all, even Rudoy said that the family didn't want to say anything due to the threat by the sheriff to reveal things that would be embarrassing to the family. That's just part of the facts in this case.

 

[*Lash*]

Great question, *Lash*! If this version of events is correct, I'll have to assume a more sinister cause for Maxie's fall: perhaps he was murdered after all, and "torpedoed" to cover up the crime. In this case, for me, Jonah is the doer, and fear of him, or love for him, cause the coverup. Anything else (planking, roughhousing, etc) and the lie would have broken apart quickly after Maxie died. Until, that is, Rebecca's very violent, very public, and very humiliating death are discovered, at which point the truth becomes whatever he wanted it to be.

I'm not sure I believe this, but I'm not sure I don't.

BBM - I'm right there with you. I am open to all theories. It does seem to be a rather large conspiracy, but it doesn't mean it's not what happened. If proven the teens were there, then I postulate something illegal happened and the parties involved were protecting someone. My opinion, I don't believe such a coverup would exist if RZ was the responsible party. I don't see why a planking accident would need such a coverup.

If it is proven the teens were there, my opinions would change regarding JS's involvement in Maxie's accident and in Becky's murder.

As far as proving or disproving the teens whereabouts, the boarding passes may not work, as Bourne suggested. However, at that time in 2011, I imagine there would have been airport video surveillance which is likely gone by now.

 

[*Lash*]

What if X is so scared and/or embarrassed that she can't say?

After all, even Rudoy said that the family didn't want to say anything due to the threat by the sheriff to reveal things that would be embarrassing to the family. That's just part of the facts in this case.

In my opinion, because the Zahua's filed the civil suit, they're not scared or embarrassed of anything. If XZ was there and involved in a cover up, it could come out in depositions. If she was involved in a coverup, someone is in trouble and that person is not deceased.

 

[LoveAlways7]

In my opinion, because the Zahua's filed the civil suit, they're not scared or embarrassed of anything. If XZ was there and involved in a cover up, it could come out in depositions. If she was involved in a coverup, someone is in trouble and that person is not deceased.

But, Lash, Rudoy, the Zahau's own lawyer, said that they would not comment on the case because the sheriff was threatening to release "information embarrassing to the family."

 

[*Lash*]

But, Lash, Rudoy, the Zahau's own lawyer, said that they would not comment on the case because the sheriff was threatening to release "information embarrassing to the family."

Do you think the Zahau's and their attorneys didn't ponder of this before they filed their civil suit? Do you think the attorneys didn't consider counter suits by the defendants? Whatever may be hiding in SDSO's file is not as significant as finding a murderer.

What was said -

"What the letter's trying to say is, if you release something and we don't like your viewpoint -- or the information that you rely on -- then we're putting you on notice that we may come back and release anything that we want; whether it's part of the lawful investigation or simply digging up dirt on the victim," said Cummins.

Attorney Anne Bremner told News 8 that she considers the letter a threat. Her co-counsel, attorney Marty Rudoy, agreed.

"I believe there's an implied threat in the letter that they would release information hurtful to the victim and her family," said Rudoy. "It has chilled our willingness to release relevant information to the media that would help the public determine what happened in this case."

In an emailed response, a Sheriff's spokesperson acknowledged there is personal information in the Sheriff's case file.

"We wanted to state in the strongest possible terms to Miss Bremner some of the materials contained (in the case files) are exceedingly sensitive and personal," wrote Sheriff's spokesperson Jan Caldwell. "We will not release material we would rather keep confidential, unless compelled to do so in response to unfounded or inaccurate assertions."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/16194812/sheriff-warns-zahau-attorney-case-file-may-be-opened

 

[Carioca]

IMO Gore's threats were balderdash, thrown out there in an attempt to muddle RZ's image in the eyes of the public, thus promote his flawed suicide theory. The so-called exceedingly sensitive and personal information could have absolutely nothing to do with Rebecca and her murder. IF there were anything even dimly prejudicial about Rebecca, the statuesque one would have shouted it from the rooftops long ago.

As to the need for the boarding passes in order to prove on which flight the teens embarked: The airline flight manifest would show unequivocally the time and date and flight number. These records are never deleted. They are kept in a permanent archival storage:

"… No CRS (Computerized Reservation system)/GDS (Global Distribution System) or airline hosting system includes a mechanism for truly deleting or purging PNR's pertaining to cancelled or unticketed reservations. A PNR (Passenger Name Record) can be cancelled, but the audit trail or "history" of the PNR, showing when and by whom each entry in the PNR was made, is always retained at least until the last date of an of the reservations, active or cancelled, in the PNR. After that, it's moved to permanent archival storage."

http://hasbrouck.org/articles/PNR.html

 

[justice be served]

I personally find it hard to believe that there was a "conspiracy" agreed upon by all the teens -- Jonah's teens and their teen friends -- to keep this big secret that they were physically present at the Spreckels mansion and that Jonah's daughter, GS, was directly involved in Max's accident.I just don't see how teens would be able to keep their mouths shut and also not be traumatized by what happened to Max and subsequently what happened to Rebecca. One would think (and hope) the teens' parents would notice their strange moods/behaviors in the aftermath of these tragic deaths.

However, since Inparadise sounds certain, I'll suspend my disbelief and wait for the depos.

BBM. I am with you on OTHER teens not being able to keep their mouths shut or being influenced by a powerful person. However, I can easily see that if only the older siblings were at the scene at the time of the fall that they could easily be influenced by their family to keep quiet particularly if it was in their best interests. Especially when their family member is a lawyer and would be relied upon to give prudent advice.

 

[Zoot]

IMO Gore's threats were balderdash, thrown out there in an attempt to muddle RZ's image in the eyes of the public, thus promote his flawed suicide theory. The so-called exceedingly sensitive and personal information could have absolutely nothing to do with Rebecca and her murder. IF there were anything even dimly prejudicial about Rebecca, the statuesque one would have shouted it from the rooftops long ago.

As to the need for the boarding passes in order to prove on which flight the teens embarked: The airline flight manifest would show unequivocally the time and date and flight number. These records are never deleted. They are kept in a permanent archival storage:

"… No CRS (Computerized Reservation system)/GDS (Global Distribution System) or airline hosting system includes a mechanism for truly deleting or purging PNR's pertaining to cancelled or unticketed reservations. A PNR (Passenger Name Record) can be cancelled, but the audit trail or "history" of the PNR, showing when and by whom each entry in the PNR was made, is always retained at least until the last date of an of the reservations, active or cancelled, in the PNR. After that, it's moved to permanent archival storage."

http://hasbrouck.org/articles/PNR.html

I think the only "embarrassing" information they could release was confirmed by JS involvement in bondage which supposedly refutes the murder theory. Maybe there were some pictures or even videos uploaded from her computer.
The family didn't want her to be remembered as stereotypical subservient Asian female, sexually indulging much older white and rich man. After all, Rebecca had tattooed make up, breast implants, worked out diligently to maintained her beautifully toned body, and even her shoplifting episode involved nothing less but jewelry. Her family may simply not want to project such a superficial image of Rebecca, and I think Gore tried to play on it. I am glad the family is moving forward, because no matter what her personal choices were, Rebecca was a beautiful loving human being who was brutally murdered, and her murderer(s) walk free among us.

 

[*Lash*]

IMO Gore's threats were balderdash, thrown out there in an attempt to muddle RZ's image in the eyes of the public, thus promote his flawed suicide theory. The so-called exceedingly sensitive and personal information could have absolutely nothing to do with Rebecca and her murder. IF there were anything even dimly prejudicial about Rebecca, the statuesque one would have shouted it from the rooftops long ago.

As to the need for the boarding passes in order to prove on which flight the teens embarked: The airline flight manifest would show unequivocally the time and date and flight number. These records are never deleted. They are kept in a permanent archival storage:

"… No CRS (Computerized Reservation system)/GDS (Global Distribution System) or airline hosting system includes a mechanism for truly deleting or purging PNR's pertaining to cancelled or unticketed reservations. A PNR (Passenger Name Record) can be cancelled, but the audit trail or "history" of the PNR, showing when and by whom each entry in the PNR was made, is always retained at least until the last date of an of the reservations, active or cancelled, in the PNR. After that, it's moved to permanent archival storage."

http://hasbrouck.org/articles/PNR.html

Thank you for the info on CRS.

I agree Gore's threats were just ANOTHER attempt to make the public think Rebecca and her family had something to hide. I believe not releasing the message on the door attempted to serve that purpose too, along with hiding the killers handwriting.

 

[bourne]

IMO Gore's threats were balderdash, thrown out there in an attempt to muddle RZ's image in the eyes of the public, thus promote his flawed suicide theory. The so-called exceedingly sensitive and personal information could have absolutely nothing to do with Rebecca and her murder. IF there were anything even dimly prejudicial about Rebecca, the statuesque one would have shouted it from the rooftops long ago.

As to the need for the boarding passes in order to prove on which flight the teens embarked: The airline flight manifest would show unequivocally the time and date and flight number. These records are never deleted. They are kept in a permanent archival storage:

"… No CRS (Computerized Reservation system)/GDS (Global Distribution System) or airline hosting system includes a mechanism for truly deleting or purging PNR's pertaining to cancelled or unticketed reservations. A PNR (Passenger Name Record) can be cancelled, but the audit trail or "history" of the PNR, showing when and by whom each entry in the PNR was made, is always retained at least until the last date of an of the reservations, active or cancelled, in the PNR. After that, it's moved to permanent archival storage."

http://hasbrouck.org/articles/PNR.html

I agree that Gore's threats were empty and meaningless. Nonetheless it did stop Anne Bremner from disclosing the entire content of the Zahau files.

Re: CRS PNR, flight manifestos, and boarding pass records. I'm not disagreeing that such records exist and can be easily verified, if LE bothered to check. But that even if they do exist, they don't necessarily confirm or disconfirm that Jonah's teens were not at the airport or elsewhere before checking in with the airline or boarding the plane -- unless the records show that the teens checked in BEFORE 10am Monday. Otherwise, unless the teens are captured on videotapes at the airport or elsewhere, we have no way of knowing whether they were still at the Spreckels mansion during the time of Max's accident around 10am.

 

[Quester]

Could it be the case that DS may never have had any intention of
filing a wrongful death or any other action against a Z,

rather ...

could DS have used the Zs as a scapegoat/s to force the hand
of an S to settle quietly, once and for all?

 

[inthedark14]

Could it be the case that DS may never have had any intention of
filing a wrongful death or any other action against a Z,

rather ...

could DS have used the Zs as a scapegoat/s to force the hand
of an S to settle quietly, once and for all?

OMG...wow...

There would be no way to find out about that would there? It would be entirely closed records. Of course, if a large financial settlement of any kind was made, I'm sure it didn't just go into someone's bank account. Some kind of trust document would have been made, along with recording of any properties put into trust.

Does anyone know if DS has purchased any property?

ALWAYS, MOO

 

[Carioca]

OMG...wow...

There would be no way to find out about that would there? It would be entirely closed records. Of course, if a large financial settlement of any kind was made, I'm sure it didn't just go into someone's bank account. Some kind of trust document would have been made, along with recording of any properties put into trust.

Does anyone know if DS has purchased any property?

ALWAYS, MOO

Or opened an offshore account...