Deceased/Not Found MD - Heather Grogg, 33, & Danielle Tyler, 18, Carroll Co, 6 Apr 2020 *arrest*

[CuriousQuiet1]

I think the wording from the Maryland Center for Missing and Unidentified Persons is odd: "Please be on the lookout for Danielle Tyler, 18 year old, missing from Taneytown, Carroll County, Maryland since April 6, 2020. She may be traveling with Heather Grogg, 33 year old, also reported as missing."

Why are we on the lookout for DT but not on the lookout for HG?

 

[Pleeang]

Not sure why lookout for DT and not HG. Wasn’t DT forced to leave the day she went missing? So maybe no one saw when or how or with who HG left? I would like to know if DT and HG were friends. I saw a video of an interview where they said HG and DT were very close. But then in an article with HG’s sister. She says HG told her that DT was just someone that came to the house. So were they friends or not?

 

[Mayjunejuly]

Not sure why lookout for DT and not HG. Wasn’t DT forced to leave the day she went missing? So maybe no one saw when or how or with who HG left? I would like to know if DT and HG were friends. I saw a video of an interview where they said HG and DT were very close. But then in an article with HG’s sister. She says HG told her that DT was just someone that came to the house. So were they friends or not?

I have nothing concrete, but I wanted to ask you guys your opinions:

would it matter how close of friends they were before the attack? (If DT & HG were at the home during the attack & witnessed it) I would think my main motivation would be to flee, no matter if I liked THE other girl or not, I also dont think it would be as difficult as some of you guys are making it out to be to survive on the run. For instance, coincidentally, we are in COVID times so ppl were not out and about as much & if they are they are required to wear masks (in MD you have to wear a mask if you go anywhere) so thats helpful to DT & HG ( if they are fleeing due to not wanting to get in trouble/go to prison) also I personally, have lived on the streets and lived in motels and lived a rough life when I was younger due to drug use, I had no job, no savings, no money (except the money I would make doing somthing:stealing, escorting ECT) I woule use that little money to fund my habit and pay for lodging for the night..... Now I mention this only to show that it is in fact possible to survive and lay low at the same time, also when I say they may have help hiding from friends, im not talking about the friends and family that are worried for them, im talking about ppl who they know/or just met on the run, who will help them and not tell their family or police.... In My personal exp. theres alot of ppl like that (esp if your a girl) who are willing to help....

So does anyone think this makes sense? And that there is a possibility that DT and HG are alive but on the run? Im just loooking for productive dicussion on this!

*again I could be completely wrong...just spitballing possibilities!**

 

[Mayjunejuly]

Not sure why lookout for DT and not HG. Wasn’t DT forced to leave the day she went missing? So maybe no one saw when or how or with who HG left? I would like to know if DT and HG were friends. I saw a video of an interview where they said HG and DT were very close. But then in an article with HG’s sister. She says HG told her that DT was just someone that came to the house. So were they friends or not?

Also what do you mean by "wasnt DT forced to leave"? Can you expand on why you feel,she was forced into leaving town?

 

[Mayjunejuly]

Somewhere I saw that MM put a knife to DT's throat and forced her into his car. But she eventually got away and asked her friends to help her. She was hurt and wanted to go to the hospital. But then her phone went dead. So no one really knows what happened when she disappeared.

Hmm I havent seen or heard any of that from MSM, I did do some Facebook digging because DT, HG, JB. MM all have public pages as well as looked at what others have written about the whole event, but havnt seen that information... However, is it possible your mixing up stories? There are so many article out and they all are just a little bit different!! I only ask because MM was arrested in 2016 for holding a knife to a young womens neck and forcing her into the car and then they ended up going back because the girl was forced to leave her child there... One of the other ppl in the car with MM made the driver turn around & let the woman go... But thats his previous case from 2016 not the current one..

I know were not supposed to quote social media or use it as a source due to rumors and fake news ect.... So I havent brought any of my findings from FB to here, but if anyone is intrested and has time I would recommend looking at those involved FB pages, its kinda paints a larger pic ..but nothing is verified so take what you learn with a grain of salt lol!

But these kids sure loved attention so practically all of them even the 4 already charged and AB have public pages.

 

[Pleeang]

I got my information from reliable sources not social media or papers. And I am not confusing the first case with the second case.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

I have nothing concrete, but I wanted to ask you guys your opinions:

would it matter how close of friends they were before the attack? (If DT & HG were at the home during the attack & witnessed it) I would think my main motivation would be to flee, no matter if I liked THE other girl or not, I also dont think it would be as difficult as some of you guys are making it out to be to survive on the run. For instance, coincidentally, we are in COVID times so ppl were not out and about as much & if they are they are required to wear masks (in MD you have to wear a mask if you go anywhere) so thats helpful to DT & HG ( if they are fleeing due to not wanting to get in trouble/go to prison) also I personally, have lived on the streets and lived in motels and lived a rough life when I was younger due to drug use, I had no job, no savings, no money (except the money I would make doing somthing:stealing, escorting ECT) I woule use that little money to fund my habit and pay for lodging for the night..... Now I mention this only to show that it is in fact possible to survive and lay low at the same time, also when I say they may have help hiding from friends, im not talking about the friends and family that are worried for them, im talking about ppl who they know/or just met on the run, who will help them and not tell their family or police.... In My personal exp. theres alot of ppl like that (esp if your a girl) who are willing to help....

So does anyone think this makes sense? And that there is a possibility that DT and HG are alive but on the run? Im just loooking for productive dicussion on this!

*again I could be completely wrong...just spitballing possibilities!**

I like your spitballing and I hope they are on the run or hiding out. One thing that worries me is, MOO, one of them would have called, texted, posted to SM, etc by now. It seems like HG's world is between Westminster and Hampstead, Maryland, not much more than a few miles. I think it would be difficult to negotiate a run from the law or from a gang when you have spent your life in one area. I recently read a memoir by a guy who grew up in Baltimore County and was involved in the sort of lifestyle it sounds like you are familiar with, using and selling drugs in Baltimore and suburbs. In his 10 years of using he was on the run from the police many times, spent a lot of time in jail, had phases with different drugs. During that period he went from his suburban town to Baltimore City and back. Never went anywhere else, barely knew about the town next to his, and felt like he was on a different planet when he went to rehab in Annapolis. MOO, I see HG as a similar spirit, someone who would not do well once she is a few miles away from Westminster and her support structure.

I saw something that didn't make sense to me earlier, that DT was in High School in Colorado, is that true? If so she maybe has more experience to negotiate the larger world.

So happy you made it out of that life, you must be a strong person.

 

[Pleeang]

I too hope the girls are safe and alive. I was hoping since JB was DT's friend and he would be the one to share things to help DT. I pray every night that they will be found alive. I worry they have been missing for a month today and no word from them. So many people lives are forever changed. I feel so sorry for those little children of ED and DS. DT goes to school in Maryland. (Francis Scott Key High School)

 

[mlhenn]

Missing Westminster woman questioned in Rippon murder


May 6 2020 Updated 1:00pm
Heather Grogg, 33, was living in and was present in the downtown Westminster apartment when the murder victim, Jonathan Riddle, was initially attacked and stabbed at least twice in the early morning of March 18, according to Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office.

Sheriff Pete Dougherty confirmed that Grogg—whom Riddle was visiting at the the Westminster apartment where he was attacked—was interviewed during an investigation into Riddle’s murder before she went missing on or before April 6.

 

[stattlich1]

I find it difficult to believe that, assuming a network of individuals to be involved, that ALL of them have maintained complete silence as to the whereabouts of these two women.

So for HG and DT to be holed up somewhere, living life, having their needs met, being hidden or kept by faithful comrades, well, at this juncture, I personally am finding that hard to believe.

For both to have been murdered, and their bodies so well hidden, or disposed of, seems quite unlikely to me too, given the fact that they disappeared weeks after the murder of JR. I guess after HG spoke with LE, it is possible someone may have wanted to silence her, but who? LE already had arrested the perps yes? Unless there are more involved, and they too are on the run.

DT and MM were rumored to be in some kind of relationship yes? And so, MM now being in prison, what would be DT's reasoning for disappearance? Makes no sense, unless she was evading LE. Same with HG. Both of them could be evading LE, and potential charges in the case. But for NOT ONE person to snitch 'em out, that would be some serious loyalty to them, or someone, yes?

I've considered possibly one of the women to be deceased, and the other on the run.

I've also considered the possibility that LE knows their whereabouts, maybe having them in protective custody, as a much larger picture is yet to emerge in this drama.

Final thoughts from me, for now. It is curious to me that online accounts are still out there, I mean, often times, in criminal cases, said accounts are scrubbed, or taken down. Could there be a reason they are all still out there on the interwebs?

And lastly, said accounts, some have postings recent, others have not posted anything in some time.

If ya'll know Taneytown, it's NOT a big place. However, it is a hop to Westminster, and a short trip to the Baltimore beltway. In this day and age, the connective web unites all.

 

[BHughes]

I find it difficult to believe that, assuming a network of individuals to be involved, that ALL of them have maintained complete silence as to the whereabouts of these two women.

So for HG and DT to be holed up somewhere, living life, having their needs met, being hidden or kept by faithful comrades, well, at this juncture, I personally am finding that hard to believe.

For both to have been murdered, and their bodies so well hidden, or disposed of, seems quite unlikely to me too, given the fact that they disappeared weeks after the murder of JR. I guess after HG spoke with LE, it is possible someone may have wanted to silence her, but who? LE already had arrested the perps yes? Unless there are more involved, and they too are on the run.

DT and MM were rumored to be in some kind of relationship yes? And so, MM now being in prison, what would be DT's reasoning for disappearance? Makes no sense, unless she was evading LE. Same with HG. Both of them could be evading LE, and potential charges in the case. But for NOT ONE person to snitch 'em out, that would be some serious loyalty to them, or someone, yes?

I've considered possibly one of the women to be deceased, and the other on the run.

I've also considered the possibility that LE knows their whereabouts, maybe having them in protective custody, as a much larger picture is yet to emerge in this drama.

Final thoughts from me, for now. It is curious to me that online accounts are still out there, I mean, often times, in criminal cases, said accounts are scrubbed, or taken down. Could there be a reason they are all still out there on the interwebs?

And lastly, said accounts, some have postings recent, others have not posted anything in some time.

If ya'll know Taneytown, it's NOT a big place. However, it is a hop to Westminster, and a short trip to the Baltimore beltway. In this day and age, the connective web unites all.

RBM

No. They were last seen April 6.

Maryland State Police apprehended Sanford, 26, of Westminster, on April 9 in Westminster. He has waived extradition and is being held without bond in the West Virginia Regional Jail System.

According to Friday's release, Merrell, 22, also of Westminster, was arrested on April 15 in Virginia Beach, Va., by the U.S. Marshal's Service Task Force. He is being held without bond in the Virginia Beach Correctional Center. He is scheduled for a court appearance on May 18.


On April 14, police obtained a warrant charging Black, 22, of Taneytown, with first-degree murder, kidnapping and conspiracy, the release states. Maryland State Police arrested him on April 15 in Taneytown.
Police make more arrests in West Virginia murder case

 

[Pleeang]

I am trying to understand how the police go to MM’s house see a cut on his hand. They find blood in his car, he acts nervous. But still they let him free as a bird. Why not take him in for more questioning? Hold him in jail, he has a past of not doing nice things. He did has a record and had just gotten out of prison in January. At least put a tail on him. Keep track of his moves. They also interview HG and she says she was there when stabbing occurred but they also let her free. Did she tell cops who all were there? Didn’t someone think if she was a witness that someone just might want to silence her and anyone else that were there? Did anyone ever interview DT? Then there is almost a month from the time the cops talk with MM till they arrest him. Who’s car did he have in Virginia? Didn’t the cops take the Chevy Malibu with blood in it?
This is all so crazy. I do understand they need to have just cause to arrest . I get that. But the reality is if they would have made MM serve the 25 years he was given in his sentencing. Maybe none of this would have happened. Those poor sweet little babies would not have lost both parents, a grandmothers heart would not be broken because her granddaughter is missing. A father missing his babies growing up and sisters missing their sister. And the list goes on of someone lost without their family member or their good friend. The cops arrest a woman in Texas for working to put food on the table to feed her kids. But then you have someone that kidnapped a woman by knife point and he is out on the street using a knife again but this time someone was murdered. I just don’t understand how the law works.

 

[Mayjunejuly]

So no new MSM regarding the girls... Its been a month now, after reading all Of your thoughts and responses (Thank you all by the way, I feel our conversation has been very productive) I'm starting to worry. As I said before I was of the belief that DT & HG are alive and well and on the run - making money anyway they could, staying with ppl who are not the greatest ppl and wouldnt turn them in.... But its been a full month, no sightings, no rumors, no $$ , no contact, nothing. That is odd, but not impossible... (Face masks could make it hard for anyone to recognize DT & HG if they are alive and out there somewhere & if you were on the run from LE you wouldnt use your social media or phone because they can easily track that via GPS) However, the longer they are gone the less hope I have because these girls were not trained in wilderness/or how to survive off grid, they didnt have saved up $$, or really the ability to leave the country easily... I suppose they could have driven up to canada from MD easily but I doubt that they have the fake documemts needed to get across the border or the skills to sneak across the border., if they did cross with their IDs obviously the FBI would know so that didnt happen, same with air travel, so they would be either on foot or somehow got a hold of a vehicle to use (but whose vehicle, they must know its missing or stolen why not report that? Or they gave them the car but then that would be somone who hasn't came forwad yet...) Idk the more I think about it, I think these girls are either on the run and SOMEONE knows/is helping them evade LE--- or they are deceased...the theory of them being deceased also has holes in it though, first off why kill them almost a month after the murder? There was a 2-3 day period DS, ED, JB, MM were all not charged/not in custody (april6-8) they could have heard HG spoke with police & got mad? (Idk though, by April 6 I feel confident the police knew what happened & the players involved, so I'm not sure what HG could have offered the police that they didnt already have from the informant) How did they kill them and keep their bodies hidden so well, esp. When you look at the way JR was murdered, its not like these guys are very smart... BUT "pleeang" posted a thread about a reliable source witnessing MM hold DT by knife point and force her into his car. She got away but her. Phone was dead & that was the last anyone saw/talked to her, she was apparently hurt (see above for original post)--- if this is true, I suppose HG could be on the run alone, DT could have been kidnapped by MM & taken to VA, if that happened, MM could have killed her and could have disposed of her anywhere along the way from MD to VA... That could be why we havent heard anything, the possible crime scene could be anywhere...
However, the FBI seems,to stress that they are probably traveling together-- if thats the case the only logical conclusion I can come to if they are alive and evading police is that someone is helping them, someone knows where they are, DT & HG could not pull off this long of a dissappearing act without help from someone, maybe its someone they know from MD, maybe its someone they met when they were on the run.

As for MM--- I totally agree he should have never been let out of prison from his first knife attack, I truly believe he was offered that alford plea only because he was a minor, but honestly the fact he was a minor & commiting such grisely crimes already should have been a red flag that he needs help & is not safe to be around.... I also believe he was the catalyst of the murder of JR, I do believe if MM was still in prison and not released in Jan then JR would be alive.... Its very sad because MMs family is actulley a nice family, buisness owners...i have no clue how MM turned into the monstor he is today, its really just all around so sad to see so many ppl effected by these choices (MM DS ED JB) made, and to think if only ONE person at that house that night stepped in and got JR help in the aprtment he might still be alive....

Thats just my current thoughts on this case, but they change daily.... I'm very much looking forward to the trial of these scumbags (MM DS JB ED) and hopefully it will shedd light on what happened... I also pray that HG and DT will be found or come home asap!!!

 

[mompalm]

So no new MSM regarding the girls... Its been a month now, after reading all Of your thoughts and responses (Thank you all by the way, I feel our conversation has been very productive) I'm starting to worry. As I said before I was of the belief that DT & HG are alive and well and on the run - making money anyway they could, staying with ppl who are not the greatest ppl and wouldnt turn them in.... But its been a full month, no sightings, no rumors, no $$ , no contact, nothing. That is odd, but not impossible... (Face masks could make it hard for anyone to recognize DT & HG if they are alive and out there somewhere & if you were on the run from LE you wouldnt use your social media or phone because they can easily track that via GPS) However, the longer they are gone the less hope I have because these girls were not trained in wilderness/or how to survive off grid, they didnt have saved up $$, or really the ability to leave the country easily... I suppose they could have driven up to canada from MD easily but I doubt that they have the fake documemts needed to get across the border or the skills to sneak across the border., if they did cross with their IDs obviously the FBI would know so that didnt happen, same with air travel, so they would be either on foot or somehow got a hold of a vehicle to use (but whose vehicle, they must know its missing or stolen why not report that? Or they gave them the car but then that would be somone who hasn't came forwad yet...) Idk the more I think about it, I think these girls are either on the run and SOMEONE knows/is helping them evade LE--- or they are deceased...the theory of them being deceased also has holes in it though, first off why kill them almost a month after the murder? There was a 2-3 day period DS, ED, JB, MM were all not charged/not in custody (april6-8) they could have heard HG spoke with police & got mad? (Idk though, by April 6 I feel confident the police knew what happened & the players involved, so I'm not sure what HG could have offered the police that they didnt already have from the informant) How did they kill them and keep their bodies hidden so well, esp. When you look at the way JR was murdered, its not like these guys are very smart... BUT "pleeang" posted a thread about a reliable source witnessing MM hold DT by knife point and force her into his car. She got away but her. Phone was dead & that was the last anyone saw/talked to her, she was apparently hurt (see above for original post)--- if this is true, I suppose HG could be on the run alone, DT could have been kidnapped by MM & taken to VA, if that happened, MM could have killed her and could have disposed of her anywhere along the way from MD to VA... That could be why we havent heard anything, the possible crime scene could be anywhere...
However, the FBI seems,to stress that they are probably traveling together-- if thats the case the only logical conclusion I can come to if they are alive and evading police is that someone is helping them, someone knows where they are, DT & HG could not pull off this long of a dissappearing act without help from someone, maybe its someone they know from MD, maybe its someone they met when they were on the run.

As for MM--- I totally agree he should have never been let out of prison from his first knife attack, I truly believe he was offered that alford plea only because he was a minor, but honestly the fact he was a minor & commiting such grisely crimes already should have been a red flag that he needs help & is not safe to be around.... I also believe he was the catalyst of the murder of JR, I do believe if MM was still in prison and not released in Jan then JR would be alive.... Its very sad because MMs family is actulley a nice family, buisness owners...i have no clue how MM turned into the monstor he is today, its really just all around so sad to see so many ppl effected by these choices (MM DS ED JB) made, and to think if only ONE person at that house that night stepped in and got JR help in the aprtment he might still be alive....

Thats just my current thoughts on this case, but they change daily.... I'm very much looking forward to the trial of these scumbags (MM DS JB ED) and hopefully it will shedd light on what happened... I also pray that HG and DT will be found or come home asap!!!

@Mayjunejuly Thanks for sharing your thoughts and keeping this thread alive.

I am local too, and although I don't know any of the players, we have acquaintances in common. I want to believe that HG and DT are alive, well and hiding out. Maybe they have reason to believe harm will come to their families if they talk, or that they themselves will be in danger if they come out of hiding?

Anything I could add for now is just hearsay, small town talk and not reliable. There hasn't been any new info on local news or social media that I have seen, so all we can do is speculate. I think the families have been asked by police to stay silent about it.

I am very curious as to how Austin figures in to this.

My own opinion only.

 

[stattlich1]

@Mayjunejuly Thanks for sharing your thoughts and keeping this thread alive.

I am local too, and although I don't know any of the players, we have acquaintances in common. I want to believe that HG and DT are alive, well and hiding out. Maybe they have reason to believe harm will come to their families if they talk, or that they themselves will be in danger if they come out of hiding?

Anything I could add for now is just hearsay, small town talk and not reliable. There hasn't been any new info on local news or social media that I have seen, so all we can do is speculate. I think the families have been asked by police to stay silent about it.

I am very curious as to how Austin figures in to this.

My own opinion only.

I too think family has been advised to remain silent, very little online that I have seen of late.

I live rather close to Taneytown and Westminister. It is troubling to me too that such time has passed and no LE statements and NO word from the missing ladies.

It's a very intriguing situation IMO. Kidnapped, being held hostage against their will? Murdered, one or both? In hiding, to avoid charges, or retaliation of some sort? In FBI protective custody?

MOO, as time passes, I fear the worst, if not dead, I'm going with on the run to avoid LE.

Speculation abounds.

 

[Mayjunejuly]

@Mayjunejuly Thanks for sharing your thoughts and keeping this thread alive.

I am local too, and although I don't know any of the players, we have acquaintances in common. I want to believe that HG and DT are alive, well and hiding out. Maybe they have reason to believe harm will come to their families if they talk, or that they themselves will be in danger if they come out of hiding?

Anything I could add for now is just hearsay, small town talk and not reliable. There hasn't been any new info on local news or social media that I have seen, so all we can do is speculate. I think the families have been asked by police to stay silent about it.

I am very curious as to how Austin figures in to this.

My own opinion only.

Your welcome, but honestly thank you guys for engaging, I just stumbled upon this community when reading about this case, I dont usually post on the internet, but I love to follow crime and have in interest in it (not doing it, just why ppl do it), so when I saw this forum I decided to join and I've had a great time talking with kind, like-minded people! I also have a child, she means everything to me, she saved my life so god forbid she ever got herself into a similar situation I would want people keeping her case alive and so I just am heartbroken for DT & HG being missing- regardless of if they are possibly involved/witnesses to murder...the thought of more ppl loosing their lives in this situation is heart breaking.


But yes I dont know any of these ppl personally either, I just know people who are acquainted with a few as well.. I hope for a speedy resolve in this case...

 

[Mayjunejuly]

How does AB fit into all of this:

Officially: he was listed as missing along side DT & HG. (Missing Persons Planet on Twitter) ; after this article no other MSM (* that I know of-- plz correct me if I'm wrong!) had mentioned AB as missing; the wording of this article seems to indicate AB was involved in the case & has been missing along with the girls (although, there is no idication he was traveliing with either DT or HG)

Unofficially: on social media sources, people close to the case in Westminster, MD & surrounding areas are circulating missing posters for AB (2 weeks ago was the last sighting I could confirm of such a post) - social media is unverified, so I'm not sure what to make of some local community members continuing with the narritive that AB is actulley still missing..(maybe he is?!) & then MSM being silent on all things related to AB, (somthing to ponder?, somthing weird imo!)

As of today, I cant confirm or deny that AB is still missing, or if he was actulley at the home when the murder occured.... But I am leaning toward the belief AB is actulley the police informant / witness / person who told the police what happened -- per MSM articles indicating an informant...

Hope this helps... & anyone else who may know about AB and what his part of this mystery is please chime in!!...

*speculation & opinion... Facts are backed with MSM sources.

 

[mlhenn]

Your welcome, but honestly thank you guys for engaging, I just stumbled upon this community when reading about this case, I dont usually post on the internet, but I love to follow crime and have in interest in it (not doing it, just why ppl do it), so when I saw this forum I decided to join and I've had a great time talking with kind, like-minded people! I also have a child, she means everything to me, she saved my life so god forbid she ever got herself into a similar situation I would want people keeping her case alive and so I just am heartbroken for DT & HG being missing- regardless of if they are possibly involved/witnesses to murder...the thought of more ppl loosing their lives in this situation is heart breaking.


But yes I dont know any of these ppl personally either, I just know people who are acquainted with a few as well.. I hope for a speedy resolve in this case...

I noticed you said you normally don’t post on the internet but have an interest cases such as this one...well, IMO you chose the right place to begin following, discussing & posting on incidents such as these! Websleuths is great!
Keeping the conversation going helps keep these MP cases from being forgotten.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

In FBI protective custody?

RSBM

Would the FBI list them as missing if the FBI knows where they are? I can imagine this could be useful to maybe draw some other people out or get other people talking, but if it hasn't worked in this many weeks I would think they would give up on that strategy?

Just more spitballing ideas.

 

[stattlich1]

RSBM

Would the FBI list them as missing if the FBI knows where they are? I can imagine this could be useful to maybe draw some other people out or get other people talking, but if it hasn't worked in this many weeks I would think they would give up on that strategy?

Just more spitballing ideas.

Makes sense that the FBI wouldn't have them listed as missing if they had them in protective custody, unless like you said, it would be a rude, or a way of ensuring their protection.

That's too much for me to buy in to at this stage.

I think they are dead, or on the run to avoid prosecution, tending toward them being on the run.

They're probably holed up in the West Virginia hills somewhere, moo