MI MI - New Buffalo, "Betty the Bag Lady", WhtFem 65-75, UP8224, wrapped in sheet/towel/2 bags, Aug'92

[not_my_kids]

I looked for a thread and didn't find one for her, so I thought I would give her one.
She was found 8-23-1992 in New Buffalo Twp. Mi. She she was found near to Red Arrow Highway. She had been put in a plastic bag, left along Krueger Road, Berrien County, MI.
Her body was found wrapped in a sheet, towel and two garbage bags, and bound with twine. She was nude, and the hands and dentures were missing.
Investigators think she may have lived at a care facility in either northern Illinois or Indiana.
She was 65-75, 5'2 tall and weighed 102 pounds. She had white hair and brown eyes. She also had an appendectomy scar, and a broken spine, although that was not what killed her.
She was murdered, 4-7 days before she was found, but had only been at the place she was found for about 48 hours.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/129ufmi.html

I have scoured the Web, and the only possibility that I come up with for the time frame is this woman.
http://charleyproject.org/cases/k/kutnak_bessie.html
and she's too tall and too heavy.

I have been thinking that there was probably a family member that took her out of a group home, or maybe even a husband and then killed her, but it could also have been an employee of the facility if they had been stealing from her or something like that.

I felt she deserved her own thread and I really did search for her.

(Could someone else please put her reconstructions up? I have a really hard time with that.)TIA.

 

[not_my_kids]

http://charleyproject.org/cases/l/long_carolyn.html

I also came up with this one, height and weight are good, time frame's a little off and she is from the other end of the country.
But, could still be possible. Age is off too.

Little better, although the age and time are off, but not by as much.
http://charleyproject.org/cases/s/smith_betty.html
Weight, height; correct. Younger than Doe, disappeared October of the year before, has a hysterectomy, not an appendectomy, and had broken her hip, not her spine. But it's closer, disappeared from New Jersey. I don't put much stock in eye color, especially in August, in MI. She was killed by her husband, who also killed his first wife, her legs were cut off at the knee, so he likes to cut people up.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

not_my_kids, have you looked through Wisconsin missing persons? I haven't started looking, I am just wondering if you've focused your search terms on anything in particular.

The UID was found close to Indiana/Illinois as far as distance to this part of MI, but Wisconsin doesn't seem too far away, either. (With her hands and dentures missing, someone didn't want her identified, for sure.)

 

[not_my_kids]

There really aren't many missing women in that age range from that time frame. I think that the investigators are right, she did have to be from somewhere close. I can't see a woman recuperating from a broken spine willingly signing up for a long drive. I haven't really focused on any one area, I've been focusing more on her age and physical injuries, since those set her apart.
I've been thinking of calling the detectives to find out if they will tell me why they think she came from IL or IN and also to verify the listing of her injuries.

 

[mtrooper]

I was looking this over and I think there might be somthing to this. Let me know what you think. There is a bit of a conspiracy theory when it comes to Ida's dissapearance, so the cut off hands would make sense. She had been in and out of the mental hospital in Ann Arbor which is not too far from the indiana border.
http://peace4missing.ning.com/group/mothersarevanishing/forum/topics/ida-dean-richardson-anderson

 

[mtrooper]

They mention that her hands were missing, do we know if they were cut off or if animals had helped themselves. I would assume since she was wrapped up that they hands were missing due to being cut off, but you know what they say about assumtions. I also wonder what the cause of death was. And why they think she came from a home.

 

[Spurser]

They mention that her hands were missing, do we know if they were cut off or if animals had helped themselves. I would assume since she was wrapped up that they hands were missing due to being cut off, but you know what they say about assumtions. I also wonder what the cause of death was. And why they think she came from a home.

(Bolded by me) I also wonder why they think she was from a care facility. It seems that it would be pretty easy to obtain a list of discharged patients/residents of area nursing homes, etc. from the time period. Maybe a relative checked her out and told the facility that she was going to be living with them. Then they killed her so they could get her check every month. It happens. Maybe it was an accident but they didn't want to lose the check so they dumped her in such a way that she couldn't be traced back to them.

 

[Spurser]

it could also have been an employee of the facility if they had been stealing from her or something like that.

I felt she deserved her own thread and I really did search for her.

(Could someone else please put her reconstructions up? I have a really hard time with that.)TIA.

(Snipped) I doubt it was an employee because the facility would have to report any incident in which a resident eloped (disappeared, wandered off, etc.). Adminstration of such a facility would be all over that and it would have been discovered by now who she was. Plus, it would be easier for the employee to just kill her at the facility (smother, medication, etc).

 

[Snufamonbobball]

I was thinking maybe the sheets seemed like they were from a hospital. Maybe her killer worked at a home? That lady from NJ who chopped up her husband used sheets or a blanket where she worked.

 

[mtrooper]

I spoke with the MSP and they said that a profile was done on her by a psychologist and that is why they thought that she came from some sort of home. There was no "real" evidence to support it, just a hunch from the profiler. Her hands were "removed" by a human, not torn off by animals. They do have her DNA on file, but no idea as to the cause of death. I would like to see her uninterred to get a better look at the bones. I think it is much more difficult to get an accurate cause of death once the body becomes badly decomposed. At least with the bones we could get a more accurate age, and possible cause of death.

 

[mtrooper]

I also have to agree that if she walked away from a home or was taken out on a day trip by family that they would have had to report her missing. The only other thing I can think of is somthing smaller like an Adult Foster Care home, maybe she was accidently overdosed and they dont want to get in trouble and lose their license, so they just say she moved and no one knows other wise.

 

[not_my_kids]

They are disseminating information that has no real basis in fact?
I don't know whether to blame DOE or blame the MSP, but I really want to blame someone for that. That makes me so mad.

By the way, thank you mtrooper for making those calls. I can only keep up with so many at a time.

 

[mtrooper]

I know this is somewhat unrelated, but has anyone read the book Deaths Acre by Bill Bass? He is the one who created the first body farm. They study decomposition and are the best at determining time since death based on the rate of deacy. VERY good book! Makes me look at a lot of the does from a different perspective.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

I know this is somewhat unrelated, but has anyone read the book Deaths Acre by Bill Bass? He is the one who created the first body farm. They study decomposition and are the best at determining time since death based on the rate of deacy. VERY good book! Makes me look at a lot of the does from a different perspective.

He also has a book called Beyond the Body Farm. It's also very good- I have them both in print and on audio book- its far more interesting to listen to than the same blah, blah, blah on the radio.

 

[kirsty]

I have scoured the Web, and the only possibility that I come up with for the time frame is this woman.
http://charleyproject.org/cases/k/kutnak_bessie.html
and she's too tall and too heavy.
.

I think I would rule out this lady as she has blue eyes

 

[not_my_kids]

I don't make rule outs on eye color. The color of the eyes can be changed by medication during life and changes quickly after death. I use it in conjunction with other factors, but almost never by itself.

 

[kirsty]

I don't make rule outs on eye color. The color of the eyes can be changed by medication during life and changes quickly after death. I use it in conjunction with other factors, but almost never by itself.

Oh, I didnt know that! Thanks not_my_kids

 

[not_my_kids]

Oh, I didnt know that! Thanks not_my_kids

I didn't know it either, but I have picked up quite a few tips. Never trust blond hair in the Everglades, the enzymes change the color. Bone breaks in children under the age of 6 can heal well enough not to be picked up on an xray a few years later. And the eye thing.
I am a fountain of useless death trivia.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

I didn't know it either, but I have picked up quite a few tips. Never trust blond hair in the Everglades, the enzymes change the color. Bone breaks in children under the age of 6 can heal well enough not to be picked up on an xray a few years later. And the eye thing.
I am a fountain of useless death trivia.

I'm not the only one!:woohoo:

 

[mtrooper]

What do you think about the facial structure? I would really like to see morgue photos, but MI police are pretty stingy. I also asked about the eye color and due to advanced decomp. they are not 100% sure, she was found at the end of August which is one of the hottest times in MI. The detective I spoke to was actually on the call and he said that it had been very hot the week before, so I can only imagine. I know that flies/maggots prefer bodies that are covered in tarps because they aren't in the sun. So who knows what they had to go off of for the facial reconstruction.