GUILTY MI - Renisha McBride, 19, shot while trying to get help, Detroit, Nov 2013

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My impression has been that Wafer made a statement to police that night apparently without an attorney, not smart. I could be wrong of course but, if he did, he can say whatever he wants now but it will not change that original statement. I assume there were also direct statements to officers on scene. The only way he could combat that statement is to take the stand and I don't see that happening.

I find it interesting that he emerged from the side door of his home when police arrived. She must have been right the on the porch, falling right where she was shot.
 
Ina Cognito said:
My impression has been that Wafer made a statement to police that night apparently without an attorney, not smart. I could be wrong of course but, if he did, he can say whatever he wants now but it will not change that original statement. I assume there were also direct statements to officers on scene. The only way he could combat that statement is to take the stand and I don't see that happening.

I find it interesting that he emerged from the side door of his home when police arrived. She must have been right the on the porch, falling right where she was shot.
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If he made a statement, and depending on what he said, I see your point but right now not much info regarding evidence has been made available, which may be a good thing but we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Usually I check pro-gun sites for legal opinions and this case is getting zero discussion so far. I'm thinking that doesn't bode well for TW but that's just a hunch.

ETA for clarification: I am pro-gun control. The reason I check pro-gun sites for legal opinions on this type of case is because they usually have bloggers who are well-versed in self-defense, SYG, and castle doctrine.
 
This case reminds me of a local case here. The homeowner was convicted and sentenced to 20 years today. The man he killed crashed his car near the home. It was in the middle of the night. The homeowner thought the man was trying to break in, and shot him. The driver was only looking for help. :sigh:

http://www.kxan.com/news/williamson/fred-yazdi-sentencing-today
 
gxm said:
I tend to agree with the writer and don't have a good feeling about this case. There are no witnesses and I don't think we'll ever fully know what transpired. JMO. OMO. MOO.
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I think it is enough to know that when engaging with strangers, we get what we get.
 
gxm said:
If he made a statement, and depending on what he said, I see your point but right now not much info regarding evidence has been made available, which may be a good thing but we'll just have to wait and see.
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it was reported by police that he made a voluntary statement at the police station that night.

two things i wish i could prove or disprove right now;

there was an initial time of shooting reported as 3:40am, i have no idea where it originated and im leaning towards thinking it is in error. has anyone seen this attributed to a source? i have only seen it in articles with no source stated.

it was initially reported that neighbors called 911, i think this came from the mcbride family and i have never seen it verified, has anyone heard anything about this? im also thinking this is an error, or at least that wafer's call was first. from the dispatch audio it certainly sounds to me like wafer's call is the call that alerts them to the situation.
 
liljim said:
it was reported by police that he made a voluntary statement at the police station that night.

two things i wish i could prove or disprove right now;

there was an initial time of shooting reported as 3:40am, i have no idea where it originated and im leaning towards thinking it is in error. has anyone seen this attributed to a source? i have only seen it in articles with no source stated.

it was initially reported that neighbors called 911, i think this came from the mcbride family and i have never seen it verified, has anyone heard anything about this? im also thinking this is an error, or at least that wafer's call was first. from the dispatch audio it certainly sounds to me like wafer's call is the call that alerts them to the situation.
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My understanding is that the "neighbors'" 911 calls related to the accident and that Wafer's call is the first one related to the shooting. Also, iirc, the time of the call was 3:45'ish. Don't have time to find links right now so take it fwiw.

But it makes sense since the police did show up at the accident scene and there is an msm report about a woman who said she went in to call about the accident and when she came out the girl was gone. Also, the guy who described how she was acting may have called, too. And I think he said he had just gotten home. So that would make him a "neighbor" -- to the accident site anyway.

jmo
 
so you are saying you think that when the family said neighbor's reported the shooting and wafer did not that they were mistakenly referring to the people that called about the accident?

the 911 call from wafer is 4:46am. (well 1-2 min prior maybe, it is reported by the dispatcher at 4:46)
 
liljim said:
so you are saying you think that when the family said neighbor's reported the shooting and wafer did not that they were mistakenly referring to the people that called about the accident?

the 911 call from wafer is 4:46am. (well 1-2 min prior maybe, it is reported by the dispatcher at 4:46)
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I was just saying the way I've understood who called and about what from the msm reports. I don't know what the family has said about that, but since they've said things ranging from pure speculation to simply wrong, I'm not giving any weight to anything they say at this point unless it's backed up by some other credible source.

Thanks for the correct time. The first report I saw said 3:40, so when I saw 4:46, I must have just read 3:46 based on what was already in my head. :blushing:
 
aha i see, just that when you said this "My understanding is that the "neighbors'" 911 calls related to the accident" i thought you meant you had seen that reported relating to my question. np.

and the 3:40 report you saw was widely reported but given no source, it was never cited as the time of a 911 call, it was just called the "time of the shooting" and given no context or source that i have ever seen (i have looked quite a bit).

my reason for looking into it is that people still claim that "wafer waited an hour to call 911 !" and the reason for that is this random "3:40am time of shooting" that people keep quoting and comparing to the time we now know he called 911

i havent said this in a while and you can never be too careful so i will throw this out there one more time - disclaimer, im not attacking anyone, im not trying to defend anyone, i have no side in this. its a terrible tragedy.
 
It's so frustrating when the media recycles information they got from other media and the sources get lost or facts get twisted/wrong. I wish there were more integrity in reporting anymore, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of that left and it makes it very hard to get the whole story.
 
im surprised that basically nothing more has come out since the announcement of charges and the one 911 call released later that day.

there are so many things that could be cleared up that would not impact the case (imo) but nobody is reporting anything.
 
still nothing new...

just one report that wafer gave 2 statements, one written and one on video, the article speculated that if the two statements contradict each other that it could spell trouble for wafer, but then didnt give any reason to think that the two statements did in fact contradict each other, it was weird. let me find a link...

here it is, it also claims that michigan does not have a stand your ground law, doesnt it? (regardless of whether or not it applies here)

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region...arged-with-murder-in-death-of-renisha-mcbride
 
liljim said:
maybe im missing something? i dont see any record of this being repealed...

http://michiganradio.org/post/michi...-law-mirrors-florida-law-more-any-other-state
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I don't know why they're saying MI doesn't have an syg law. Maybe they're talking about the part where the accused is entitled to an SYG hearing and civil immunity like the FLA law. But it doesn't matter in this case, because the main point of SYG is to extend the castle doctrine to any place where the shooter has a right to be. Here, the shooting happened on the homeowner's property, so the Castle Doctrine, not SYG, would apply. I don't know the breakdown exactly, but a lot of states have the Castle Doctrine. Maybe most?


eta: thinking about it, maybe SYG could be relevant because she didn't cross the threshhold? I'm not sure that's a valid distinction under the Castle Doctrine, but could be. Maybe that's why the part of the law quoted above thread requires a belief that there's been a break-in AND an actual break-in (paraphrasing)?

jmo
 
Karmady said:
I don't know why they're saying MI doesn't have an syg law. Maybe they're talking about the part where the accused is entitled to an SYG hearing and civil immunity like the FLA law. But it doesn't matter in this case, because the main point of SYG is to extend the castle doctrine to any place where the shooter has a right to be. Here, the shooting happened on the homeowner's property, so the Castle Doctrine, not SYG, would apply. I don't know the breakdown exactly, but a lot of states have the Castle Doctrine. Maybe most?


eta: thinking about it, maybe SYG could be relevant because she didn't cross the threshhold? I'm not sure that's a valid distinction under the Castle Doctrine, but could be. Maybe that's why the part of the law quoted above thread requires a belief that there's been a break-in AND an actual break-in (paraphrasing)?

jmo
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The castle doctrine would apply to your property, not your house as such. That is why the prosecutor will have an uphill battle to prove their charge. The main line of attack against a defense like that would be that the victim had a reasonable right to be on the property, but given the time of night and the circumstances involved that is going to be a hard sell.
 
Tugela said:
The castle doctrine would apply to your property, not your house as such. That is why the prosecutor will have an uphill battle to prove their charge. The main line of attack against a defense like that would be that the victim had a reasonable right to be on the property, but given the time of night and the circumstances involved that is going to be a hard sell.
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I don't think it's an uphill battle. All they have to prove is that the homeowner did not act in a reasonable manner. If a reasonable person would have shot, then the homeowner is able to prevail. However, I think the prosecutor doesn't have that hard of a time of it, after all this was a young woman who was injured in the middle of the night. There's a strong bid for sympathy there that will play well with a jury. And they must have other information to bolster their case, to bring these charges. I'm sure it will be very interesting to hear what they've been holding back.
 
Tugela said:
The castle doctrine would apply to your property, not your house as such. That is why the prosecutor will have an uphill battle to prove their charge. The main line of attack against a defense like that would be that the victim had a reasonable right to be on the property, but given the time of night and the circumstances involved that is going to be a hard sell.
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Isn't our home our castle??
 
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