*MERGED THREADS*GUILTY or NOT GUILTY? (Florida jury instructions added)

[surini59]

My vote....Guilty....1st degree

 

[scmom]

IMO the prosecution has presented the necessary evidence. Unless the defense is able, somehow, to create a reasonable doubt with their case.

 

[gibby207]

more than once I have had the feeling that they made up their minds before this was half way to this point...

I almost get the feeling that if they could , they would already have renderred their verdict and gone home.

Dont ask me for proof, its just an opinion...

Yes. Ditto. I agree. It's almost like they are going thru the motions now. lol And, like you, I think they made up their minds before halfway. moo

 

[erinleigh]

I would hope that even if the jurors decide they cannot conclude whether it was an accident or murder 1 they still convict of many felonys for hiding the body, not telling wheere the body was to prove the drowing, murder/manslaughter for not calling 911 to try to help caylee, failure to render aid, lying to police ect and have all the sentences not run concurrant

 

[erinleigh]

the fact that the DT placed ICA at the time of death with the adding factor of the ridiculous of GA and RK being involved make it so clear to me that she is guilty. her willingness to go with that defense screams guilty. honest accidents do not turn into this circus. i mean are we really supposed to believe ICA sat in jail 3 years and lied and lied and is willing to face the DP for an accidental drowing?

 

[mrsu]

Did you miss Dr. G? :waitasec:

No I did not. Please don't flame me, I was just being honest. :innocent:

Here was my post on a different thread re: those who hadn't followed the case until now:

I have watched nearly every day, every hour of the trial, however I had not much followed the case until now. I had heard about it, and the lie about Zanny, but didn't know how long it was before she was found or any other circumstances.

I think the State has done an exceptional job for Caylee. I can say before all of it started I thought, "she probably did it" just after knowing Zanny never existed and nothing was reported. I would say I am about 90% convinced Casey is guilty. It's funny I was just talking to my neighbor last night and was saying it will be interesting to see if my thoughts change when the DT calls their witnesses.

Some thoughts I've had since the trial started:
- Had Casey been chloroforming Caylee for months and leaving her in her car? I just can't forget when Ricardo said he woke up that one night and Caylee and Casey were gone. When he woke up in the morning, Casey was there but Caylee was not. When he asked where Caylee was Casey said she had taken her to her mom. However, we now know that Caylee was not with Cindy...where was she??????

- I do believe the trip to Puerto Rico kind of started the ball rolling in all this. I think she was really wanting to go, especially because her BF was going. When Cindy said she wouldn't watch Caylee I think it really angered Casey and she realized how much of an "inconvenience" Caylee was. Not sure what to make of the chloroform searches other than they took place around the PR trip when her friends were there and she was not. Do we know if the chloroform searches happened BEFORE the night Ricardo woke up and Caylee was gone??

- I don't believe George molested Casey, and don't believe he has anything to do with a cover up. I think that because of his background as a police officer, he may have suspected something had happened with Caylee, but his heart wanted to believe that his own daughter would never be capable of something like that.

- I don't think Cindy is guilty of anything but being blindsided by the fact that her daughter is a sociopath. I can't imagine how hard that would be and how much guilt she feels. I think she very much feels if she would have agreed to watch Caylee some of the times she was asked, Caylee might still be here.

- Regardless of the family dynamics, I personally couldn't imagine what it would be like to lose your granddaughter and then find out that your own child could be this much of a monster and you never saw it.

- I'm not sure what to think of Lee. I don't think he had a role in the disappearance, but I'm not convinced he didn't sexually abuse Casey. Like someone asked above, why wasn't he asked that?

- I'm very interested to hear more about Roy Kronk. I don't know much about him, but will say the DT has made me want to look more into him. I also wonder how he came upon the body after so many searchers missed it. From the pics it looked like even the garbage bag was barely visible yet someone going for a pee notices it? How long did he know about it before he reported it? First in Aug...why wasn't it followed up on? One would think they would be all over that since it was not too long after she was missing. Then again in Dec.? What was he doing all those months? And the weird comments to his son?

- With the above said, I do not buy that Roy found the body and placed it there, BUT the events surrounding it all, do make him seem suspicious.

- I do believe Caylee was in the trunk until the smell got too strong, then she was dumped. I'm curious about the decomp that was found in the Anthony's backyard and why she would have her back there. Maybe that's where she bagged her up? Why would she remove her from the trunk to do that?

- I'm not 100% it was intentional. My thought is this. Let's say she had been chloroforming Caylee and keeping her in the trunk for short times while she was out with her friends. I think it could have been that she chloroformed her and put a piece of duct tape over just her mouth so in the event that she woke up, she couldn't scream. She could have wrapped it around her head so she wouldn't just be able to pull the strip off her mouth. I think maybe this time she didn't wake up and Casey panicked. She couldn't call 911 because obviously she had chloroformed her kid and that would be found.

- If it was intentional, I still wonder how she did it. Suffocation by duct tape? If that's the case, there is really no need for chloroform.

As of right now, with some of the questions above, I do not think I could convict beyond a reasonable doubt. YET! It is SUCH a shame that her body was not found sooner. I feel like I am a very logical person who thinks with my "head" rather than my "heart" in cases like this. I definitely believe the science of it all, but I wish we had a little bit more that pointed to premeditation by Casey and it makes me sad to say that. :/

HOWEVER, all that said, I do believe the State's case MUCH MORE than what the defense has presented so far. IMO the DT will have to do a flawless job of explaining the scenario and how exactly Kronk came across the body etc. If it's something stupid like George paid him off, no way the Jury will buy that. I'm not sure Baez is capable of that.

I also think it would be fascinating to have the jury take a poll each week that asks if they think guilty or innocent and see how their opinions change (if ever) over the course of the trial. I know it would never happen, but I can't help but wonder.

Also, for the record, I am 100% TEAM CAYLEE.

I am also one of those people who 48 HOURS MYSTERY drives absolutely batty and I don't know if I could truly convict someone without having a little bit of doubt. That scares me...maybe there is someone on the jury like that too?

 

[mrsu]

Let me also add this....reading some of the previous posts in this thread, I'm not sure how I missed this, but I didn't realize their were THREE pieces of duct tape!!!! Again, please be assured I am not a dumb blonde , I guess by listening to some of the things said about the tape on HLN and IS, I was imaging something different. Since that's the case, I wish there was a better display of how the duct tape was placed. I think it confused me when they were saying that a single strip could certainly cover both the nose and mouth so I was not thinking about 3 strips. Why such the focus on that super imposed video with a skull and the tape then?

The only other thing that holds a teeny doubt...I think there is a very small chance that she chloroformed her and that she just never woke up, whether it was intentional or not. Then thought to add duct tape after the fact to make it look like it could have been a kidnapping.

 

[Nosee_Parker]

I just don't know what the outcome will be. In fact, I voted 'mistrial' because I wish there was an 'undecided' option in the poll. Regardless of what we think, I suspect the jury will need to look at intent/premeditation and solid evidence. I don't actually think there is concrete evidence supporting those variables.

Part of me thinks there was definitely a cover-up. I do happen to think ICA is very void of emotion and certainly didn't display the traits of a mother who's daughter had been kidnapped during those 31 days but there's just something I can't put my finger on.

If I were on that jury I would probably be confused .... therein lies the problem of a conviction.

 

[erinleigh]

Not having a cause of death. - unfortunately Caylee was just bones when found..not much can be told there unless she had trama to her bones, with there being none but there was duct tape on her mouth I would lean towards suffocation as the SA are doing

Not understanding why Caylee's body was in the backyard; since the dogs found the "scent of decomposition" in the Anthony backyard. On 6/17 I believe KC went to bury Caylee back there...backed into the garage, unloaded her to the backyard, laid her down by her playhouse, went to the neighbor's to borrow a shovel since GA had his locked up in his sheds. She then decided it was too hard to dig and/or figured probably not the best place since the smell coming from Caylee was strong so she loaded her back into the trunk and returned the shovel

Not understanding why KC borrowed a neighbor's shovel, since there were shovels in the Antony's garage. See above...the photos of the garage we saw with shovels were the neighbor's garage..I believe the A's had that stuff locked in a shed that she didn't have the keys to

I have a problem with the Jury asking to see the "heart evidence" - since I didn't think Jurors were allowed to discuss the case or evidence prior to deliberations. I believe when they were let go for break they probably or maybe just one said hey we didn't see that evidence that was admitted right before we were on break. I don't think it was discussed as to what the sticker was doing there but just they weren't shown it but it was put into evidence

for me i would have no trouble rendering a guilty verdict on all those points because its CASEYS fault we dont know this. she could have led LE to the body to prove the drowing.

 

[erinleigh]

My vote/version of what I think happened probably isn't a popular one. I kind of see things a little differently. I do think she's guilty.

However, I do think she loved Caylee based on what we've heard from others, how we saw the way she acted with her in videos, how they both seemed to be happy in pictures, how she (Casey) had lots of Caylee related things all over her walls and room, etc.

Having said that, I think Caylee's death was an accident. HOW, I don't know. I just don't think she plotted and planned to kill her out of maliciousness or something sinister. I think an accident occurred and she panicked and tried to hide the body.

Of course her behavior after the fact is still a little strange and doesn't add up to what I think. Meaning, even if it were an accident and she felt bad, you'd think that she'd at least still feel bad, guilty, appear sad, depressed, SOMETHING along those lines. And yet we know that she seemed happy, normal, etc. So, that I don't get.

But, if I were on the jury I guess I'd have to find her Guilty of First Degree Murder based on how I see things. JMO

how lucky for Casey that Caylee just happened to accidentally die the day she had no sitter to go to TonEs house. notice the accident didnt phase her enough to show even the slightest emotion that day for Caylee. An accident would truly rock your world. no way no matter how u dissociate would you be fine and dandy and ready for date night hours after an accident. and please dont think im being rude to you. im truly not. i respect all thoughts and opinions just sometime feel the need to respond with a differnt thought.

 

[erinleigh]

No I did not. Please don't flame me, I was just being honest. :innocent:

Here was my post on a different thread re: those who hadn't followed the case until now:

how would she have planned on removing the duct tape from Caylees hair? the aggravated way it was placed seems to lead to intent for that tape to stay

 

[Sammiejam]

The only other thing that holds a teeny doubt...I think there is a very small chance that she chloroformed her and that she just never woke up, whether it was intentional or not. Then thought to add duct tape after the fact to make it look like it could have been a kidnapping.

Snipped for space.

Mrsu, chloroforming a 2 year old who does not wake up from the drugging is actually classed as aggravated child abuse. Under Florida law that makes her GUILTY of murder in the first degree.

All that will be spelled out to the jury in the instructions. I think she is toast!

 

[Peachy Keen]

Guilty---First Degree Felony Murder

I think she will get LWOP.

 

[Mare10]

I think she will be found Guilty. I know she is guilty. With that said, I will have to wait to hear what the DT case will be. The jurors do not know all that I know and they have not seen all that I have seen. All they know is what is presented to them as evidence (circumstantial and physical). Also, I am sure they are watching her behavior in court. I do want to hear and see what the DT will supply as evidence of innocence. If they go with the "we don't have to" route, then she's toast. If they have tangible evidence that actually cannot be rebutted by the SA, this may give some reasonable doubt. I have not seen anything that would support that and I've been following this case from Day 31. So, I will wait to vote but in my mind and heart she is guilty. Just hope the jury sees it after a week of the DT mind warping questioning.

 

[ami]

Did Dr. G say that even if ICA came across Caylee in the pool and did nothing to save her life (calling 911, paramedics, trying CPR) then it's also criminal murder? I think I recall her saying something like that?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Guilty murder in the first degree..It makes me no difference if she lives or dies...whatever His Honor sees fit, is good enough for me...

Why did it take almost three years for ICA to tell the ahem, cough, cough, truth?:maddening: Because that is NOT the truth of what happened to Caylee and I don't believe we will ever get the truth from the untruthful one...

I hope the state uses a culmination of reasons, if they do at all..they do not have to prove motive...ICA has the means and the opportunity, she's been planning this for a while...all it takes is one second to commit the act of premediation...I believe as I stated very early in this case, this alleged altercation, which turned physical (june 15, 2008) was the catalyst for Caylee's demise..but many 'things' led up to this final act of revenge...

The contentious relationship between CA and ICA...CA sends mixed signals, ICA was emotionally/verbally abused by CA..I do not believe the sexual abuse the DT alleges against GA...not in a NY minute...

Her newfound friends were going to PR on vacation, ICA wanted to go but CA would NOT babysit Caylee...

TonyL mentions to ICA when he has children, he'd want boys and not girls for their too much trouble...

Caylee loved CA very much, a grandmothers love is special. ICA took it as CA was taking over the mother role to Caylee...all ICA was, was the 'nanny'...ICA was being a neglectful parent to Caylee...CA gave ICA an ultimatum...straighten up and fly right or I will take Caylee...no way would ICA give custody to CA...if ICA can't have her, no one will...a sadistic and vengeful part of ICA....

See, this is where the DT should have gone, that ICA took on the persona of this babysitter she made up in her mind...since CA was funding/supporting them both...but in Baez' OS, ICA takes no responsibility at all for Caylee's death...even to the fact it was GA who set up his daughter, placed Caylee in her car so that she would be charged with murder???? Doesn't make sense and how in the world did RK gain custody of Caylee's remains? Doesn't make sense...so, in the great words of wisdom from Judge Judy...if it doesn't make sense, it doesn't hold true...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[SMK]

I would hope that even if the jurors decide they cannot conclude whether it was an accident or murder 1 they still convict of many felonys for hiding the body, not telling wheere the body was to prove the drowing, murder/manslaughter for not calling 911 to try to help caylee, failure to render aid, lying to police ect and have all the sentences not run concurrant

I think you are right. There is so much negligent and criminal activity there, and none of it can be disputed.

 

[Sapphire74]

Guilty. First degree murder.

Not sure if she will get LWOP or DP.

However, IF She gets LWOP, is that considered a "win" or "success" for Baez? Such as, since he saved her from the DP, will he be considered an amazing attorney? For the record, I believe he lacks integrity, skill, (ethically and morally bankrupt -- isn't that what he said of RK?) and he is willing to lie for this case. I hope that Baez walks away as a failure because of how smarmy he appears to be.

Moo

So again, Guilty -- first degree murder

 

[Nali87]

Guilty. First degree murder.

Not sure if she will get LWOP or DP.

However, IF She gets LWOP, is that considered a "win" or "success" for Baez? Such as, since he saved her from the DP, will he be considered an amazing attorney? For the record, I believe he lacks integrity, skill, (ethically and morally bankrupt -- isn't that what he said of RK?) and he is willing to lie for this case. I hope that Baez walks away as a failure because of how smarmy he appears to be.

Moo

So again, Guilty -- first degree murder

He can never make a comeback from the pitifulness that were his cross-examinations.

I think if Casey gets life instead of the death penalty it will have more to do with the judge and jury being merciful, than anything JB will ever do/say. He couldn't even get his opening statment right “In the early morning, the time is not known … it could have been early afternoon, er … early morning, er … actually, it was the early morning hours…”

:floorlaugh:

 

[leandjl]

Guilty - Caylee didn't get a pass and neither should Casey regardless of how/why it happened.