Members' Theories

[madeleine]

A serial killer/rapist,sadistic killer would have done it again.
A Ramsey would have cracked by now I guess.

So maybe the simple answer is that it was a kidnapping gone wrong/amateurs who are still thanking God for how incompetent LE was and for how lucky they were not to get caught even if their names are in those files and they knew the Ramsey family.

:twocents:

 

[WHITEFANG]

The FBI was suspicious within minutes. With the BPD, a bit later but still that first day. When French arrived that morning minutes after the call, he did not suspect the parents, neither did Arndt when she first arrived. But both officers were closely watching the behavior of the parents (Patsy peeking out behind her fingers to see if they were watching her for one, the apparent distance between JR and Patsy etc.) But at that point it was still a kidnapping. But when JR found her, that's when Arndt began to suspect the parents (specifically JR).

That's when she made a mental count of the number of bullets she had in her gun, right at that moment.

As to how the parents would be expected to react on finding that they were the suspects- well, of course, they'd be upset whether they were guilty or not. That question really doesn't add much to the investigation. If they were innocent, they'd be upset and horrified. If they were guilty they'd be upset that whatever they were trying to portray wasn't working.
Either way, the relationship between the family and LE was bound to become adversarial as soon as defense lawyers were hired and the body was found in the home.
As far as Hunter driving the investigation- not sure if it is the same in every district, but here, if the parents wouldn't go willingly to the station (they were under no obligation to do this, and by that time they already had lawyers who may have told them not to go) then an arrest warrant is needed and the DA issues that. If that hadn't been the case, the BPD would have arrested them. But they still wouldn't have to talk to police. But I'd think if they were innocent they'd want to, even if they felt police thought they were guilty. I'd be doing everything I could to change their minds.
Whenever parents of a murdered (or missing) child won't talk to police, it would be viewed as suspicious behavior. When such interviews have to be brokered by defense attorneys, it seems suspicious as well. The R lawyers were hired to keep them out of jail- this by the Rs admission as well as the lawyers. That's what defense lawyers do- they really don't care about solving the crime, they don't care WHO gets found guilty as long as it isn't their clients. Not just this case, ANY case. And in cases where the client's guilt is obvious, they'll plea bargain or try an insanity defense.

 

[madeleine]

LHP referring to the ligature, "I remember just such a cord wrapped in just such a way around a box in the basement next to where her body was found." LHP She didn't know where that room was, I thought.

No,I meant this:

ST book,page 38

"Is she missing or dead?" he(M.Pugh) asked."How did she die,was it natural,strangulation,or what?"

 

[WHITEFANG]

No,I meant this:

ST book,page 38

"Is she missing or dead?" he(M.Pugh) asked."How did she die,was it natural,strangulation,or what?"

A bit suspicious, but not over the top, do you think?

 

[DeeDee249]

All that trouble to test the pineapple and no body tested for DNA on the spoon?

I know- That was one of the travesties of the investigation. That spoon would surely have yielded something. The glass with the tea bag, too. Had that little paper tag on the tea bag been tested for prints, DNA? I bet not. Does it still exist in an evidence locker? If so, TEST it.

 

[WHITEFANG]

I know- That was one of the travesties of the investigation. That spoon would surely have yielded something. The glass with the tea bag, too. Had that little paper tag on the tea bag been tested for prints, DNA? I bet not. Does it still exist in an evidence locker? If so, TEST it.

There is info withheld from public consumption in order to trap the killer, I imagine.

 

[DeeDee249]

There is info withheld from public consumption in order to trap the killer, I imagine.

I hope so, I really do. I WANT to believe they have an ace up their sleeve, but I FEAR they are wearing tank tops....

 

[WHITEFANG]

I hope so, I really do. I WANT to believe they have an ace up their sleeve, but I FEAR they are wearing tank tops....

I bet they want to solve this case and are working on it behind the scenes. I think they know more than they are telling the public for various reasons.

This disaster is a black eye on Boulder and Colorado. Even though it has faded from national consciousness, it remains very much a thorn in the flesh of any number of authority figures, IMO. It is an aching and challenging unsolved murder mystery to some living in diverse places, too.

There is an outfit called "fair justice" or something like that in Georgia which is pursuing the case. A number of highly qualified people are involved as volunteers I think. JR is active in it, too, if I'm not mistaken. And, there are some very intelligent, capable sleuths right here right now who are advancing the cause of justice. As SD said (I think he said it), even if our disagreements only serve to further the goal of attaining the real and complete story, what we are doing is important.

 

[BBB167893]

Who cares about you? Who wants to know anything about you?

You do, apparently. Because you keep making me the issue.

You ponder, speculate and imagine unspeakable horrors about innocent people and plaster your guesses across the WWW.

Just like you do.

You don't know what pain is compared to parents who have lost a child to murder, brutal murder.

That's certainly true. Trouble is, you don't seem to think much of the people who HAVE.

No evidence.

Ha, I says!

 

[BBB167893]

So, a bit like you, he waffled on interminably, putting forth his own agenda, avoided the question, but in the end, the answer you should have given was a simple No, he didn't reveal his evidence. In truth, again like you, he didn't really have any.

Did you talk to him?

Let me see if I have this right. Lewis (of the Globe) hired a lawyer come 'handwriting expert' (Miller) to try to bribe a handwriting expert hired by the R's (Vacca) to hand over a copy of the RN.

Not really. Miller was unaware of the plan to bribe anyone. He was roped in under false pretenses.

Vacca reported this illegal attempt to bribe him to the DA.

Yes. They refused to pursue the case.

Miller later obtained a copy of the RN through other means and (surprise, surprise) concluded PR wrote it.

I don't get what you mean. Miller was not hired by the GLOBE to analyze the note. He did that on his own.

The R's lawyers became aware of the Vacca bribery attempt and then contacted the DA and the criminals (Miller and Lewis) were arrested and charged with bribery and extortion. The DA offered them both a deal - to the Globe editor, Lewis - a 'fine' of $100,000, which was accepted. Miller (a Lawyer who should have known better), was offered to go free if he gave up his law licence and his (suspect) 'handwriting credentials'.

Something like that. I'm not sure when they became aware of it. Although, I'm not sure what you mean by "suspect." "Supect" according to WHOM? They didn't take any interest in him until AFTER he'd done his analysis. You have to wonder why, right? Obviously, his credentials couldn't have been that dubious if he scared them enough to try something like this, rather than take their chances with him at trial.

He refused. The case went to court. Miller was found not guilty. End of story. If it's true!!

According to the trial transcript, it is. And you left out a very important point:

"Miller's lawyer got two members of Hal Haddon's firm to admit to using dirty tricks."

And all this is supposed to freak me out!

Damn right! Think about what the Rs lawyers tried to do here. Nobody should wield that kind of power and not be accountable.

Sorry SD, but I don't freak that easy.

I guess not.

Except to say that Miller should have been struck off and was damned lucky to get let off.

"Struck off?" I'm not much on these expressions. And luck had nothing to do with it. Anyone could see it was a political prosecution, bought and paid-for.

This just sounds like another of your overdramatised rehashed versions of what may or may not have occurred.

According to the trial transcripts, that's what occurred. Lee Foreman admitted it in open court.

How you can present it as evidence against the R's beats me.

That's a different issue. It's only direct evidence against the Rs if they knew about it. Whether they did or not, my point was to show the unchecked power that the Haddon law firm wielded and the old-boys-network nature of Colorado politics and law, because by illustrating those, one gains a greater understanding of why this case is in the damn rotten shape it's in.

 

[BBB167893]

Well, I am freaked out. Why didn't he get disbarred for trying to bribe Vacca?

Because he didn't bribe anyone. Thought I made that clear.

 

[BBB167893]

A serial killer/rapist,sadistic killer would have done it again.

Agreed.

A Ramsey would have cracked by now I guess.

I don't know, maddy. There are guys who've been in prison 30 years who STILL say they didn't do it. Jeffrey MacDonald leaps to mind. Michael Skakel kept his secret for--what was it, 20 years? I'm not trying to beat you over the head. I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from.

 

[BBB167893]

This disaster is a black eye on Boulder and Colorado. Even though it has faded from national consciousness, it remains very much a thorn in the flesh of any number of authority figures, IMO. It is an aching and challenging unsolved murder mystery to some living in diverse places, too.

No argument. But I wonder just how diligently it's being pursued, just for the reasons you suggest. They call this a cold case, but as anyone who worked on it can tell you, it's not cold; it's radioactive. No one wants to get near it.

There is an outfit called "fair justice" or something like that in Georgia which is pursuing the case. A number of highly qualified people are involved as volunteers I think. JR is active in it, too, if I'm not mistaken.

I'll have to take a look.

And, there are some very intelligent, capable sleuths right here right now who are advancing the cause of justice. As SD said (I think he said it), even if our disagreements only serve to further the goal of attaining the real and complete story, what we are doing is important.

Thanks! I agree completely.

 

[MurriFlower]

Because he didn't bribe anyone. Thought I made that clear.

WF said 'trying to bribe'. Vacca refused and dobbed on him instead.

It's like 'trying to shoot' or 'trying to strangle', is not called murder, but attempted murder. Not having succeeded doesn't mean he is not guilty of an attempt to bribe or extort.

 

[BBB167893]

WF said 'trying to bribe'. Vacca refused and dobbed on him instead.

It's like 'trying to shoot' or 'trying to strangle', is not called murder, but attempted murder. Not having succeeded doesn't mean he is not guilty of an attempt to bribe or extort.

That's a very clever turn of a phrase, MurriFlower. But you know darn well what I mean.

He was prosecuted for saying PR wrote the note, pure and simple.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Because he didn't bribe anyone. Thought I made that clear.

Wrong.

How do you know? Did he try? Did you see the expression on his face when he was interviewed?

THE PAIN

 

[WHITEFANG]

Agreed.



I don't know, maddy. There are guys who've been in prison 30 years who STILL say they didn't do it. Jeffrey MacDonald leaps to mind. Michael Skakel kept his secret for--what was it, 20 years? I'm not trying to beat you over the head. I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from.

I don't know either, but the Ramseys weren't hardened criminals so they would have cracked in my opinion.

 

[WHITEFANG]

=SuperDave;5330579]You do, apparently. Because you keep making me the issue.

Nice try, I guess.

That's certainly true. Trouble is, you don't seem to think much of the people who HAVE.

​

Talk about Marilyn Monroe some more.

 

[WHITEFANG]

No argument. But I wonder just how diligently it's being pursued, just for the reasons you suggest. They call this a cold case, but as anyone who worked on it can tell you, it's not cold; it's radioactive. No one wants to get near it. I'll have to take a look. Thanks! I agree completely.

Don't look too closely at the Georgia bunch. It might freak you out!

 

[WHITEFANG]

No argument. But I wonder just how diligently it's being pursued, just for the reasons you suggest. They call this a cold case, but as anyone who worked on it can tell you, it's not cold; it's radioactive. No one wants to get near it.



I'll have to take a look.

Do. We wait for thine response.