ME - Lewiston, Mass Shooting, Multiple Scenes, 18 killed *shooter found dead* Oct 2023 #2

[Seattle1]

https://americancornhole.com/what-is-cornhole/

 

[Seattle1]

10/28/23 -- https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/27/us/these-are-the-victims-of-the-maine-mass-shootings/index.html

 

[Seattle1]

A teen bowler, a shipbuilder and a sign language interpreter are among the Maine shooting victims

Eighteen people were killed in two mass shootings in Lewiston, Maine.

www.fox5vegas.com

 

[Betty P]

Maine police were alerted weeks ago about shooter's threats

Police across Maine were alerted just last month to “veiled threats” by the U.S. Army reservist who would go on to carry out the worst mass shooting in the state’s history, one of a string of missed red flags that preceded the massacre. Two local law enforcement chiefs told The Associated Press...

news.yahoo.com

Two local law enforcement chiefs told The Associated Press that a statewide awareness alert was sent in mid-September to be on the lookout for Robert Card after the firearms instructor made threats against his base and fellow soldiers. But after stepped-up patrols of the base and a visit to Card’s home – neither of which turned up any sign of him – they moved on.

So no one saw Card from mid-September until he showed up to murder people? I have a hard time believing that.

If an alert was issued over a month ago, why didn’t anyone call LE and turn him in?

Didnt he also buy fore guns before the mass murder? How was that possible if there was a statewide alert? No one took any of this seriously until it was too late.

I hope they trace his movements in his final days and hold people accountable. If they’re going to insist on having these weak laws in place, the least they can do is follow them.

 

[ilovewings]

So no one saw Card from mid-September until he showed up to murder people? I have a hard time believing that.

If an alert was issued over a month ago, why didn’t anyone call LE and turn him in?

Didnt he also buy fore guns before the mass murder? How was that possible if there was a statewide alert? No one took any of this seriously until it was too late.

I hope they trace his movements in his final days and hold people accountable. If they’re going to insist on having these weak laws in place, the least they can do is follow them.

Trust me: nobody will be held accountable---

 

[Ontario Mom]

Trust me: nobody will be held accountable---

The one accountable is now dead.

 

[steeltowngirl]

“He came in and filled out the form, he checked off a box that incriminated himself saying that he was in an institution,” Rick LaChapelle, owner of Coastal Defense Firearms, said. “Our staff was fantastic, let him finish filling out the form, and said, ‘I'm sorry, Mr. Card, we cannot give you this… at this point in time, we cannot release this silencer to you because of the answers that you've given us.”

LaChapelle added "we did what we were supposed to do and hopefully saved a lot of lives by the proper, just following the proper procedures.”

Had Card succeeded in buying the silencer, LaChapelle, the city council president in Lewiston, Maine, said he believes the rampage might have even been more deadly because people at the two locations would not have heard the rifle fire.

Alleged Maine gunman tried to buy a silencer months before Lewiston shootings

The alleged Maine gunman, Robert Card, tried to buy a silencer for a rifle at a local firearms store three months prior to the mass shooting, the owner said Saturday.

abcnews.go.com

 

[ilovewings]

The one accountable is now dead.

Truth!

 

[Elley Mae]

Alleged Maine gunman tried to buy a silencer months before Lewiston shootings, store owner says

Alleged Maine gunman tried to buy a silencer months before Lewiston shootings, store owner says

Nearly three months before the Lewiston, Maine, mass shooting, alleged gunman Robert Card tried to buy a silencer for a rifle at a local firearms store, the owner said.

abc7ny.com

"He came in and filled out the form, he checked off a box that incriminated himself saying that he was in an institution," Rick LaChapelle, owner of Coastal Defense Firearms, said. "Our staff was fantastic, let him finish filling out the form, and said, 'I'm sorry, Mr. Card, we cannot give you this... at this point in time, we cannot release this silencer to you because of the answers that you've given us."

 

[SMK777]

The worst part in this is that there was a law enforcement alert on him, but they moved on. He obviously didn’t.

I do get tired of always reading, after the violence, that police were alerted about the person. Something broken within the system of communication, certainly.

Maine police were alerted weeks ago about shooter's threats

Police across Maine were alerted just last month to “veiled threats” by the U.S. Army reservist who would go on to carry out the worst mass shooting in the state’s history, one of a string of missed red flags that preceded the massacre. Two local law enforcement chiefs told The Associated Press...

news.yahoo.com

 

[ilovewings]

The worst part in this is that there was a law enforcement alert on him, but they moved on. He obviously didn’t.

I do get tired of always reading, after the violence, that police were alerted about the person. Something broken within the system of communication, certainly.

Maine police were alerted weeks ago about shooter's threats

Police across Maine were alerted just last month to “veiled threats” by the U.S. Army reservist who would go on to carry out the worst mass shooting in the state’s history, one of a string of missed red flags that preceded the massacre. Two local law enforcement chiefs told The Associated Press...

news.yahoo.com

Yes it is tiresome--- after the fact "the police were alerted before-----""" blah blah blah
Apparently there is no learning curve with these situations because nothing changes

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

“Sociopath” now referred to as antisocial personality disorder is on the DSM. So it’s a diagnosable mental health condition.

Antisocial Personality Disorder - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) is an adult diagnosis characterized by a persistent pattern of disregard for and violation of others' rights, beginning in childhood or early adolescence. Individuals with ASPD often manipulate others for personal gain, lack empathy, and seldom feel remorse...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

JMO

In the actual DSM, it very clearly states the following in the introductory pages of the actual book (page 25 if anyone wants to look it up):
"However, use of the DSM should be informed by an awareness of the risks and limitations of its use in forensic settings. When DSM-5 categories, criteria, and textual descriptions are employed for forensic purposes, there is a risk that diagnostic information will be misused or misunderstood. These dangers arise because of the imperfect fit between the questions of ultimate concern to the law and the information contained in a clinical diagnosis."

Basically, it's a book for CLINICIANS, not to make determinations of mental illness in response to a crime.

It should also be noted that a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder is not made based on one event, but rather a lifetime of behavior, per the DSM. As far as I know, we don't have information about this guy's lifetime behavior.

Also as an aside, stuttering is also in the DSM as is learning disabilities. I think we'd all agree these are not considered mental illness. I'd be careful about categorizing everything in the DSM as mental illness.

JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

The worst part in this is that there was a law enforcement alert on him, but they moved on. He obviously didn’t.

I do get tired of always reading, after the violence, that police were alerted about the person. Something broken within the system of communication, certainly.

Maine police were alerted weeks ago about shooter's threats

Police across Maine were alerted just last month to “veiled threats” by the U.S. Army reservist who would go on to carry out the worst mass shooting in the state’s history, one of a string of missed red flags that preceded the massacre. Two local law enforcement chiefs told The Associated Press...

news.yahoo.com

In this instance, they were "veiled threats" according to almost every media outlet, and when LE couldn't locate him after 2 weeks checking in with both his place of employment and his home, they moved on.

Which honestly, what else could they have done?
LE cannot be expected to be mind readers, and they can't arrest someone they can't find, and they can't even arrest someone for making a "veiled" threat, unless of course the threat was direct, and detailed - which effectively removes the "veiled" part of the threat.
And even if they had located & arrested him, he'd have been out of jail in no time at all, considering.

Making a criminal threat in Maine is a class D crime (used to be called a misdemeanor) Title 17-A, §209: Criminal threatening which carries a max of a year in jail and a 2 grand fine Office of the Maine AG: Crime and Victims: Criminal Justice System. And that's IF the max penalty is imposed.

In this case, I believe LE did all they could with what they had available to them.

jmo

 

[Sillybilly]

Discuss THIS case and not gun control in general. Gun control is a social justice issue that only results in bickering and will never be resolved through discussion at Websleuths. It is one of the TOS violations that may result in permanent warning points being assigned to a member's account.

from: The Rules: Etiquette & Information

RACE/SEX/POLITICS/RELIGION BASHING, ETC

Threads or posts promoting or expressing intolerant views toward a particular social group are prohibited. Introducing social justice/injustice issues such as race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, politics, gun control, capital punishment into a discussion is not allowed.

 

[Jinkasaurus]

Discuss THIS case and not gun control in general. Gun control is a social justice issue that only results in bickering and will never be resolved through discussion at Websleuths. It is one of the TOS violations that may result in permanent warning points being assigned to a member's account.

from: The Rules: Etiquette & Information

RACE/SEX/POLITICS/RELIGION BASHING, ETC

Threads or posts promoting or expressing intolerant views toward a particular social group are prohibited. Introducing social justice/injustice issues such as race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, politics, gun control, capital punishment into a discussion is not allowed.

Question for the mods: IIRC, a while back, there was a thread created specifically to discuss gun control, etc. Is that still available? Thanks.

 

[SMK777]

In this instance, they were "veiled threats" according to almost every media outlet, and when LE couldn't locate him after 2 weeks checking in with both his place of employment and his home, they moved on.

Which honestly, what else could they have done?
LE cannot be expected to be mind readers, and they can't arrest someone they can't find, and they can't even arrest someone for making a "veiled" threat, unless of course the threat was direct, and detailed - which effectively removes the "veiled" part of the threat.
And even if they had located & arrested him, he'd have been out of jail in no time at all, considering.

Making a criminal threat in Maine is a class D crime (used to be called a misdemeanor) Title 17-A, §209: Criminal threatening which carries a max of a year in jail and a 2 grand fine Office of the Maine AG: Crime and Victims: Criminal Justice System. And that's IF the max penalty is imposed.

In this case, I believe LE did all they could with what they had available to them.

jmo

Good points.

 

[MyBelle]

In the actual DSM, it very clearly states the following in the introductory pages of the actual book (page 25 if anyone wants to look it up):
"However, use of the DSM should be informed by an awareness of the risks and limitations of its use in forensic settings. When DSM-5 categories, criteria, and textual descriptions are employed for forensic purposes, there is a risk that diagnostic information will be misused or misunderstood. These dangers arise because of the imperfect fit between the questions of ultimate concern to the law and the information contained in a clinical diagnosis."

Basically, it's a book for CLINICIANS, not to make determinations of mental illness in response to a crime.

It should also be noted that a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder is not made based on one event, but rather a lifetime of behavior, per the DSM. As far as I know, we don't have information about this guy's lifetime behavior.

Also as an aside, stuttering is also in the DSM as is learning disabilities. I think we'd all agree these are not considered mental illness. I'd be careful about categorizing everything in the DSM as mental illness.

JMO

It has been reported that the shooter was divorced and during that divorce, the Judge ordered both parties to have no weapons in their households. To me, that is an indication that domestic violence was a contributing factor to the divorce. The news media has reported that while the manhunt for Card was underway, his ex-wife and son were in hiding.

I'm not a physician but I do have family members profoundly impacted by domestic violence inflicted by narcissistic parents with serious personality disorders.

JMO

Robert Card's former wife and son were in HIDING amid manhunt

Card's ex-wife Cara Lamb, 39, and son Colby, 18, were reportedly in hiding as the mass shooter was a fugitive at large, leading law enforcement officials on a 48-hour manhunt that ended Friday night.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[MyBelle]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
It is an ongoing investigation into why and how Card "slipped through the cracks."
JMO

Maine police were alerted weeks ago about shooter’s threats

“He slipped through the cracks,” one expert said.

www.politico.com

Jody Madeira, an Indiana University law professor who has studied gun laws, said police in one state can alert counterparts in another state that someone is a danger, and the military can do the same with local police.

She said someone dropped the ball because Card’s threats and medical evaluation should have triggered a yellow flag seizure of his guns when he returned home.

“He slipped through the cracks,” Madeira said. “There were warning signs.”

 

[steeltowngirl]

Question for the mods: IIRC, a while back, there was a thread created specifically to discuss gun control, etc. Is that still available? Thanks.

General Gun Violence/Gun Control

Hi All, Tricia has asked us to open up a discussion about gun violence, as clearly, there is a problem with gun violence, especially in the United States. In many of the cases that come to Websleuths, gun violence is the cause, and we don't/can't allow general gun violence/control discussion...

www.websleuths.com