Misty's Learning Disabilities

[lookieloo]

LookieLoo that is not Misty. I am going to say this for the last time. Misty is not mentally challenged, she appears to have some learning disabilities. But so do most of the people on earth, we all learn differently, the problem alot of times is that schools teach one way, and children learn in a multitude of ways. She on her own has overcome and managed to handle those disabilities. She needs , desperately needs education by people who are qualified to teach her. Her early life is tragic but its the life many people have, very sad. Can she tell the truth? ABSOLUTELY! These are just excuses for Misty and I'm telling you they have no basis.

Everyones intentions are good on this thread but many just don't understand how learning disabilities work. It takes a lot of education to really understand them and how they are treated.

I know that's not Misty, that's why I posted what I did about some people saying maybe she has FAS. I also work in a special school with many different kinds of DD's and I have seen kids with FAS. I am not trying to make any excuses for her and I don't think too many people here are, just trying to understand. And I agree also, that she knows enough to tell the truth and/or hide things she doesn't want known. Many of us on this thread have the education you are referring to, and the ones who don't have lots of first hand experience to make intelligent comments.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I've been in teaching, one level or another, for 30 years. I would NEVER "ballpark" a person's IQ based on a short writing sample and a few interviews on television in which the interviewee is involved in a criminal investigation. Never.

I hope we would not presume to diagnose serious physical problems (cancer, lupus, AIDS, sickle cell ) based on symptoms or potential symptoms observed on television; we would expect doctors conducting tests based on disciplinary protocols. It requires as much expertise and as much access to the individual to make judgments about how someone is wired for learning literacy and mathematical skills. The best theories of intelligence do not consider Stanford-Binet IQ scores as the last word on "intelligence."

Here's what we know and what we can deduce: As Tricia pointed out in the first post on the thread, evidently Misty has been diagnosed with significant learning disabilities. Whether those learning disabilities are (1) hereditary, (2) the result of fetal alcohol or drug syndrome, (3) conditioned by chaotic and traumatic early childhood experiences and/ or (4) exacerbated by language impoverishment in childhood, we cannot know. We do know that those disabilities are probably a major factor in Misty dropping out of school at a very young age. We can see very clearly by the small writing sample that schools utterly failed Misty, regardless of her test IQ scores, diagnosed disabilities or other handicaps. We can see that she is, in a complex society, in some senses, nearly functionally illiterate, as she would have serious difficulties finishing high school, trade school, or other advanced training.

However, there are other forms of intelligence (spacial, bodily-kinesthetic, musical, personal--to borrow Howard Gardner's categories) in which Misty might excel. It is worth remembering that in many societies over thousands of years people expressed intelligences in ways other than reading, writing, and working mathematical problems.

 

[PorcineGranny]

lookiloo, I was not disagreeing with your posts, I just used it to give an example. Sorry if it didn't sound that way to you. No harm intended. Just my own opinions.

 

[Pondering Mind]

I've been in teaching, one level or another, for 30 years. I would NEVER "ballpark" a person's IQ based on a short writing sample and a few interviews on television in which the interviewee is involved in a criminal investigation. Never.

I hope we would not presume to diagnose serious physical problems (cancer, lupus, AIDS, sickle cell ) based on symptoms or potential symptoms observed on television; we would expect doctors conducting tests based on disciplinary protocols. It requires as much expertise and as much access to the individual to make judgments about how someone is wired for learning literacy and mathematical skills. The best theories of intelligence do not consider Stanford-Binet IQ scores as the last word on "intelligence."

Here's what we know and what we can deduce: As Tricia pointed out in the first post on the thread, evidently Misty has been diagnosed with significant learning disabilities. Whether those learning disabilities are (1) hereditary, (2) the result of fetal alcohol or drug syndrome, (3) conditioned by chaotic and traumatic early childhood experiences and/ or (4) exacerbated by language impoverishment in childhood, we cannot know. We do know that those disabilities are probably a major factor in Misty dropping out of school at a very young age. We can see very clearly by the small writing sample that schools utterly failed Misty, regardless of her test IQ scores, diagnosed disabilities or other handicaps. We can see that she is, in a complex society, in some senses, nearly functionally illiterate, as she would have serious difficulties finishing high school, trade school, or other advanced training.

However, there are other forms of intelligence (spacial, bodily-kinesthetic, musical, personal--to borrow Howard Gardner's categories) in which Misty might excel. It is worth remembering that in many societies over thousands of years expressed intelligences in ways other than reading, writing, and working mathematical problems.

EXCELLENT POST!

may I add just my :twocents:
any experts diagnosis-(not speaking of anyone here, but in general) is comprised *So Much* of what they observe (during short periods of time) and of what they are told by teachers, parents, etc (whom may have their own interpretations and/or biases)
IDK, I just don't see how we have seen or heard enough from Misty to know how she 'really' is. Not saying that she doesn't have some type of LD, she VERY WELL may ..but in no way can I see that she is 'insane' or mentally deficient, therefore she would be able to comprehend right from wrong...

I guess in short what I am trying to say :crazy: is from a street-smart, not book-smart laymans point of view is that I have seen NOTHING that would excuse her in any way from whatever part I believe she played in Haleighs disappearance. Now...once we reach a penalty phase of a trial...I'll revisit the issue...

 

[Absolutely]

I don't think she has any disabilities...she sure picked up on how to get free trips for interviews pretty fast....JMO

 

[Malesherbes]

I know that's not Misty, that's why I posted what I did about some people saying maybe she has FAS. I also work in a special school with many different kinds of DD's and I have seen kids with FAS. I am not trying to make any excuses for her and I don't think too many people here are, just trying to understand. And I agree also, that she knows enough to tell the truth and/or hide things she doesn't want known. Many of us on this thread have the education you are referring to, and the ones who don't have lots of first hand experience to make intelligent comments.

I worked in a jail for 3 years conducting a substance abuse program- Misty types are a dime a dozen, she does not seem fetal alcohol syndrome stricken to me- she seems like your quintessential tough girl who thinks she knows everything- and you cant tell her nothing until she hits her bottom- Shes street smart and thats about it- Shes also in love and will do anything to save her Ronald-

If she was so disabled and has so many mental problems, she never should have been taking care of kids- and everyone who let her watch kids should be locked up for neglect-

jmo

 

[marylandmissing]

Quite often heavy pot smokers are ADHD. It 'calms' them.

 

[Normcar21]

Thank you pittsburgh for bringing "more to the story" down to earth. Now perhaps a few of us can begin to perceive some dimension to actions and reactions related to Misty, the media, lawyers, relationships, and apparent and perceived "lies" as if she is some devious mastermind, manipulating the wisest of the wise in American legal and media offerings.

This kid seems to be holding her own, and I applaud her for not buckling, freaking out, and taking the primal scream attitude. Misty...you go girl.

 

[panthera]

Misty for sure is "street" smart. When growing up learning about life through the streets can be a far greater education then school. Misty may not know what the word "numerical" means but she certainly is a survivor of life.

I couldn't agree more and think back to her being "smart enough" to walk out of interrogation when she didn't like the questions LE was asking her. She definitely isn't someone who is easily intimidated or unfamiliar with life "on the street". MOO

 

[txsvicki]

Knowing about any learning or communication disabilities that Misty may have could help LE or someone to figure out if Misty acted alone or how much help she had (if she's involved with something happening to Haleigh). Someone could have taken Haleigh and left Misty to make her own explanation about the night in the home. There's no physical trace of something happening in the home that we know of, so someone may have taken care of that very well, but Misty didn't manage the story very well. The blankets could have been washed at someone else's home if that's even true. Misty's problem with communication could help figure it all out or even eventually clear her.

 

[Tricia]

Personally, I don't think she has FAS as here are the characteristics:

Performance is impaired. The FAS infant is irritable. The older FAS child is hyperactive. Fine motor skills are impaired with weak grasp, poor eye-hand coordination, and tremors.
Intelligence is diminished. The average IQ is in the 60s. (This level is considered mild mental retardation and qualifies a child in the U.S. as educable retarded.)
The head is small (microcephalic). This decrease may not even be apparent to family and friends. It is evident upon comparison of the child's head circumference to that of a normal child on a growth chart. The usual degree of microcephaly in FAS is classified as mild to moderate. It is primarily due to failure of brain growth. The consequences are neither mild nor moderate.
The face is characteristic with short eye openings (palpebral fissures), sunken nasal bridge, short nose, flattening of the cheekbones and midface, smoothing and elongation of the ridged area (the philtrum) between the nose and lips, and smooth, thin upper lip.
The skeleton shows characteristic changes; abnormal position and function of joints, shortening of the metacarpal bones leading to the fourth and fifth fingers, and shortening of the last bone (the distal phalanx) in the fingers. There is also a small fifth fingernail and a single transverse (simian) crease across the palm.
A heart murmur is often heard and then may go away. The basis is usually a hole between the right and left sides of the heart between the ventricles (the lower chambers) or less commonly, the atria (the upper chambers).
A number of other birth defects can occur in children with FAS. These include such major birth deformities such as hydrocephalus (increased fluid pressure on the brain that may require shunting to relieve the pressure), cleft lip (sometimes with a cleft palate), coarctation (narrowing) of the aorta, and meningomyelocele (spina bifida).

She probably doesn't have FAS but I will bet you a million dollars she has Fetal Alcohol EFFECTS... F.A. E.

It is everything that FAS is but Without the physical attributes.

I don't understand why more isn't written about F.A.E.

For some reason when the mother drinks the baby comes out looking normal but has all the problems like an FAS baby.

I would guess our prisons are filled with FAE people.

Take a look at some of these articles. F.A.E.

From About.com comes this:

Sadly, however, children with FAE are in fact more likely to have negative outcomes such as trouble with school, trouble with the law and teen pregnancy; the fact that they look "normal" but can't behave that way due to brain damage causes them to face unrealistic expectations without appropriate support, which can have serious repercussions for these children and their families.

http://specialchildren.about.com/od/gettingadiagnosis/g/FAE.htm

 

[Kat]

Never have heard of that Tricia thanks for bringing that to the thread.

Same with Padua and PG taking the time to share their opinions based on their experiences in their professional life, all very interesting.

 

[kiki the parrot]

To be diagnosed with a LD here is the process:

1. Give a mental status exam to rule out neurological problems.
2. Give an IQ test to establish that the person is not severely below ave. In an IQ test there are numerous mini tests. Then the test is scored, averaged, error is also added in.
3. Give an Achievement test. Also a compilation of mini tests including - WRITING and the different aspects that go into writing, math, LANGUAGE SKILLS, etc.
4. Give a personality test to rule out disorders that could cause low functioning (depression, anxiety...)
5. Combine EVERYTHING, interpret all results...
6. Give recommendations

This is why it costs $250 an hour! And, why I get a LOT of no shows because it is hard to afford if you don't have insurance.

(bbm) Thank you. So have we the least proof Misty's GMA (or any teacher) ever went thru this lengthy process to diagnose her w even as much as a LD? Doesn't take an intellectual giant to know truth. And from what I've observed, it appears less of a mind deficit and more a heart or character defect IMO.

I've been overcome with the urge to defend and protect her right from the start. My "mom" instincts kick into super high gear every time I see and listen to her speak, all I want to do is nurture her.

I'm a mother of four and my instincts "kicked in" early too, I've been overcome w a slightly different urge...

Her granmother is not qualified as far as I know to diagnose learning disabilities, and she didn't mention (that I heard) that she had Misty tested...

The grandmother stated that Misty had a hard time with homework and asked grandma to help. It was stated that it had, "been a long time" for grandma, so grandma wasn't much help. And there it is.

Misty didn't have the help available to her, so naturally she probably got behind in class, got embarrassed, started avoiding going to school, wanted to quit, which her parents apparently allowed her to do.

Uneducated doesn't equal learning disabled. She may indeed have some kind of problem, IDK; but from what I've seen of her there is no way to know without someone professionally assessing her; Iow, her grandmother saying that Misty had a hard time with homework does NOT qualify as a diagnosis imo.

:clap: :clap:

(snip, bbm) Exactly kant. I went back and reread where AH "says that Misty's GMA says" she had learning disabilities. W/out testing or a diagnosis it may refer simply to learning difficulties which is true of any child who isn't consistently encouraged in their education, but which hardly renders them incapable of telling the same story twice.

Thank you pittsburgh for bringing "more to the story" down to earth. Now perhaps a few of us can begin to perceive some dimension to actions and reactions related to Misty, the media, lawyers, relationships, and apparent and perceived "lies" as if she is some devious mastermind, manipulating the wisest of the wise in American legal and media offerings.

This kid seems to be holding her own, and I applaud her for not buckling, freaking out, and taking the primal scream attitude. Misty...you go girl.

(bbm) I "perceive some dimension to her actions" alright, the dimensions are 8' x 10'. Applaud her for not buckling? You go girl...? Not what *I'd* say to someone characterized by LE as "totally unbelievable" and whose stories are "farcical" concerning a missing child. But that's just what MC reportedly did when LE asked the tough questions... she got up and left. JMO

arrot:

 

[mnegri1973]

I am in no way diagnosing Misty, however just speaking from my own experiences. My daughter has ADHD. She was diagnosed when she was in 3rd grade. It was a very long progress. She had to have a physical check up for her vision and hearing from her peds doctor, her father and I had to file out questionnaires, along with all of her teachers, our district brought in a 3rd party to conduct the actual testing, which if I recall correctly took an entire week of school to do, and then we also had to see a child physiologist, who specialized in ADHD. Then once this was completed she was put in Adderal XR, which then required her to be seen by her peds doctor every 6 months. She also had a very severe speech impediment, which she went to speech 3 days a week from kinder until the 5th grade. We were very lucky that we live within a wonderful school district that really went the extra mile to help her.

One of the other things that goes along with her ADHD is she has very irrational fears. One of her fears was that we could not fly over the ocean because if our plane were to crash we may be attacked by sharks, the other is even to this day she has to have a night light because she is deathly afraid of the dark.

We are very lucky however that she has been able to find a happy medium and has worked out a system that works for her. We are completely off of all medications and she is in all of the advanced classes at school however it was a struggle to get to this point.

Another point that I would like to make, is that sometimes if a person is struggling with a mental issue, they may turn to drugs to give them that happy medium that they don't feel without. This was that case with my aunt who is bi-polar.

How this pertains to Misty and her telling of the events the night that Haleigh when missing, not really sure. I do know that even though my daughter has ADHD, she knows how to tell the truth and knows right from wrong, then again she was brought up in a home that taught her this, where as I don't think that Misty has taught the difference between right and wrong.

IMO, I do feel that IF Misty has deeper issues that LE may want to find out because it could help them get to the bottom of this case and help them to find out what happened to Haleigh. While I do not believe that Misty physically hurt Haleigh, I do think that she is hiding something out of fear.

This is just MOO.

 

[wadahoot]

As for , Sly & Slow....they CAN go hand in hand and it starts very young. Young kids with dyslexia when first exposed to REALLY having to learn, start building their own "coping skills". Sly can come in at this point. They can skillfully avoid or even lie about things to protect themselves from scary unknown issues...self esteeme, getting in trouble, classmates making fun of them, getting bad grades, punishments, etc. Ive seen this starting as early as Pre-K...by 3rd grade they are REAL Good at it.

This description reminds me of people that are functionally illiterate. Since they can't read, they have 'tricks' for getting through every day. They might hand directions to someone and say they don't have their glasses and can't see the words; or they can't read music and could the instructor please sing the words so the learner can hear the tune, etc. The fact is, they truly are VERY smart, as they have to learn something they hear the first time around, or their cover will be blown by having to reask for help.

I don't know Misty's level of (presumed) disability, but please don't underestimate the coping strategies that she may have formed to deal with life.

 

[chemcopout]

I've been overcome with the urge to defend and protect her right from the start. My "mom" instincts kick into super high gear every time I see and listen to her speak, all I want to do is nurture her.

i can relate to feeling this as well towards misty. shes ins't even 18 yet, this all started when she was 16,
the girl has never had family support, she has been abused, it breaks my heart to read that misty was crying since she needed help with her schoolwork and her grandma couldn't help her.
no one has been there for this girl through out her life. she is a victim herself, in many ways.
it makes me sad to think she thought of donna brock as a mother, only to find out donna was only there to get information. is it too late for a family with patience to adopt misty? if she was a member of a "normal" caring family, i'm sure they would have made sure she got the help she needed in school. she would have had a good support structure. she most likely went through life thinking no one cares about her.
and if she had a normal caring family now, no way would she be running around on talk shows. they would have gotten her an attorney.
i think she may have a verbal comprehension disability (not sure the wording) like when she is asked questions, i don't not sure she understand what is fully expected of her. also with her very little education she got while in school, she doesn't have the vocabulary to express herself the way those of us can that do have a extended vocabulary.
i really think she needs to have tests done.
someone brought up about fetal alcohol effects, i did a google and can across and interesting site:
http://www.motherswithattitude.com/portfolio/behaviorplan.html

"• And since impulsive behavior is almost by definition without reason, asking a fetal alcohol affected child why he did something and not taking "I don't know" for an answer is pretty much insisting that he lie. They don't know why they do it. They may not even know what they did. So you'll either get gobs of denial and defensiveness, or you'll get a spontaneous excuse that defies credulity."

"• Social and emotional development lags way, way, way behind in people with FAE. Teens and young adults with FAE often have an emotional developmental age of about 6."

misty never had the support of her family, and with their background, she never stood a chance!
it is so sad that they all have turned they backs on her.

if she did commit a crime, i don't say any of these things to excuse her actions, i just think maybe they should be taken into account the way her answers to questions have came out.

 

[chemcopout]

i also wanted to add that i have a uncle who is mentally deficient (he got too much oxygen at birth). even at 56 years old, he would lie and his stories would change (even over something minor) that he thought he might get in "trouble" for. (even though he wouldn't get in trouble, he has the mental compacity of a 5 year old. he is illterate as well.
so when i hear misty answer questions, it reminds me of that.

 

[wadahoot]

Our school district professionals handle ALL of the testing which does NOT require any physical, medical or mental evaluations, except hearing & vision which they do anyways. The Texas Education Agency has a near 100 page book for our schools on how to diagnose Dyslexia and other related disorders and the provisions, laws, etc.

Our schools do too, but the sad fact is is that each case costs a lot of money and I have personally seen parents contact the schools with concerns only to be blown off, so the district didn't have to pay for the testing. :steamed:

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Most of the experts I have read and talked to want to do the physiological and psych workups in order to eliminate and or account for another possible issues. Frankly, the track record of American schools in general (just think that over 30% of kids drop out) is dismal in regard to children who do not "catch on" in the primary grades to the basics of reading and arithmetic. We live in a country where many of the kids who need to be tested are not financially well-off and may have either no insurance or insurances that doesn't run to paying for anything "extra" like finding out if a kid is depressed, anxious, or has one of a number of possible learning disabilities or attention deficits.

I would not be surprised if it turns out that Misty has never been tested for any of the problems that might explain or illuminate her difficulties in school. Clearly no one intervened to help with the most terrible of problems, abuse and homelessness. Perhaps a teacher or counselor just told her family that she had "learning disabilities" as a way to explain why she wasn't learning--without having to explain why there wasn't more of an effort to teach her. Mnegri1973's school system is to be commended for having a holistic and effective approach that actually works for kids who encounter obstacles as they negotiate learning in school.

 

[Padua]

sorry if I missed it earlier, as I asked. Could you give us the number rating scale of criteria? Meaning like from 30 to 40's, 40 to 50's etc.... what those scores mean? Like genius is over 100 right? TIA

Stanford Binet Fourth Edition Classifications:

IQ Classification
132 + Very Superior
121 - 131 Superior
111 - 120 High AVerage
89 - 110 Average
79 - 88 Low AVerage
68 - 78 Slow Learner
67 and below MR



Weschler Tests

IQ Classification
130 + Very Superior
120 - 129 Superior
110 - 119 High AVerage
90 - 109 Average
80 - 89 Low AVerage
70 - 79 Borderline
69 and below Extremely Low range