MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[kareylou]

BBM...How do you know this? Maybe the victims in this case are LE too. I agree the court will decide, but if the decision doesn't go the way the protesters think it should, what will happen??

How do I know that he has issues from lead poisoning? He and his siblings won a settlement against the owner of the building they grew up in. It was said in the court papers that levels of lead were found to be high enough to prevent the children from being able to lead functional lives as adults.

I don't think that makes him above the law at all. But I do think it is a pretty well-established fact. Make of it what you will. Some might say it made him more likely to be combative; others that he really never had a chance in life.

Source: numerous MSM articles. I'm trying to link to one, unsuccessfully so far. It is the Baltimore Sun on Sunday, May 3, 2015.

 

[dandy]

When will the public know what's in the toxicology report?

the one i'm interested in is from the e/r . . . wonder if that will be included with the autopsy results?

 

[MissSunshine]

I am coming out of lurkdom because I was away over the weekend and just checked back in on this thread. I have to express how disappointed I am. I thought Websleuths was a victim-friendly website. People on this thread are sleuthing the victim and sleuthing the victim's family. They are bringing all the most unflattering information about the victim and his family into the thread. I thought this was against the TOS. You may not feel that the Freddie Gray deserves the same treatment as other victims on this board, but who is to decide which cases will be the exceptions to the TOS? The moderators, I suppose, as they have decided this is acceptable in this case. I disagree, respectfully and with gratitude for all the work the moderators do here.

Posters are also bringing in all sorts of extraneous topics, such as the number of shootings taking place in Baltimore, and whether black people or white people carry weapons more frequently. There are soooooooooo many places on the internet where you can get into racial discussions. They never end well. In fact, they never end. IMO this thread is starting to resemble the comments section of the less reliable news sources, such as Daily Mail or Yahoo News. I fully expect that next time I check in it will resemble my bitter old uncle's Facebook page. Har har.

Snipped by me since I wrote so much

I agree that Mr. Gray is a victim but, unfortunetly with many high profile cases, the past actions of the victim come out, whether good or bad. Nothing he did in the past justifies what happened to him just as nothing that happened in his past justifies the choices he made in life.

I haven't seen anyone sleuthing his family, maybe I missed it. I saw MSM articles that discussed Mr. Gray's life which talked about his family dynamics. Is it right for them to do that? That I do not know but MSM always seems to do it in these type of situations.

The race thing always seems to come up because that is usually what the protesters are protesting about. I personally don't think it is a race thing but it seems a lot do.

I can only speak myself because I live here but the fact that the violence in Baltimore continues and many people don't bat an eye is troublesome to me. There have been huge protests going on that Lives Matter but where are all these people when almost 300 people die in the streets a year. It kind of boggles my mind. I know police brutality happens, it is wrong and it needs to stop but so does all the other violence. It kind of boggles my mind but this is all just MOO.

Thank you for your insight. Very thought-provoking.

 

[kareylou]

His mother was also on heroin when he was born.

In addition some populations have a natural average IQ in the low to mid 80's.

To which populations are you referring?

 

[Bravo]

IMO we as a Nation need to look at how desensitized we are. We all are. When you throw Police into a Community ridden with crime where they fear for their lives it has to be difficult for them to have compassion they normally would possess if in a middle class neighborhood. I am not excusing but I think we need to look at the human dynamics. Can become "the perfect storm" Unfortunately. So what is the answer? I wish I had one.

 

[DebinGA]

Agree. I didn't get the celebration. So much was lost.
ETA-nobody won here. Nobody

One clear winner is the Fraternal Order of Police, whose membership stats must be going through the roof ever since the Ferguson saga.

 

[katydid23]

I am coming out of lurkdom because I was away over the weekend and just checked back in on this thread. I have to express how disappointed I am. I thought Websleuths was a victim-friendly website. People on this thread are sleuthing the victim and sleuthing the victim's family. They are bringing all the most unflattering information about the victim and his family into the thread. I thought this was against the TOS. You may not feel that the Freddie Gray deserves the same treatment as other victims on this board, but who is to decide which cases will be the exceptions to the TOS? The moderators, I suppose, as they have decided this is acceptable in this case. I disagree, respectfully and with gratitude for all the work the moderators do here.

Posters are also bringing in all sorts of extraneous topics, such as the number of shootings taking place in Baltimore, and whether black people or white people carry weapons more frequently. There are soooooooooo many places on the internet where you can get into racial discussions. They never end well. In fact, they never end. IMO this thread is starting to resemble the comments section of the less reliable news sources, such as Daily Mail or Yahoo News. I fully expect that next time I check in it will resemble my bitter old uncle's Facebook page. Har har.

I am proud to live in a country where the rights and dignity of all persons are respected; it is written right in the Constitution and its amendments. I don't think that I have rights and Freddie Gray had rights; I think that we all have rights as Americans and whenever someone's rights are ignored and they are not treated with the dignity afforded by our Constitution, all of our rights have been violated. Freddie Gray was an American citizen and in our system of law, he had not yet done anything to surrender his rights.
The courts will decide whether these officers committed the crimes they have been charged with. The officers will be entitled to a vigorous defense, and a jury will decide their fate, along with the judge if there should be a sentencing. Freddie Gray deserved his day in court too. (Yes I know he had already had many days in court. It is pretty clear to me that he was an addict, with neurological issues from lead poisoning. But our Constitution does not say that you are entitled to a speedy trial and a vigorous defense UNLESS you are an addict, unless you have prior arrests, etc.) It is not up to us, the arresting officers, or the van driver to decide whether he deserved to live through an arrest.

I would like to say that I am proud of our country's ideals including equal treatment under the law, and I am proud of Websleuths for being the kind of place where rumor-mongering, victim-bashing, and devolving into the same tired political arguments are ordinarily not permitted. Everyone else has politicized this man's horrible death; maybe we could be the exception?

JMO of course.

Personally, I feel the number of daily shootings taking place in Baltimore is relevant to the discussion here. The decision by the cops to chase a fleeing suspect or frisk someone is not made in a vacuum. Cops are being shot across the country nearly every day right now. It is something that is on their minds when they decide if they should Tackle and cuff someone or not. The issues of police brutality and gang violence are closely related, sadly enough.
FG is the victim in this case. But the other issues we are discussing have a bearing upon the tragedy. JMO :cow:

 

[katydid23]

Maybe his legs hadn't been shackled before. If not, even with his hands in handcuffs, he could have used his feet and legs to brace himself if he was getting bounced around from not being seat belted before. But with his hands in handcuffs and his feet shackled, he was helpless as far as bracing himself from bouncing around this time. Just a thought.

That is what I don't understand. WHY this time was he shackled? The driver said in the Daily Mail article that thre is audio of him asking the cops to meet him at the next stop to do something about his behavior. What was he doing to make them want to shackle his legs this time, as opposed to the previous dozens of arrests? I am very curious about that.

 

[bettybaby00]

the one i'm interested in is from the e/r . . . wonder if that will be included with the autopsy results?

It could very well be included. I've mentioned previously I've heard of cases like this (critical injury where death occurs days or weeks later) and the blood drawn by the hospital is used during autopsy.


At the very least, the tox,screen from the hospital will be "attached" or noted in the MEs report.

 

[ShadyLady]

That is what I don't understand. WHY this time was he shackled? The driver said in the Daily Mail article that thre is audio of him asking the cops to meet him at the next stop to do something about his behavior. What was he doing to make them want to shackle his legs this time, as opposed to the previous dozens of arrests? I am very curious about that.

I wonder how many people will now be claiming LE abuse after the millions of dollars paid out in suits. Even when there was no abuse. Something is seriously wrong with the political leaders in Baltimore. This is a mess. Who would want to insure any business even willing to open up shop there, when property is not protected for political reasons. I feel for the hard working, law abiding citizens that are trapped there.

 

[kaen]

I see victims as victims, regardless of past, IQ, gender, if they were engaged in behaviors that were "asking for it" or race. I see prosecutors as the victims voice in the legal process. Regardless of the events of the past week, FG dies without being able to take care of himself as he was shackled and handcuffed. He asked for help, received none. He deserves to have his case heard in court. If the accused are found guilty, so be it. If they are found innocent, so be it.

The veiled comments on race are offensive to me. So, please stop.

 

[iluvmua]

I'm going to wait until the tox reports come out.

I do feel these 6 were way overcharged.

 

[DebinGA]

Baltimore Mayor R-B became mayor in early 2010 without an election, when, as City Council President, she was elevated by law to replace Mayor Sheila Dixon, who resigned as part of a plea deal to avoid jail:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politi...yor-Sheila-Dixon-resigns-as-part-of-plea-deal

Dixon, already convicted of stealing gift cards donated for the city's poor and facing another trial, resigned with her $83,000 yearly pension intact and no conviction showing on her record. Another condition was that she had to wait 2 yrs. before running for mayor again. Sheesh.

 

[ohreally]

People in the affected areas who are having difficulty obtaining prescription medication should call 311 and ask that the Baltimore City Health Department help locate the nearest open pharmacy to have their prescriptions transferred. Medicine can be delivered to those with transportation issues or limited mobility.



The following pharmacies are closed until further notice:

** CVS at 2509 Pennsylvania Avenue

** CVS at 2560 West Franklin Street

** Rite Aid at 238 McMechen Street

** Rite Aid at 2043 Mondawmin Mall

** Rite Aid at 2497 Frederick Avenue

** Rite Aid at 3425 Clifton Avenue

** Rite Aid at 423 East North Avenue

** Rite Aid at 250 West Chase Street

** Rite Aid at 1521 Harford Avenue

** Rite Aid at 300 Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard

** Target at 3251 Tioga Parkway

** Keystone Pharmacy at 1358 W North Ave

** Breathe4Sure Pharmacy at 643 N. Carey Street

http://foxbaltimore.com/m/news/feat...y-destruction-and-violence.shtml#.VUaaoRDD_qA

While the CVS was the one they kept showing on the news, many more were completely destroyed. At least they are helping people get their meds.

WOW!!!! I don't even know what to say, other than I don't blame the pharmacies.

 

[sorrell skye]

His mother was also on heroin when he was born.

In addition some populations have a natural average IQ in the low to mid 80's.

To which populations are you referring?

Google it. I don't think links on the topic would be allowed here but the info is widely available.

BBM

Which populations have a so-called "natural average IQ in the low to mid 80's"?

Surely this can't be referring to those who have suffered the detrimental neurological effect of lead poisoning - as that would not be considered a "natural average IQ".

Since you brought it up, those of us who wonder to whom you're referring are asking a valid question.

To whom are you referring? Is the BBM a veiled racist comment?

 

[epiphany]

BBM

Which populations have a so-called "natural average IQ in the low to mid 80's"?

Surely this can't be referring to those who have suffered the detrimental neurological effect of lead poisoning - as that would not be considered a "natural average IQ".

Since you brought it up, those of us who wonder to whom you're referring are asking a valid question.

To whom are you referring? Is the BBM a veiled racist comment?

I'd have to possess an IQ in the mid 80s or below to consider this a veiled racist comment.

IOW, it's not veiled, it's downright obvious and quite clear which pop is being referred to.

 

[ShadyLady]

Baltimore Mayor R-B became mayor in early 2010 without an election, when, as City Council President, she was elevated by law to replace Mayor Sheila Dixon, who resigned as part of a plea deal to avoid jail:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politi...yor-Sheila-Dixon-resigns-as-part-of-plea-deal

Dixon, already convicted of stealing gift cards donated for the city's poor and facing another trial, resigned with her $83,000 yearly pension intact and no conviction showing on her record. Another condition was that she had to wait 2 yrs. before running for mayor again. Sheesh.

SO.....it pays to be a crook in Baltimore. Just wow.

Earlier in the day, Dixon had entered an Alford plea to one count of perjury – a charge related to prosecutors’ assertion that she had failed to disclose gifts from her former boyfriend and prominent Baltimore developer, Ronald Lipscomb. The Alford plea means that although Dixon does not admit guilt, she recognizes that prosecutors have enough evidence to convict her.

Government contracts to her boyfriend??

 

[epiphany]

And it just might get the thread shut down

 

[Rocco]

That is what I don't understand. WHY this time was he shackled? The driver said in the Daily Mail article that thre is audio of him asking the cops to meet him at the next stop to do something about his behavior. What was he doing to make them want to shackle his legs this time, as opposed to the previous dozens of arrests? I am very curious about that.

Hmmm...let me see here now. :thinking:

Maybe the other times he was arrested, he was caught red handed doing something illegal and he was upset that he got caught. But this time, he wasn't caught doing really anything (except running from the police) so he was absolutely furious that he was going to jail and acted out in a fashion that was much worse than before.

 

[kaen]

SO.....it pays to be a crook in Baltimore. Just wow.

It pays in many other cities, banks and financial industry as well. It seems like the only people who have been held accountable for ethical issues have been the teachers in Georgia.

In Baltimore, the resources of the city are truly needed by the dept. of education , emergency services, and city development services.