MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[MissSunshine]

I find it hinky that the police dept investigators didn't have any idea from the arrest reports or call logs of that stop. Pretty sure the driver wasn't alone during that one. Let me check.

The logs of stops are done over the police radio. Apparently the driver did not call over the radio that he made that stop so everyone was unaware except for him.

 

[iluvmua]

I feel so sorry for these officers, life as they know it is over.

Mrs. Mosby should have waited to press charges against them until everything was completed.

jmo

 

[octobermoon]

I'm still looking, disregard what I said until I find it. I might have it all wrong. Sorry.

 

[DebinGA]

His crime? He reported a case of police brutality.

Crystal drew the ire of his department after coming forward to report the 2011 beating of a drug suspect by a fellow officer. Crystal’s subsequent trial testimony helped secure convictions against the cop who carried out the beating and the sergeant who helped facilitate it.

Crystal says the pattern of abuse that followed led him to resign from the job he loved.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...-rat-police-brutality-claim-article-1.2077632

That's very troubling. Reminds me of the movie Serpico with a young Al Pacino playing the real NYC cop who exposed police corruption.

 

[octobermoon]

The logs of stops are done over the police radio. Apparently the driver did not call over the radio that he made that stop so everyone was unaware except for him.

Thanks, I might have the stops mixed up. :redface:

 

[MissSunshine]

Wow. Snitches.... isn't just a gang motto.

When there were people thanking the bloods, crips, and BGF for keeping their community safe during the riots, would you expect anything less. Criminals run deep in Bmore..from political positions and down.

But not all police in Bmore are like that. I know quite a few really, really good ones. Sadly, only the bad ones make the news.

 

[sorrell skye]

There is lots that we know about but we are not allowed to discuss here because the unnamed sources were interviewed on Fox News.

Unless that person is willing to speak on the record, then anything he has to say cannot be corroborated. It has nothing to do with it being reported by Fox News or by Hannity - it has to do with the fact that he wasn't willing to go on the record, therefore it's considered a rumor.

It may eventually come out that he was reporting factual info, but, until that time, I choose to consider anything he said as not corroborated.

 

[kaen]

I find it hinky that the police dept investigators didn't have any idea from the arrest reports or call logs of that stop. Pretty sure the driver wasn't alone during that one. Let me check.

Baltimore Sun has an incredible map with timelines and explanations. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...-gray-arrest-timeline-20150421-htmlstory.html

He called for back-up each time he stopped except one. Often, Officer Porter was on scene as he was in a squad car.

NPR.org — At dot No. 4 on that map, prosecutor Mosby says Goodson stopped, checked on Gray but did not call for help or buckle Gray in.

—- At dot No. 5 on that map, Goodson stopped again. Here's how Mosby described that stop:


"Several blocks later, Officer Goodson called into dispatch that he needed to check on the status of his prisoner and requested additional units at Dolphin Street and Druid Hill Avenue. Officer William Porter arrived on the scene at Dolphin Street and Druid Hill Avenue. Both Officer Goodson and Porter proceeded to the back of the wagon to check on the status of Mr. Gray's condition. Mr. Gray at that time requested help and indicated that he could not breathe. Officer Porter asked Mr. Gray if he needed a medic at which time Mr. Gray indicated at least twice that he was in need of a medic. Officer Porter then physically assisted Mr. Gray from the floor of the van to the bench however despite Mr. Gray's appeal for a medic, both officers assessed Mr. Gray's condition and at no point did either of them restrain Mr. Gray per BPD general order nor did they render or request medical assistance."

This seems like the key moment! And lack of action here was possibly a fatal lack of action.

 

[ohreally]

I'm still looking, disregard what I said until I find it. I might have it all wrong. Sorry.

I'm not sure if this helps, but this is what I have found from this link: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/baltimore-protests-freddie-gray.html
The new stop turned up on video taken from “a privately owned camera,” said the deputy police commissioner, Kevin Davis. He added that it was “previously unknown to us,” but he did not elaborate

 

[octobermoon]

When there were people thanking the bloods, crips, and BGF for keeping their community safe during the riots, would you expect anything less. Criminals run deep in Bmore..from political positions and down.

But not all police in Bmore are like that. I know quite a few really, really good ones. Sadly, only the bad ones make the news.

I do not believe all police are bad or corrupt. Not at all! These six are responsible for FG's death imo for the medical neglect alone. Whatever else will come out at trial if they are indicted.

 

[kaen]

You'd think that Mosby would have been made aware of this.

The appeal is about supplying seatbelts. In the Baltimore vans, it is department policy and seatbelt are supplied. In point, unsecured seatbelts would mean that the argument of the appeals concern stated was about the use of seatbelts as a weapon could occur. A handcuffed prisoner secured with a seatbelt would not be able to use it as a weapon where an unsecured seatbelt could be grabbed by a handcuffed person and be used to strangle or hit another person in that section of the van.

Interesting appeal.

 

[ShadyLady]

‘If you snitch, your career is done’: Former Baltimore cop says he was harassed, labeled a 'rat' after attempt to root out police brutality

Before he became public enemy No. 1 inside the Baltimore Police Department, Det. Joseph Crystal was considered one of its rising stars.

The son of two NYPD cops, Crystal was put in charge of his police academy cadet class on day one.

He was promoted to detective before he reached his second year on the force.

And he went on to lead his violent crime unit in gun arrests, racking up high-profile collars that made the evening news.

<snip>

His crime? He reported a case of police brutality.

Crystal drew the ire of his department after coming forward to report the 2011 beating of a drug suspect by a fellow officer. Crystal’s subsequent trial testimony helped secure convictions against the cop who carried out the beating and the sergeant who helped facilitate it.

Crystal says the pattern of abuse that followed led him to resign from the job he loved.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...-rat-police-brutality-claim-article-1.2077632

He did not have nice words for the Police Commissioner. Said attitude comes from the top.

 

[DebinGA]

This seems like the key moment! And lack of action here was possibly a fatal lack of action.

I agree, but Ofc. Porter was just 25 yo, while Ofc. Goodson was 45 and much more experienced. I think Porter would have done whatever Goodson told him to, so until I hear otherwise I put the blame for inaction on Goodson.

 

[kaen]

Oh thank you. I know he called the arresting officers and maybe the lone female officer to that stop. I want to know why that wasn't logged by however many were there. I should google before I post. (blush)

Sgt. White was sent to the van as a result of two (or more) complaints that came in after the initial arrest. Citizens were concerned about Gray's treatment and yelling in pain. They called the BPD. White was sent to make sure that Gray was not injured. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-riots/bs-md-sgt-alicia-white-20150501-story.html

Sgt. Alicia White, 30, is the second-highest-ranking officer involved in the Gray case, having been promoted to sergeant in January. She joined the Police Department in 2010 and earned $57,797 in 2014.



Baltimore Police Sgt. Alicia White
Charges against Sgt. Alicia White, 30, in the death of Freddie Gray: Involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office. Read the story: Alicia White was promoted to sergeant this year (Baltimore Police Department)
White met the van at its last stop at 1600 W. North Ave. before the final drive to the Western District police station. She was responsible for investigating two citizen complaints against Gray's arrest. She tried to speak to Gray in the van and when he didn't respond, State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby said, White "did nothing further despite the fact she needed a medic." White made no effort to further examine his condition or call anyone, according to Mosby.

 

[ShadyLady]

BBM

Unless an arrestee has evidence of abuse, then I doubt that person would have any valid claim of police abuse.

I, too, feel for the hard-working, law abiding citizens of Baltimore & elsewhere (and have posted such in the protest threads).

At the same time, I'm not without compassion for FG (despite his criminal background). I detest drug dealers. Nevertheless, he didn't deserve to be subjected to treatment after his arrest that allegedly led to his fatal injuries.

BUT, we don't know yet how the injuries occurred. If it was the intent of the driver.....why would he repeatedly call for help? Makes no sense.

 

[SStarr33]

BUT, we don't know yet how the injuries occurred. If it was the intent of the driver.....why would he repeatedly call for help? Makes no sense.

None of this makes any sense unless it is political. That the drivers told on themselves tells me they thought they did the right thing.

 

[kaen]

I agree, but Ofc. Porter was just 25 yo, while Ofc. Goodson was 45 and much more experienced. I think Porter would have done whatever Goodson told him to, so until I hear otherwise I put the blame for inaction on Goodson.

Respectfully, I think it is both of them who are responsible. Yes, it might have been an issue if Porter went over Goodson's head but he had a duty to protect the man in custody.

 

[Boytwnmom]

it was only when, reportedly, he was acting "irate" that he was removed and had his feet shackled.

At 8:46 a.m. the van stopped at Baker Street and police removed Gray, shackled him, filled out paperwork and put him back in the van.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/arrest-to-death-what-happened-to-freddie-gray/

Now I have no idea whether the series of events with FG was reasonable or normal. I have zero experience with being arrested so no clue on that front. And there was a very selective presentation of "facts" by the prosecutor and we haven't heard from ANY of the several officers involved.

If your feet are shackled could you still use them to stabilize yourself while sitting? I'm just thinking of, sorry, Jodi Arias and her walk across the courtroom for JSS. She was shackled. But maybe she was shackled differently. Again, I just don't know enough to say whether the officers actions were reasonable and/or whether FG's resistance activities caused in whole or part his injuries. Was he placed on the floor intentionally so he couldn't fall? Did he fall and end up on the floor? What is usually done with a cuffed and shackled prisoner when placed in that type of transport van?

And then the issue of whether he should have been seatbelted. Which, to me, may not just be on the officers involved. Because, if turns out, as has been alleged, that prisoners resisting who may present a danger to LE are typically NOT seatbelted, it will be hard to prove they were criminally responsible. If higher ups and, basically everyone in the dept knew, that the "seatbelt" policy was perhaps more honored in the breach, then it will be very difficult to hold the officers responsible in any criminal way or even to hold them personally responsible for negligence. The Police Commissioner may be the responsible one if he "allowed" the seatbelt rule to be routinely circumvented, i.e. he "knew" and did nothing. There's often an "official policy" and actual practice. Maybe the whole method of transport is negligent, although I'm sure there are safety and other reasons for having such a bare bones van used for prisoner transport. And if it is, who is responsible? The officers or the city and officials who are charged with looking at the whole arrest and transport process?

And so my comments are not misconstrued, FG should not have died from being arrested and transported. It was tragic. But what actually caused that and who, if anyone, is criminally responsible, is a whole different issue.

Maybe his legs hadn't been shackled before. If not, even with his hands in handcuffs, he could have used his feet and legs to brace himself if he was getting bounced around from not being seat belted before. But with his hands in handcuffs and his feet shackled, he was helpless as far as bracing himself from bouncing around this time. Just a thought.

 

[octobermoon]

Sgt. White was sent to the van as a result of two (or more) complaints that came in after the initial arrest. Citizens were concerned about Gray's treatment and yelling in pain. They called the BPD. White was sent to make sure that Gray was not injured. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-riots/bs-md-sgt-alicia-white-20150501-story.html

Sgt. Alicia White, 30, is the second-highest-ranking officer involved in the Gray case, having been promoted to sergeant in January. She joined the Police Department in 2010 and earned $57,797 in 2014.



Baltimore Police Sgt. Alicia White
Charges against Sgt. Alicia White, 30, in the death of Freddie Gray: Involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office. Read the story: Alicia White was promoted to sergeant this year (Baltimore Police Department)
White met the van at its last stop at 1600 W. North Ave. before the final drive to the Western District police station. She was responsible for investigating two citizen complaints against Gray's arrest. She tried to speak to Gray in the van and when he didn't respond, State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby said, White "did nothing further despite the fact she needed a medic." White made no effort to further examine his condition or call anyone, according to Mosby.

She stood by and did nothing. She had the responsibility to act and didn't. Inhumane.

 

[kaen]

BUT, we don't know yet how the injuries occurred. If it was the intent of the driver.....why would he repeatedly call for help? Makes no sense.

He called for help with the exception of the one stop.