Deceased/Not Found MD - Heather Grogg, 33, & Danielle Tyler, 18, Carroll Co, 6 Apr 2020 *arrest*

[CuriousQuiet1]

RSBM

I think JR went to the house on East Main Street where HG was living with DS & ERD. The rest of the crew was off in West Virginia at a party. The trouble started when the partiers from WV got back to Westminster. I do not think HG or JR went to WV for the "biker party" reported in the news.

I went through a few news reports before I found the one that makes me believe JR and HG were in Westminster and not in WV at the party. It isn't definitive but this article says: "...police learned Riddle had been at Sanford’s and Day’s Westminster residence late at night March 17 to meet with Heather Grogg, 33...In the early hours of March 18, several people arrived to the residence, including Sanford, Day, and Merrell, according to charging documents."

Police say Westminster woman provided gloves in effort to help defendants get away with murder

 

[Knox]

There was a post about how HGs sister changed up her story about DS and ERD.
Just my opinion but it seems maybe she has more involvement than we know. Possibly to DS and ERD.

For 9 people to be involved in the murder seems unreal to me. For 9 people to agree to murder then burn the body. Then two more get involved to murder two others? For this to be a murder only out of a fight after a party seems unrealistic to me.

And therein lies the problem.

As Benjamin Frankin said "Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead".

When you put gangs and drugs together, this all makes sense.

Besides the motive for killing Riddle, it's the one thing I am curious about that hasn't been revealed. What kind of drugs were these people on? Their actions & mentality don't sound alcohol related.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

WV is more country. More woods and easier to hide. If they can safely have gang parties at a party trailer, it isn’t very monitored. Or possibly just ignored by law enforcement. MOO. Considering MM stayed there after the first murder that AprilB wasn’t involved with, it seems like she might have been romantically involved with MM.

Double posting happens a lot, I'm not sure why. If you catch it within an hour of posting the Websleuths general reaction is to click on "Edit" at the bottom right of your duplicate post and delete that second post and replace it with "DBM" (deleted by me), or "Dupe", or whatever statement you like. After a week or two at Websleuths you get used to duplicate posts, no big deal.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

And therein lies the problem.

As Benjamin Frankin said "Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead".

When you put gangs and drugs together, this all makes sense.

Besides the motive for killing Riddle, it's the one thing I am curious about that hasn't been revealed. What kind of drugs were these people on? Their actions & mentality don't sound alcohol related.

MOO...meth.

 

[FollowingMD]

MOO...meth.

Meth causes very distinctive physical effects. Skinny, bumps (cuts), missing teeth. It happens fast. None of the people involved look like meth addicts to me. Jmo

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

WV is more country. More woods and easier to hide.

RSBM

Playing the "what would I do if..." game, if I was in Westminster (I live about 20 minutes south of downtown Westminster, have been here 3 years so not as familiar as a local) and had a body to ditch I can come up with 2 places where I guarantee the body would not be found for weeks or months, and I could be at home in bed in less than the time it takes to get to Rippon, WV. I wouldn't be able to sleep because I have a conscience, but I would be home.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Meth causes very distinctive physical effects. Skinny, bumps (cuts), missing teeth. It happens fast. None of the people involved look like meth addicts to me. Jmo

Opioids?

 

[CarrollCountyGal]

Did we ever get confirmation that DT was the one who actually texted her grandma stated “she wants to turn off her phone because of the drama”(not the exact quote) or if it was someone else. As the last known phone activity or call made from DT phone was to 911. Maybe that call was made when MM was driving DT and HG to the house and DT had a feeling something bad was gonna happen or it could have been when there trying to suffocate her or some time during all of that

I saw in an article somewhere, I will have to look for it, that Danielle’s grandmother said that she does not believe that text came from Danielle.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Considering MM stayed there after the first murder that AprilB wasn’t involved with, it seems like she might have been romantically involved with MM.

RSBM

1)...ewwwww. Nobody should sleep with people who are capable of these crimes.

2) MM spent from Jan 17, 2020 to April 15, 2020 out of prison. How does he hook up with a woman 15 years older than him in another state while also dating a high school girl in Maryland and also managing to fit in a little kidnapping, murder, (alleged) drug dealing, planning and carrying out more murders to cover up the earlier murder, running away to WV, running away to Virginia Beach, etc? This guy accomplished more in the only 3 months he will ever be out of prison in his life than most criminals do in a lifetime.

I agree with what you are saying... but how? Is April one of those women who becomes pen pals with convicts? Is there a white supremacy dating app? Is his White Power prison gang hooked up with the Pagan Motorcycle Club in Falling Waters, WV?

 

[stattlich1]

Motive?

Snitch?

Money?

Or just flat out stupidity, anger and bloodlust?

MOO, I'm thinking snitch. Somebody knew something, had dirt on somebody, and threatened to spill it. OR, somebody knew something, and the others no longer trusted him.

That biker club, they don't play.

Drugs, money, gangs.....what could possibly go wrong?

God be with the families of the deceased.

 

[Bevie63]

I like your thoughts on making connections. I would like to add a geography question to your list: Why are all these people from Westminster Maryland driving to West Virginia all the time? Going to party in WV. Dumping a body in WV. Hiding from LE in WV. Planning and carrying out more murders in WV. Why not take care of some of that stuff in Maryland and save the commuting time?

Reading between the lines here it seems like at least DS was going to WV for drugs, but why the attraction to WV for dumping the body? Or planning the murders? Or most blatantly ridiculous to me, why hide from the West Virginia police by moving to West Virginia?

Westminster Md to West Va is really not that far, depends if they use the interstate, maybe a 35 to 40 minute drive, very wooded areas.

 

[Buck187]

April's father was an active member in the Pagan Biker Club.. they went to a Pagan party.. Monroe's fb has a motorcycle on his profile pic... AND... I can tell you that MM's father is ALSO an active member.. I can't show you proof.. I can only say he is.

I really think MM's parents probably introduced him to the club.. WV chapter is probably closer than the others... I think he knows of her through his father and the club.

MOO.

I personally know many of the families involved, and happen to know for a fact MM's Dad/Family is not connected in any gangs. They have nothing to do with any of it, and want nothing to do with MM.

 

[FollowingMD]

No, Just friends from years ago, JR had turned his life around, married, great step dad, husband, There will be more arrests, JS cousin has written a post his girlfriend knew and both had driven to West Virginia and their child was in the car also.

What do you mean turned his life around? What was his vice before getting married?

MOO married men don’t meet single women at night just to chit chat.

In what way did HG's sister's story change? I didn't catch that.

Thanks

she flip flopped her thoughts on DS and ERD.

I personally know many of the families involved, and happen to know for a fact MM's Dad/Family is not connected in any gangs. They have nothing to do with any of it, and want nothing to do with MM.

his dad doesnt look like he would fit into the pagans. Not at all. Not his mom or their life style. I can’t imagine what they are feeling right now. They look like good people.

 

[jaydog_23]

All of this could have been avoided and the three victims would still be alive if MM wasn’t released from jail. He was in jail for kidnapping a girl with a knife and sentenced to 20 years but only served 2 then got released in January. And 3 months later all this happens. Why he was released early with that type of crime idk but this could have all been avoided. Sad sad sad

 

[Mayjunejuly]

Meth causes very distinctive physical effects. Skinny, bumps (cuts), missing teeth. It happens fast. None of the people involved look like meth addicts to me. Jmo

I'm posting in regards to what drugs these ppl could be on :

As I posted in a previous page, I personally have lived that drug life, my main drug of choice was heroin, I always had that, but I also used meth quite a bit, now ofcourse your right meth does usually cause noticeable picking scratching ECT. But in the 5 years I would use meth close to every day (smoking) I didnt ever have anything on by face or really anything that would make someone think I was on meth... Now that could be due to the heroin use,. But I'm thinking it more has to do with how long and often someone uses it as well as route of ingestion. Shooting up meth is 100% different and more intense then smoking it, the ppl who you see who have mental breaks from meth use usually happen after long term IV use.. As for opioids, you likely wouldn't be able to tell until they hit bottom & are homeless with a sign. From the drugs that are most commonly used in that area I would venture to guess they all 'party' im thinking they do pills, maybe they get dope from Baltimore...but I do believe meth is one of the drugs these ppl were using...trust me I don't look like I ever did meth...i have my teeth, no scratches, etc. But like I said I only used it by smoking and for only 5 years which is relatively short time period in the overall scheme of things.



As for my thoughts on what happened:

MM ordered the girls to be murdered, and I'm starting to wonder if DT or HG told police more after the original murder, either way originally AusB was missing since April 6, could he be the witness police are relying on to prove that DS, ERD, & JS (JB? Not sure if JB was there when killing the girls ) were seen driving the girls down to WV... They thought they were going to lay low but obviously MM had a darker plan ? Could one of the girls been the original informant on JRs murder? & AusB after realizing the girls were being taken care of possibly went to police on or near April 6? Telling them he didn't know where they were but knows the plan was to kill them? It could explain how LE knew the girls were in critical danger???

However, I was under the impression AusB was present during the biker party, which according to MSM was @ aprilB little party trailer (another common theme in drug addiction and use, I wouldn't be shocked these ppl use meth and pills, possibly heroin....) .. If AusB was present @ the party trailer you would think when he went informant in early April he would have told LE of that location...?

I'm not going to lie, I'm shocked at this outcome... I had no idea how cruel MM is... As for the post about MMs dad being a pagan biker, where did you get that information??? I only ask because due to my knowledge they are a normal family and buisness owners... I can't imagine them living the pagan gang lifestyle...

I've read all the MSM articles that I could (dumb paywalls) as well as this thread, today I'm going to go back & search their social media pages (mainly FB) and I'll post more ideas on motive as soon as I have some!!

Thank you all for your posts!

 

[FollowingMD]

I'm posting in regards to what drugs these ppl could be on :

As I posted in a previous page, I personally have lived that drug life, my main drug of choice was heroin, I always had that, but I also used meth quite a bit, now ofcourse your right meth does usually cause noticeable picking scratching ECT. But in the 5 years I would use meth close to every day (smoking) I didnt ever have anything on by face or really anything that would make someone think I was on meth... Now that could be due to the heroin use,. But I'm thinking it more has to do with how long and often someone uses it as well as route of ingestion. Shooting up meth is 100% different and more intense then smoking it, the ppl who you see who have mental breaks from meth use usually happen after long term IV use.. As for opioids, you likely wouldn't be able to tell until they hit bottom & are homeless with a sign. From the drugs that are most commonly used in that area I would venture to guess they all 'party' im thinking they do pills, maybe they get dope from Baltimore...but I do believe meth is one of the drugs these ppl were using...trust me I don't look like I ever did meth...i have my teeth, no scratches, etc. But like I said I only used it by smoking and for only 5 years which is relatively short time period in the overall scheme of things.



As for my thoughts on what happened:

MM ordered the girls to be murdered, and I'm starting to wonder if DT or HG told police more after the original murder, either way originally AusB was missing since April 6, could he be the witness police are relying on to prove that DS, ERD, & JS (JB? Not sure if JB was there when killing the girls ) were seen driving the girls down to WV... They thought they were going to lay low but obviously MM had a darker plan ? Could one of the girls been the original informant on JRs murder? & AusB after realizing the girls were being taken care of possibly went to police on or near April 6? Telling them he didn't know where they were but knows the plan was to kill them? It could explain how LE knew the girls were in critical danger???

However, I was under the impression AusB was present during the biker party, which according to MSM was @ aprilB little party trailer (another common theme in drug addiction and use, I wouldn't be shocked these ppl use meth and pills, possibly heroin....) .. If AusB was present @ the party trailer you would think when he went informant in early April he would have told LE of that location...?

I'm not going to lie, I'm shocked at this outcome... I had no idea how cruel MM is... As for the post about MMs dad being a pagan biker, where did you get that information??? I only ask because due to my knowledge they are a normal family and buisness owners... I can't imagine them living the pagan gang lifestyle...

I've read all the MSM articles that I could (dumb paywalls) as well as this thread, today I'm going to go back & search their social media pages (mainly FB) and I'll post more ideas on motive as soon as I have some!!

Thank you all for your posts!

Thank you for being so candid about your past drug addiction. I commend you for being in recovery!! To me, I agree they have the feel of meth addicts or heron or pills. The first two are cheaper than pills. And to think of it, it’s easier for them to make Meth out there than travel for others.

Im still stuck on why they killed JR. I still can’t imagine that 9 people agree to and watch him be murdered. I have a horrible idea and would hate to say it out loud since he has passed. I don’t want to put that on his name.

 

[Clhart82]

Seems a lot of people were offended by the comment I made about MM's Dad.. I apologize.. there was no intent on implying he had anything to do with what MM did, I just wanted to give a possible connection that I heard. As I said I have no proof..

With that being said.. the Pagan Motorcycle Gang are not all terrible people or bad guys.. some of them live absolutely normal, law abiding lives and don't do these kinds of things. Back in the day they were extremely violent but these days they are for the most part quiet.. but you also have some terribly twisted individuals that belong as well.

I apologize.. I'm sure his parents are hurting just as much just trying to process everything their son did. I have a son and I couldn't imagine.

I'm posting in regards to what drugs these ppl could be on :

As I posted in a previous page, I personally have lived that drug life, my main drug of choice was heroin, I always had that, but I also used meth quite a bit, now ofcourse your right meth does usually cause noticeable picking scratching ECT. But in the 5 years I would use meth close to every day (smoking) I didnt ever have anything on by face or really anything that would make someone think I was on meth... Now that could be due to the heroin use,. But I'm thinking it more has to do with how long and often someone uses it as well as route of ingestion. Shooting up meth is 100% different and more intense then smoking it, the ppl who you see who have mental breaks from meth use usually happen after long term IV use.. As for opioids, you likely wouldn't be able to tell until they hit bottom & are homeless with a sign. From the drugs that are most commonly used in that area I would venture to guess they all 'party' im thinking they do pills, maybe they get dope from Baltimore...but I do believe meth is one of the drugs these ppl were using...trust me I don't look like I ever did meth...i have my teeth, no scratches, etc. But like I said I only used it by smoking and for only 5 years which is relatively short time period in the overall scheme of things.



As for my thoughts on what happened:

MM ordered the girls to be murdered, and I'm starting to wonder if DT or HG told police more after the original murder, either way originally AusB was missing since April 6, could he be the witness police are relying on to prove that DS, ERD, & JS (JB? Not sure if JB was there when killing the girls ) were seen driving the girls down to WV... They thought they were going to lay low but obviously MM had a darker plan ? Could one of the girls been the original informant on JRs murder? & AusB after realizing the girls were being taken care of possibly went to police on or near April 6? Telling them he didn't know where they were but knows the plan was to kill them? It could explain how LE knew the girls were in critical danger???

However, I was under the impression AusB was present during the biker party, which according to MSM was @ aprilB little party trailer (another common theme in drug addiction and use, I wouldn't be shocked these ppl use meth and pills, possibly heroin....) .. If AusB was present @ the party trailer you would think when he went informant in early April he would have told LE of that location...?

I'm not going to lie, I'm shocked at this outcome... I had no idea how cruel MM is... As for the post about MMs dad being a pagan biker, where did you get that information??? I only ask because due to my knowledge they are a normal family and buisness owners... I can't imagine them living the pagan gang lifestyle...

I've read all the MSM articles that I could (dumb paywalls) as well as this thread, today I'm going to go back & search their social media pages (mainly FB) and I'll post more ideas on motive as soon as I have some!!

Thank you all for your posts!

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

To me, I agree they have the feel of meth addicts or heron or pills. The first two are cheaper than pills. And to think of it, it’s easier for them to make Meth out there than travel for others.

RSBM

I originally guessed meth not because of the way any of these characters look or the things they did, my guess was just based on reading about that motorcycle gang. They cook and sell a lot of meth from what I found.

 

[Knox]

What do you mean turned his life around? What was his vice before getting married?

MOO married men don’t meet single women at night just to chit chat.



she flip flopped her thoughts on DS and ERD.



his dad doesnt look like he would fit into the pagans. Not at all. Not his mom or their life style. I can’t imagine what they are feeling right now. They look like good people.

Isn't DS the Godfather of HG's sister's child? I thought I read that somewhere.

 

[Knox]

Thank you for being so candid about your past drug addiction. I commend you for being in recovery!! To me, I agree they have the feel of meth addicts or heron or pills. The first two are cheaper than pills. And to think of it, it’s easier for them to make Meth out there than travel for others.

Im still stuck on why they killed JR. I still can’t imagine that 9 people agree to and watch him be murdered. I have a horrible idea and would hate to say it out loud since he has passed. I don’t want to put that on his name.

Theories are what we are all about here at WS. I'm curious what you think, and feel you could very tactfully express your idea.