Medication

[auntles]

If you are maintaining that Cindy's list of prescriptions will assist us in locating the body this weekend, or solving the mystery of Caylee's death I await evidence to tie those pieces of info together. I don't see the relevance because there isn't any.

I completely agree with you - it is totally irrelevant. Any meds that any family have taken or were taking at the time Caylee went missing (or before or after) sheds nothing as to what happened. The polygraph in and of itself is inadmissible - but it's results, which are used as a guideline are judged from the baseline reading - which is measurement at the time the test is being given. Many people "pass" the test as being honest and are lying - and many people "fail" and are being honest. Hence it's inadmissibility. Ongoing medical/Rx therapy isn't going to alter a person to any extent that would increase/decrease it's reliability or lack of reliability.
The bottom line is that any statements Cindy or anyone makes/has made would have to go through the normal legal process of questioning; cross-examination; etc- to be deemed believable or not.

 

[Chezhire]

Sorry you don't see the relevance. The point is I'm not buying that Cindy Anthony couldn't engage in a poly because of medicine she's taking. The pill popping excuse is a farce. Who's to say she's been scribed anything at all. She may be a boozer of a popper at will, who knows. If Nejame wants everyone to believe she's on medication, and she's spouting the same on national TV, then inquiring minds may want to know what that medicine is if it impedes a reading on a lie detector test - called a truth verifier in defense attorney circles.

I wonder if Caylee would have wanted Grandma to take the test.

...at this point, the merits of whether or not she's popping pills are ONLY relevant/important IF Cindy is being charged with a crime (which, at present, she's not) so what difference does it really make? (***No, I'm not saying that if she's on drugs and/or has been on drugs such that her mental state was impaired it doesn't have relevance to the upcoming trial, as it most certainly will, since she'll likely be called as a witness, willingly or not, to testify and I highly susect she'll attempt to *explain* her comments by saying she was drugged up, etc. NOT saying I buy this either, just sayin she'll likely say some jibberish along these lines, which will render her drug use relevant, but not for polygraph purposes )

Though I'm not a fan of Nejame's after his "performance" last night (I've posted ad nauseum about it, in fact) I don't think that Nejame even needs an excuse for Cindy not taking a lie detector test.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think it's the "best" choice in terms of helping LE find Caylee, but I do respect that since lie detector's aren't even admissible if one is charged with a crime, I respect that whether or not to take one is a choice Cindy, with the advice of her counsel, gets to make.

Personally, I'd have never (1) gone on national tv to discuss my clients' case; nor (2) even offered a reason for why a client of mine was not taking a test that is legally inadmissible due to the problems with said testing. Nejame's problem stems from the fact that he just couldn't resist going down the "public appearances" path here and now he's got egg on his face for it. :doh:

 

[AlwaysShocked]

"I'm sure she is on a high dose of Prozac with Valium to sleep - I'm sure she is a candidate of addiction also, she would need to be closely watched by a doctor"

The amount of misinformation about medications being bandied about on this thread literally scares me! Let alone the baseless conjecture about what someone is "sure of".

Sheesh!

 

[Fandy]

"I'm sure she is on a high dose of Prozac with Valium to sleep - I'm sure she is a candidate of addiction also, she would need to be closely watched by a doctor"

The amount of misinformation about medications being bandied about on this thread literally scares me! Let alone the baseless conjecture about what someone is "sure of".

Sheesh!

:clap::clap::clap:
That was the point I was making earlier....we don't KNOW what kind of meds she is on and for what condition she is being treated.

 

[Chezhire]

SNIPPED: "Since the defense team seems to suggest that Caylee was sedated, it may very well open Cindy's medicine cabinet. Certainly they were not prescribed for Caylee nor will the defense say that they were purchased by Casey on the black market if they want to contend an accidental ingestion....."

If the defense claims that Caylee died of an acciental overdose, then any drugs in close proximity to Caylee (eg, where she lived, played, etc.) will immediately become relevant, re: what dose, if any, would make them lethal for a child of Caylee's weight, etc.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

...at this point, the merits of whether or not she's popping pills are ONLY relevant/important IF Cindy is being charged with a crime (which, at present, she's not) so what difference does it really make? (***No, I'm not saying that if she's on drugs and/or has been on drugs such that her mental state was impaired it doesn't have relevance to the upcoming trial, as it most certainly will, since she'll likely be called as a witness, willingly or not, to testify and I highly susect she'll attempt to *explain* her comments by saying she was drugged up, etc. NOT saying I buy this either, just sayin she'll likely say some jibberish along these lines, which will render her drug use relevant, but not for polygraph purposes )

Though I'm not a fan of Nejame's after his "performance" last night (I've posted ad nauseum about it, in fact) I don't think that Nejame even needs an excuse for Cindy not taking a lie detector test.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think it's the "best" choice in terms of helping LE find Caylee, but I do respect that since lie detector's aren't even admissible if one is charged with a crime, I respect that whether or not to take one is a choice Cindy, with the advice of her counsel, gets to make.

Personally, I'd have never (1) gone on national tv to discuss my clients' case; nor (2) even offered a reason for why a client of mine was not taking a test that is legally inadmissible due to the problems with said testing. Nejame's problem stems from the fact that he just couldn't resist going down the "public appearances" path here and now he's got egg on his face for it. :doh:

Yes, I was trying to say that Nejame had the perfect set up and he blew it.

He could have handled this in a way to reflect positively upon his client.


He could have had her do the test. If they were unhappy with the results and couldn't go public with them (pre gag order if there is one), he could have gone a different route and held her out as all heroic.

Oh it was so important to her to do this she was willing to give it a shot even though she was well aware that the results would most likely be way off because blah blah blah...

And even though it was a longshot that results would be accurate, she took the test because blah blah blah importance of the truth blah.......

He could have spun her as heroic instead of hiding behind an excuse.

I realize she is under no obligation to do it legally. jmho

 

[jessunlil]

Several years ago I was also prescribed Xanax to help with driving issues. The first three days I was on it, I slept. Needless to say, I didn't drive during those three days while my body was adjusting to the med. After that, it really did help with anxiety and I was able to drive just fine. In fact, I got to the point that I no longer needed it in order to drive. Many physicians do prescribe this drug to help people cope with anxiety issues while driving.

So, a person should be able to drive just fine once he/she's adjusted to the meds.

It's interesting how different medications affect different people, isn't it?

I'm a pain in the butt to prescribe for because lots of things make me drowsy. (Finding an allergy med that didn't knock me out took a very long time ) I took Xanax for awhile but I never seemed to acclimate to it. It continued to make me drowsy.

I'm glad you were able to conquer your driving anxiety!
My psychiatrist found an anti-depressant that actually curbed my anxiety enough that I was able to conquer it too.

 

[jessunlil]

The amount of misinformation about medications being bandied about on this thread literally scares me! Let alone the baseless conjecture about what someone is "sure of".

I'm not sure of anything but I do hope that CA has sought help. GA too.
Lack of sleep alone can take a tremendous toll on a person.

 

[OneLostGrl]

OneLostGrl, I rarely disagree with you but on this one I will. It clearly states in the drug literature that you should not drive UNTIL you know how the drug affects you. From personal experience, I was on Xanax for over 20 years and if I DIDN'T take it I would be more reluctant to drive. Remember, many of these medications are given to correct a biochemical deficit - they make you more 'normal.'

I've taken and some of these I currently take are Prozac, Effexor, Lithium, Depakote, Xanax, Clonazepam, Propranolol, Welbutrin, Elavil just for starters. I've never had a problem driving once I've determined their affect on me. Once again, I state that these drugs are give to correct a biochemical imbalance not to get you "high" or dope you up.

I also would not take a polygraph due less to the medication than the panic attacks that can spring on me out of nowhere. I feel it would be my disorder that would present more of a problem than the drugs themselves.

Wow- Xanax for 20 years, holy cow- I cannot believe there is a doctor out there that would prescribe a benzo for such an extended time as it is clearly stated that because of the dependence issues benzos are not to be used for long term.

Benzo's are different than antidepressants and mood stabalizers and are prescribed not for a chemical imbalance but for anxiety. They are not given to "correct a biochemical imbalance" like the medications you list above, they are given to help people cope with their anxiety/panic issues (they are used or other things as well but I wont go into all that).

I realize I rarely give links to the information I provide in regard to mental illness and psych meds,that's because it comes out of my head (after being misdiagnosed and treated with improper medications for so many years I decided to educate myself so I would never again be a guinea pig) so some may not believe what I say.. but if I am ever questioned or asked, I am always able to provide a link to back up what I have stated. I don't just say things to say them, I don't make anything up- I promise! With that said, here is a link to the FDA drug literature about Xanax which states one should not drive while on Xanax. http://www.drugs.com/pro/xanax.html

"CNS Depression and Impaired Performance
Because of its CNS depressant effects, patients receiving Xanax should be cautioned against engaging in hazardous occupations or activities requiring
complete mental alertness such as operating machinery or driving a motor vehicle. For the same reason, patients should be cautioned about the simultaneous ingestion of alcohol and other CNS depressant drugs during treatment with Xanax."

Though I do admit later on at the same link they do say not to drive "until you know how it will effect you" but those warning lables are there for a reason and depending upon what state you reside in, if a person were to get into an accident or simply pulled over and given a roadside DUI test and they felt that person is under the influence of drugs, they could make them take a drug test and if it's found the person is under the infuence of a Benzo (or any Schedule I, II, III, IV, or V drug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act) that person could get a DUI or what is called driving under the influence of drugs (DUID).. prescribed medication or not! I'm not saying I agree with these laws, I am just saying they are laws that are in place!

As an example, Heather Locklear was just arrested for driving while under the influence of prescription medication- HER own prescription medication. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=30904

Here is a state by state guide for DUID laws http://www.abanet.org/subabuse/manualfinal.pdf


These are for California http://sandiegodwi.com/duid.html http://www.duicenter.com/lawyers/drugs_dui.html but are interesting because it gives information on drug recognition experts which many states are now beginning to use and it also gives a generalized drug detection period which IMO, people should be aware of if they are going to drive while on these types of meds if they don't want to get in trouble with the law!

http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?S=9141683

http://www.jointogether.org/news/research/pressreleases/2002/state-laws-on-driving-under.html

Listen, I'm not saying I think a person should get a DUI if they are taking their prescribed dose of a Benzo. The post you responded to of mine was me simply saying that while on Xanax one is not supposed to drive and it is the truth, people just may not be aware of it. They need to be because they may one day find themselves getting arrested for it!

I was on an excess of Klonopin for years (though, not 20 years Wow!), way more than what was prescribed and didn't get high from it, (it kept me sane from my OCD and panic/anxiety issues) and I always drove while on it but I also got arrested for driving while on it and had not had a dose of it in over 5 hours but it was in my blood so I was screwed.

Benzos cause other issues besides getting one "high".. they causes your blood pressure to lower, your reaction time to slow.. they are also known to increase irritability, aggression, hostility and impulsivity and can actually increase the symptoms that you began taking it for in the first place (some of the reasons I tend to think it's a benzo Cindy A has been on). And Tolerance builds quickly so while we think it may no longer be doing much for us because it doesn't make us sleepy, it is in fact still causing all these side effects except for making us sleepy!

So while we may be able to drive while on Xanax and other benzos legally, in some states (the number of states is growing rapidly) it is not wise to do so!

The best thing that ever happened to me was getting caught selling my prescriptions, it made me hit my "bottom" and once I got through with the withdrawl and got well I realized the negative effects the benzos had on me.

If more links are needed for anything I have stated here, please let me know so I can provide them!

 

[OneLostGrl]

I commented about this last night on the NG thread and in hindsight I wish I hadn't. I got caught up in the moment and I think it was inappropriate of me to say anything.

Can you imagine the incredible amount of stress that family is under? I wouldn't blame them at all. Additionally, I think it's really crummy that we're speculating about what kind of medication they (CA was eluded to last night but I'm keeping this open) are taking. I would think that with all that's going on it would reasonable to assume their blood pressure is elevated. It could be a thyroid medication-thyroid problems increase anxiety and other issues and take several weeks to really work.

I know that the A's have been less than forthcoming in this whole mess but is it really OK to 'go there' with trying to figure out what sorts of psychotropic drugs they are on?

And yes, you can drive on xanax. As stated before once you know how it affects you you are good to go. (I say this is a recovering benzo addict)

I agree that CA isn't the most likeable person on earth but she is, afterall, a grandmother who has lost her only grandchild to a tragic, horrific event due to her daughter's actions. Can you even imagine what she's going through? I don't know how I would react. I would think that most of her actions have just been defense mechanisms. Let's have a little bit of sympathy and compassion for this family.

As a recovering Benzo addict I'd think you would know the signs and symptoms of Benzo usage. Also, you may want to read the information I gave in my last post regarding driving while on Benzos, you are not "good to go" once you know how it effects you, you are misinformed.

 

[Bev]

I don't know how Cindy makes herself get out of bed in the morning. I don't know if I could.

 

[OneLostGrl]

:clap::clap::clap:
That was the point I was making earlier....we don't KNOW what kind of meds she is on and for what condition she is being treated.

You are correct, we don't KNOW- but certain types of drugs cause certain types of symptoms, side effects and behaviors and based on those things one can take a pretty educated (whether educated by schooling and books or life experience) guess.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't know how Cindy makes herself get out of bed in the morning. I don't know if I could.

Me either. I'd have killed myself by now, I have no doubt!

 

[Im On It]

Tonite, on NG, MN said CA was on "medication" that would not qualify her to take a polygraph. What meds out there could do this?

Well we know it's not Sodium Pentothal!

 

[CaliKid]

Oh for sure, I'd be a basket case. But I'd be a truthful basket case, not into denying what's right in front of me.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Well we know it's not Sodium Pentothal!

ha. yeah, no kidding!

 

[butwhatif?]

Tonite, on NG, MN said CA was on "medication" that would not qualify her to take a polygraph. What meds out there could do this?

Valium, xanax etc...most antianxiety meds would effect the reliability of results.
They ease alot of anxiety responses like rapid heartrate, blushing, sweating and all the rest.
If these are the responses that are being tested with a polygraph, it could affect the result.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Valium, xanax etc...most antianxiety meds would effect the reliability of results.
They ease alot of anxiety responses like rapid heartrate, blushing, sweating and all the rest.
If these are the responses that are being tested with a polygraph, it could affect the result.

Absolutely, it's the whole point of benzos! Benzos are also known to cause emotional blunting... "flat effect"

 

[pb6656]

I don't think it would be so hard to understand that any meds could affect the outcome of a lie detector test. I was in the hospital recently and at any given time - my BP was from 210 over 107 to 116 over 68. Depended on a lot of things from when they gave me my meds to when my father called the bed next to me instead of mine.

Anything that affexcts BP could affect a lie detector test. I think she is right for not taking one. She is certainly under a lot of pressure.

 

[butwhatif?]

Cindy mentioned she was on meds last month during a Today Show interview and immediately our hinkey meters should have gone off the chart. People don't run around telling others they are on medication. No doubt Nejame advised Cindy to mention her med swallowing when possible in order to cast aside any pressure of her taking a test at any time.

Was Cindy a pill popper before she hired Nejame?
What medication is she on?
What case law can be cited to detemine that this specific medication or combo thereof is responsible for bad poly readings?

Many of us here openly discuss our medications. I dont think its suspect.