ME report: Discuss it here

[StephanieHartPI]

90% of the M.E. Testimony, starting a bit into the Defense questioning, going all the way to the end.

---------------------

Defense: Isn't it true that at some point you told Det Flores that you thought the first wound was the shot to the head?

ME: I don't recall ever saying that

Defense: So you think you never told Detective Flores that?

ME: I don't think that's consistent with the evidence that I have, I don't remember ever saying anything like that

Defense: Ok so what your testimony is, I just want to be clear is that you never told Detective Flores that the gunshot wound was the first wound

ME: I don't believe I ever said that, no

Defense: And do you remember telling Detective Flores that you knew this because the gunshot wound would not have completely incapacitated somebody

ME: I don't recall saying that either

Defense: Is that something you think you would have never said to Detective Flores?

ME: I think I've said it here in court that I don't think it would immediately incapacitate him or kill him. But it would be a serious injury, but I don't recall telling Detective Flores that, no.

Defense: Ok, so, let me back up for a second, so you are saying the gunshot wound is not immediately incapacitating?

ME: I would say not immediately fatal

Defense: I'm not talking about fatal, I'm just talking about incapacitating

ME: I think...yes, it would be incapacitating, passing through his brain, so yes

Defense: So...and that's assuming it was passing through his brain, you would say it is incapacitating.

ME: I'm saying it did pass through his brain

Defense: And so. Um, so you wouldn't have told Det Flores that that wound would not have completely incapacitated someone? Right? I guess you wouldn't have said that?

ME: I don't recall saying...I don't recall having a conversation with the Detective about anything

Defense: I'm sorry, I missed the last part.

ME: I don't recall having a conversation with the Detective all all about this case

Defense: Ok. So do you remember telling Detective Flores that...Mr Alexander could be unconscious but that you suspect he became conscious again?

ME: No, I don't recall saying that

Defense: Ok and you suspect he became conscious or that you knew he became conscious because there are defensive wounds?

ME: I think he'd have to be conscious during the defensive wounds, I don't recall telling Detective Flores that.

Defense: Ok. But if the gunshot wound comes first and the defensive wounds come after that obviously he would have to be conscious for that?

ME: I don't think that makes sense, I don't think he got the gunshot wound and then got the defensive wounds, I think he would have been unconscious.

Defense: Ok. So thats something you never told Det Flores?

ME: Again, I don't recall ever having a conversation about anything

Defense: So if you don't recall ever having a conversation with Det Flores, and we know that Det Flores was at the autopsy right?

ME: Right

Defense: So then, can we assume then that you never spoke to him again?

ME: It was 10 years ago, I don't remember.

Defense: It wasn't 10 years ago, it was in 2008

ME: oh, 2, 6 ... Several years go

Defense: Four and a half

ME: I don't recall speaking to him again, no

Defense: So then it is possible that you spoke to Det Flores?

ME: Sure

Defense: Um, and its then possible that you might have said these things to Det Flores?

ME: I don't believe I would say those things, no. I don't think they are consistent with what I am saying here

Defense: Ok, and so, I guess the one thing we can agree on is the wound to the neck, that one was mostly certainly fatal the quickest is that correct?

ME: Yes, thats the most significant wound in my opinion, yes.

Defense: ok. (Judge may I have a minute?)
2:46:03

(pause she is at her table)

Defense: Do you remember giving your opinion to Det. Flores that ... the
cut to the throat was the last wound?

ME: No

Defense: And so Det Flores would have testified in some other hearing that that's what you told him? He's wrong?

(Juan: Objection - speculation)
(Judge: Sustained)

Defense: And...(flipping through pages) (still flipping around) You remember, I take it you have no memory of discussing the scene photographs with Det Flores?

ME: I don't... no.

Defense: And in discussing the scene photographs with Det. Flores, telling Det. Flores that the gunshot wound would not have completely incapacitated Mr Alexander?

ME: Again, I've been answering this question, I do not have any recollection of that. No.

Judge: Redirect

Prosecutor (JM): Sir...Sir, in terms of the sequencing of the wounds, do you remember having an interview with this individual with the glasses? (Pointing at Nurmi) Do you remember having an interview with him?

ME: Vaguely, I do remember the Defense interview...

Prosecutor (JM): (interrupting the answer) YOU were interviewed with regard to this case right? (excitement level rising, sounding agitated)
And you have a copy of that interview don't you?

ME: I do.

Prosecutor (JM): And you WERE asked about the sequencing of these injuries weren't you?

ME: Yes

Defense: OBJECTION, leading!
Judge: Sustained

Prosecutor (JM): Alright, did you talk to them about the sequencing of the injuries?

ME: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): And...and at anytime did you stop the interview and say "no I don't want to talk to you about the sequencing of the injuries"

ME: No (sounding quiet, almost defeated? or upset)

Prosecutor (JM): And...were you asked about the sequencing of the injuries?

ME: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): And what did you tell them about the interview that you had with THEM?

ME: I felt that the gunshot wound may have been last but at any event...um,
the gunshot wounds and the wounds to the neck would have had to have come after the defensive wounds of the hands.

Prosecutor (JM): And is that what you told us today?

ME: yes

Prosecutor (JM): Now sir with regard to the procedure or the process that takes place when a body is brought in...in terms of when you conduct the examination, who is in the room with you?

ME: um, forensic technicians, photographers, sometimes medical students.

Prosecutor (JM): Do you take the photographs?

ME: no

Prosecutor (JM): in terms of the individuals from law enforcement, you indicated they are there, by your report right?

ME: yes, they're in an observation area

Prosecutor (JM): But in terms of the examination room itself, is the Detective there looking over your shoulder and questioning you as you conduct this forensic examination? Is that how its done?

ME: No

Prosecutor (JM): Where are there physically speaking, the Detective when this examination is going on?

ME: They're in an observation bay, separated by glass

Prosecutor (JM): And if they want to talk to you during this particular process how does that work, in other words if they want to provide you
with advice as to weather or not an injury went through the brain or not how is it that they provide this advice to you?

ME: They don't, generally

Prosecutor (JM): And but if they do want to talk to you, how does it happen?

ME: They have a hand set they can pick up and I can hear them in the autopsy area and then I will come to the door or window and I will talk to them.

Prosecutor (JM): And as you're conducting this examination, is it your practice to immediately form an opinion as to which inury is first, which is second and which is third if there is three of them

ME: No

Prosecutor (JM): Why NOT? why wouldn't you immediately tell the, I know this is is first, I know this is second, I know this is the third one. Why wouldn't you do it that way?

ME: well, often we can never establish that, but I want the opportunity to look at the whole case, get investigative reports back, get toxicology, histology and come to a final report

Prosecutor (JM): And this report that you prepare, when is it due, In other words, how long does it take you to prepare this report with your impressions.

ME: Varies, minimum of a month, maximum four to five months

Prosecutor (JM): In this case I think you conducted the autopsy ..what..June 16th I think?

ME: June 12th

Prosecutor (JM): June 12th. And what date is your report dated?

ME: July 15th

Prosecutor (JM): And...how many... So roughly that's what, a month?

ME: 5 weeks

Prosecutor (JM): And how many pages is your report?

ME: 8 pages

Prosecutor (JM): and in that report, is there any place that indicates that the gunshot wound ... or which, um, which injury was first or last? Anywhere does it indicate that?

ME: No

Prosecutor (JM): In terms of you being asked about the sequence of events
in terms of these fatal injuries, when, according to your records was the first
time that you were asked about the sequencing of events?

ME: According to my recollection, it would have been at the Defense interview (pointing to Nurmi)

Prosecutor (JM): And...before that, you didn't write it in your report right?

ME: That's right

Prosecutor (JM): And, is it your practice to write the sequencing of events in your report?

ME: No

Prosecutor (JM): Why not?

ME: It would be speculative, and I am simply providing information about the injuries that I see.

Prosecutor (JM): And, then, once you've had a chance to have all this information before you, that's when you make your determination right?

Me: yes

Prosecutor (JM): you were asked about this photograph here, which is Exhibit #162, let me have it marked. One of the things that you weren't able to see There's a date and time associated with that, correct?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): What is the date, if you can see it, and the time?

Me: June 4, 2008 5:32:16 seconds, in the evening

Prosecutor (JM): And it does show, a head right? (this is the photo of her leg/shoe, back of his head, back of his shoulder with blood)

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): And you were asked whether or not this was a foot, do you remember that?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): If that were a foot, would you have any problem saying this person had another foot if this were a human being?

Me: No

Prosecutor (JM): And would you have any problem saying if this individual had two feet, that he had two arms?

Me: no

Prosecutor (JM): well, you would know that they would right?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): Do you know whether or not the right arm the left arm do you know what that right arm is doing?

Me: No

Prosecutor (JM): Do you know whether that right arm or left arm is holding...what you say may have been a right arm, whether or not
that's holding up that arm?

Me: That's certainly possible

Prosecutor (JM): And you don't know for example what the left arm is doing, do you?

Me: Thats correct

Prosecutor (JM): And this part up here (pointing to the back of Travis head with his pen) I know that this is stringing (word?) a little bit of credibility, and I don't know medical science, but thats the top of a head, right?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): If I'm wrong tell me.. right?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): And this part right here is the neck right?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): You see any blood coming down from the top of the head?

Me: It's very dark, I cant...say for sure whether

Prosecutor (JM): But can you see any blood coming from the neck area?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): And if you see the blood coming from the neck area, and you know the injuries and you assume this is Travis Alexander, what would you associate that blood with?

Me: A cut to the throat

Prosecutor (JM): And with regard to the injury to the chest area, if his head is up in that position, and his arm is being lifted in that position, and knowing what you know about gravity, would you think this blood is coming from the injury to his chest, or the neck area?

Me: Neck area

Prosecutor (JM): (looking at his legal pad of questions) Sir, one of the things that you were asked about was the wounds to the back? Do you remember being asked about that?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): And this question, may or may not be your area, but with regard to human beings, are mens arms longer than women's or not? I dont know.

Me: Generally they're longer yes.

Prosecutor (JM): And with regard to, a person's body, generally speaking, is a man's body, upper chest, is that bigger or smaller than a woman's upper chest

Me: bigger

Prosecutor (JM): Bigger...And you were asked about the injuries to the back, do you remember that?

Me: yes

Prosecutor (JM): And you were asked .. well.. is it possible that somebody could have come around (motioning as if you are walking up to someone and bear hugging them from the front, your arms wrap around their upper body, and you stab them, or do those injuries to the back) So you remember that? Possible right?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): With regard to that possible scenario, is it also possible that an individual could be hunched over and somebody came up behind him and started inflicting those kind of injuries (motions stabbing in back) Is it consistent with that?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): And with regard to the injury to the chest, you said well its slightly upward.. Do you remember saying that?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): Is it possible with regard to that injury that someone could come up like this? (motion stabbing someone from front, but off side a bit, with his pencil in his left hand he motions to the court reporter coming up to the side using his left hand, swings around and stabs toward his chest both facing the same direction) Is that possible?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): Is there any impediment doing something like that?

Me: No

Prosecutor (JM): Do we have to wrap arms around somebody to get that injury, or can we do it just like this? (motioning coming up along side the person, and with left hand, swing your arm back and stab)

Me: It can be from the front or back

Prosecutor (JM): Is it consistent.. that injury, if someone is sitting down, Mr Alexander, and he is sitting down, and somebody comes up and does something like that, is that consistent with that?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): The issue of the gunshot wound, did the gunshot wound go through the frontal lobe or not?

Me: It did

Prosecutor (JM): If it goes through the frontal lobe, what does the human body do if a gunshot goes through the frontal lobe?

Me: Well, there is a shock to the entire brain, as a projectile is passing through so its not just like an arrow or a nail. You've also got expanding gasses, you've got a tumbling projectile, so generally you're going to have... its a shock situation neurological shock, and those people are incapacitated.

Prosecutor (JM): And that gunshot wound that we are talking about did it go through the mouth or not?

Me: It goes above the mouth, its in the sinus structure, so bleeding out of the mouth is certainly possible.

Prosecutor (JM): And it ended up in the left cheek

Me: Cheek, yes

Prosecutor (JM): The distance of the gunshot wound, you said it was indeterminate. Right?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): And thats based on the fact that you don't see any (sounds like stiffling) there, right?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): And indeterminate to you in this case.. Whats Indeterminate, I know what the word means but ... How far... Can you give us any parameters
whatsoever as to how far or how close the, uh, the gunshot was?

Me: Again, I'm not a ballistics expert, generally speaking for most firearms its going to be a minimum distance of a couple feet. At least

Prosecutor (JM): And...this gunshot wound, was there hemorrhaging that was associated with it on the path that it traveled?

Me: In the scalp and in the cheek area there is some hemorrhage, no hemorrhage detected in the skull itself.

Prosecutor (JM): And what does that mean to you in terms of the sequencing whether or not the person was alive or not alive

Me: If there is less blood it may mean that the other injuries preceded that and there was just less bleeding because there was less blood to come out of the body

Prosecutor (JM): Could this person have been dead at the time this gunshot wound was inflicted?

Me: That's possible, yes

Prosecutor (JM): And in terms of what an individual may have said or, your report does indicate that Detective Flores was at the autopsy right?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): Does it have an M.D. after his name... maybe I missed it?

Me: No

Prosecutor (JM): So, in terms of this individual this Det. Flores what he may or may have said, any idea where he gained his knowledge?

Me: I don't. No.

Prosecutor (JM): But your knowledge is based on what you saw at the Autopsy, your schooling, and anything else that was provided to you right?

Me: Yes

Prosecutor (JM): I don't have anything else. Thank you

Judge: Does any member of the Jury have a question for this witness?
I see no hands. You may step down.

:seeya:

 

[nursebeeme]

Discuss the ME report here

 

[minor4th]

Dr Horn's report:

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/redactedtravisautopsy.pdf

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Dr Horn's report:

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/redactedtravisautopsy.pdf

Excellent thank you!

 

[GobBluth]

I was just reading the ME report, not the testimony but the initial report, and the bullet entered the skull in the temple, and then reentered the skull where it remained in the opposite cheek.

That means that in between, it traveled through the cranial cavity, which, in that area, is where the brain is located. Had it passed through the sinuses, it would have damaged those bones.

I have a really hard time believing that TA could have sustained this type of brain injury first, and then had the ability to fight his attacker to the sink and down the hallway, sustaining defensive stab wounds and other stab wounds along the way. IMO.

Side note: Gunshot first or last, the defensive wounds show the cruelty either way. IMO.

 

[K_Z]

(I posted this in the Thread #38, and then realized it probably fits better here, so I'm bringing it over here. Hope that is not a breach in WS protocol!)

Now that I've read the autopsy, I'm persuaded that Jodi definitely knew "how" to thrust a knife quite savagely. One of the anterior chest thrusts disturbed the costochondral cartilage so severely that the ME cut out the specimen to save for further analysis. That she made so many shallow cuts was initially puzzling to me. For instance, the cluster of stab wounds on Travis' back were an average of only an inch deep. Now, it appears to me from this pattern of stabs that she didn't intend to stab deeply in the back. There is no mention of the knife becoming stuck in the posterior ribs, or damaging the posterior ribs. It appears to me from the AR that these cuts were made at that depth "on purpose"-- and not because she inadvertently kept hitting ribs. And they sure don't look or sound like "hesitation" wounds.

And so I begin to think more about this, I'm thinking that it's more than possible that she was taunting and torturing him while he was still conscious. Intentionally not stabbing too deeply, as opposed to wondering "why won't you die" and continuing to stab.

Jodi definitely knows where the vital organs are in a person. She also has a good idea how deep inside the body they are.

I wish the ME had talked about this more in his testimony-- the clusters of shallow wounds, versus the very savage wounds. But perhaps that was felt to be too speculative, since the sheer number of wounds are so savage.

 

[anagrammy]

(I posted this in the Thread #38, and then realized it probably fits better here, so I'm bringing it over here. Hope that is not a breach in WS protocol!)

Now that I've read the autopsy, I'm persuaded that Jodi definitely knew "how" to thrust a knife quite savagely. One of the anterior chest thrusts disturbed the costochondral cartilage so severely that the ME cut out the specimen to save for further analysis. That she made so many shallow cuts was initially puzzling to me. For instance, the cluster of stab wounds on Travis' back were an average of only an inch deep. Now, it appears to me from this pattern of stabs that she didn't intend to stab deeply in the back. There is no mention of the knife becoming stuck in the posterior ribs, or damaging the posterior ribs. It appears to me from the AR that these cuts were made at that depth "on purpose"-- and not because she inadvertently kept hitting ribs. And they sure don't look or sound like "hesitation" wounds.

And so I begin to think more about this, I'm thinking that it's more than possible that she was taunting and torturing him while he was still conscious. Intentionally not stabbing too deeply, as opposed to wondering "why won't you die" and continuing to stab.

Jodi definitely knows where the vital organs are in a person. She also has a good idea how deep inside the body they are.

I wish the ME had talked about this more in his testimony-- the clusters of shallow wounds, versus the very savage wounds. But perhaps that was felt to be too speculative, since the sheer number of wounds are so savage.

Today when Arias said that Travis "came up" at her from the shower and slammed her low on her body, I think she was (for once) telling the truth. This would put the back of his head in her stomach as he pushed her down the hall. She would be jacked up on adrenaline screaming and stabbing him in the 5-6" area as described in the ME report.

If you look at the autopsy report photos, the angles of these shallow incisions match perfectly with a rage-filled left-handed killer slashing in a panic. It also explains the waist-high blood smudge on the wall as well as her bloody palm print.

 

[nursebeeme]

:bump:

 

[dr dona]

Gunshot last--no hemorrhage seen in brain area--no subdural where bullet went thru the skull....so TA was dead before the gunshot---I personally feel she shot him just to destroy his face----symbolic because he was a handsome man--just her last means to degrade. The knife wound are absolutely horrific---Travis suffered greatly. In how many cases of self-defense is the victim stabbed so horrificly....This is more like a crazy jealous pschob---- or a psychotic serial killer. Jodi was really pissed!!!!. Guilty of 1 st murder and this level of butchery equals death penalty to me...

 

[nursebeeme]

:bump:

 

[jbc]

I’m new here….but I wanted to contribute this for a while.

I saw JA’s 7/16/2008 interrogation with Detective Flores before anything else long ago, and this part gave me chills.

At one point, Flores asks: What injury did Travis have other than the gunshot?

JA says:

TA and JA were about halfway in the hall
There was a little bit of a struggle
The female intruder had a knife – and JA demonstrates it in her left hand (but then says it was in the right)
Travis was naked, but JA didn’t care
JA was saying, “c’mon, c’mon”
Travis said: “But I can’t… I CAN’T FEEL MY LEGS.” (emotionally)

The last statement made my hair stand up. I teach neurology and neuroscience.

My immediate thought was that TA sustained an injury to something called the “dorsal columns” in the spinal cord just above the midpoint of his back. Then, when I saw the ME report, that kind of injury could occur with some of the middle back stabs if they penetrated between the vertebrae.

There is a good medical reason that Travis couldn’t feel his legs – he sustained stab wounds to the center of his back that could have cut the part of the spinal cord (the dorsal columns) that carries the sensory feelings from the legs to the brain.

Losing feeling in the legs and not also the arms is too highly a specific symptom to just randomly make up. How could she make up the neurologically rare syndrome of not feeling one’s legs with only an 11th grade education, unless it actually happened? But, it is entirely plausible given TA’s stabs.

Two conclusions:

1. The fact that she stated the medically unique symptom that TA reported (indeed, so unique that she is unlikely to be able to make it up), indicates she remembers more of the knife struggle than she admits.

2. And, I’m sorry to say this… It helps further demonstrate how tortured TA was during the struggle. TA was conscious, getting weaker, and eventually couldn’t move because of blood loss, but likely also because he lost sensory function below the navel. And, worst of all….he would have been totally aware that it was happening.

 

[SCSam]

Welcome! I have always thought JA wove reality in this session with Flores. She was the female dressed in black.. and IMHO, much of what she says TA did, actually happened as she killed him.

 

[Zeno49]

Gunshot last--no hemorrhage seen in brain area--no subdural where bullet went thru the skull....so TA was dead before the gunshot---I personally feel she shot him just to destroy his face----symbolic because he was a handsome man--just her last means to degrade. The knife wound are absolutely horrific---Travis suffered greatly. In how many cases of self-defense is the victim stabbed so horrificly....This is more like a crazy jealous pschob---- or a psychotic serial killer. Jodi was really pissed!!!!. Guilty of 1 st murder and this level of butchery equals death penalty to me...

A high velocity projectile entering the skull and passing across the dura mater will not necessarily cause a subdural hematoma. Blunt head trauma is the main cause of a SDH which shears the crossing veins between dura and arachnoid potential space.

Bullet fragment penetration into brain parenchyma causes a complex injury characterized by contusion, intracranial hemorrhage, punctate hemorrhage, cavitation, and dispersed micro metallic residue.
The ME autopsy report did not address the appearance of white matter in the right frontal lobe.

ME REPORT:
“No gross evidence of significant intracranial hemorrhage or apparent cerebral injury (examination of brain tissue is somewhat limited by the decomposed nature of remains”).

We know there was some post mortem liquefaction necrosis. There was no apparent gross intraparenchymal hematoma in right frontal lobe. There is NO report of microscopic description of right frontal lobe white grey matter.
Indeed it is even possible that the .25 caliber bullet veered off course after traversing the right frontal bone and deflection.

ME REPORT:
“Projectile enters the facial skeleton near the midline. . “
This ME report is extraordinarily bereft of detail and is suboptimal with respect to the head injury.

The ME did not spend anytime analyzing the course of the bullet after exit from the anterior cranial fossa. We don’t even know exactly where the bullet exited the anterior cranial fossa. And we have NO idea how the bullet reached the left cheek. “The left cheek” is an improper anatomic description.

Possible locations include the left masticator space, the left parapharyngeal , deep lobe of parotid gland, the left infratemporal fossa, or the left pteryrigopalatine fossa.

 

[Ricki]

I listened to Dr Horns testimony a few days ago. He seems very confident in through out his testimony and his conclusions. He was very persuasive when telling Wilmont that the wound was definitely not the same as a shot with a nail gun or arrow striking the head. He pretty much put her in her place IMO.

 

[Applejack]

He described more than "the left cheek" in the report. Photos also accompanied it.

 

[nursebeeme]

bumping up

 

[Zuri]

A high velocity projectile entering the skull and passing across the dura mater will not necessarily cause a subdural hematoma. Blunt head trauma is the main cause of a SDH which shears the crossing veins between dura and arachnoid potential space.

Bullet fragment penetration into brain parenchyma causes a complex injury characterized by contusion, intracranial hemorrhage, punctate hemorrhage, cavitation, and dispersed micro metallic residue.
The ME autopsy report did not address the appearance of white matter in the right frontal lobe.

ME REPORT:
“No gross evidence of significant intracranial hemorrhage or apparent cerebral injury (examination of brain tissue is somewhat limited by the decomposed nature of remains”).

We know there was some post mortem liquefaction necrosis. There was no apparent gross intraparenchymal hematoma in right frontal lobe. There is NO report of microscopic description of right frontal lobe white grey matter.
Indeed it is even possible that the .25 caliber bullet veered off course after traversing the right frontal bone and deflection.

ME REPORT:
“Projectile enters the facial skeleton near the midline. . “
This ME report is extraordinarily bereft of detail and is suboptimal with respect to the head injury.

The ME did not spend anytime analyzing the course of the bullet after exit from the anterior cranial fossa. We don’t even know exactly where the bullet exited the anterior cranial fossa. And we have NO idea how the bullet reached the left cheek. “The left cheek” is an improper anatomic description.

Possible locations include the left masticator space, the left parapharyngeal , deep lobe of parotid gland, the left infratemporal fossa, or the left pteryrigopalatine fossa.

I read the ME report multiple times and thought that it was indeed "bereft" of details. (Love that word). If you look at the post mortem facial pic from autopsy, the entrance wound is clearly delineated. There looked to me like there were fractures in the frontal bone fron the bruising. I was wondering if that is possible to see externally. Thanks

 

[Shelby1]

I just wanna know, bottom line, is the mistake a big deal, or not?

I truly hope NOT.

 

[Nana46]

I’m new here….but I wanted to contribute this for a while.

I saw JA’s 7/16/2008 interrogation with Detective Flores before anything else long ago, and this part gave me chills.

At one point, Flores asks: What injury did Travis have other than the gunshot?

JA says:

TA and JA were about halfway in the hall
There was a little bit of a struggle
The female intruder had a knife – and JA demonstrates it in her left hand (but then says it was in the right)
Travis was naked, but JA didn’t care
JA was saying, “c’mon, c’mon”
Travis said: “But I can’t… I CAN’T FEEL MY LEGS.” (emotionally)

The last statement made my hair stand up. I teach neurology and neuroscience.

My immediate thought was that TA sustained an injury to something called the “dorsal columns” in the spinal cord just above the midpoint of his back. Then, when I saw the ME report, that kind of injury could occur with some of the middle back stabs if they penetrated between the vertebrae.

There is a good medical reason that Travis couldn’t feel his legs – he sustained stab wounds to the center of his back that could have cut the part of the spinal cord (the dorsal columns) that carries the sensory feelings from the legs to the brain.

Losing feeling in the legs and not also the arms is too highly a specific symptom to just randomly make up. How could she make up the neurologically rare syndrome of not feeling one’s legs with only an 11th grade education, unless it actually happened? But, it is entirely plausible given TA’s stabs.

Two conclusions:

1. The fact that she stated the medically unique symptom that TA reported (indeed, so unique that she is unlikely to be able to make it up), indicates she remembers more of the knife struggle than she admits.

2. And, I’m sorry to say this… It helps further demonstrate how tortured TA was during the struggle. TA was conscious, getting weaker, and eventually couldn’t move because of blood loss, but likely also because he lost sensory function below the navel. And, worst of all….he would have been totally aware that it was happening.

Thanks for this detailed information! You will be an awesome asset here!!!

WELCOME!!:seeya:

 

[pip]

Dura Mater intact... oops, typographical error.

Uh huh, right. Dr. Horn's testimony continues to evolve to meet the circumstances.

It obviously was intact, as he states. Had it not been intact it would be a VERY crucial finding to illustrate to prove that the bullet entered thru to the brain.
Not to mention he continued to say his report was accurate, until the dura mater penetration vs. intact issue arose.

It sucks, but it is what it is. I would like to see her get the DP as it is well deserved, but I have to call out the ME. His testimony has been fishy from day one and gets more fishy every time he takes the stand to elaborate. :banghead: I hope the jurors can look past this and conclude that it was premeditated 1st degree murder, whether the knife or gun came first. It was.