Mitigation: Ineffective Assistance of Counsel

[celticthyme]

After the part of the hearing yesterday when HHJP denied the motion and allowed the DP, during that 10 minutes of a break, ICA was irritated with her team. She may have been briefed that the motion would be denied, but when she actually heard the words from HHJP's mouth, she knew she was in trouble. Those tears she shed were in anger.
I have thought for awhile, that once these motions were heard and more and more were denied, ICA would see the seriousness of this trial and there wasn't anything MsL(s) could do. I don't think she has had much belief in JB since CM came on board. JB is more the "guy" she can have a good laugh with, but he isn't the one to get her out of this mess CA made her get into.

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If she were NOT GUILTY,she would have no reason to be upset, but SHE KNOWS WHAT SHE DID! None of them would have to be playing all these legal games, but they know she is guilty too, the evidence is just too overwhelming. That's why Lyons is paying so much attention to the 2nd phase of the trial . ..IMO

 

[LinasK]

I get the impression that the defense is anticipating a likely conviction and preparring for the sentencing phase. Thats just a feeling though.

That's because they most likely believe she is guilty, even if noone outright asked her if she did it.The evidence is so obvious, even Cheney Mason said so before he joined her team. Also, I have it on good faith that OJ's Dream Team knew he was guilty, but were able to justify their actions to themselves by "moral cover"! (kinda like, "oh well, we can't help it if the jury was too stupid to see beyond our smoke & mirrors!")

 

[LinasK]

Sadly, I don't think Cindy has any intention of going back to her nursing career. I'm sure that she thinks that she can make boocoo (sp) bucks on a book deal. Trouble is...no one will really care to read it.

Honestly, I don't think Gentiva would want her back with the negative PR she brings, she's proven to be untrustworthy- so I wouldn't want to issue her keys to medication closets/drawers anymore, and can you imagine Cindy's bedside manner???
Also, would you feel a competent nurse can't recognize a 7-month pregnant woman, and mistakes the smell of decomposition for rotting pizza???

 

[faefrost]

At this point I can't imagine there being an appeal for ineffective counsel. JP even complemented the expertise of cheney mason.

Yeah, the absolute best thing JS did, and JP reinforced is mandating that ICA be at ALL court hearings. This was clearly so she can witness exactly how her privately hired defense team is performing and make reasonable and informed decisions on her defense. JS did this to specifically preclude any future claims of inadequite, incompetant or ineffective defense council as an apealable issue.

 

[LinasK]

Yeah, the absolute best thing JS did, and JP reinforced is mandating that ICA be at ALL court hearings. This was clearly so she can witness exactly how her privately hired defense team is performing and make reasonable and informed decisions on her defense. JS did this to specifically preclude any future claims of inadequite, incompetant or ineffective defense council as an apealable issue.

Yup! Plus it forces Casey to sit in the courtroom now, as opposed to being cozy in her private cell, writing letters, reading, whiling away the time with snacks, and most importantly- she is forced to confront the very real fact that she is still facing the Death Penalty for her horrendous crime! Those tears she shed were very real for herself.

 

[Aedrys]

At this point I can't imagine there being an appeal for ineffective counsel. JP even complemented the expertise of cheney mason.

True. All of the bases have been covered here. If they were so bad, Casey should have fired them a long time ago and she didn't. She even told JS that she was happy with them. She can whine later about it, but it won't work.

I do wonder if HHJP needs to ask her again if she's happy with her counsel just to cover the bases. I don't want to think she can get an appeal because JS recused himself, so him asking her if she was happy with her counsel wouldn't count.

 

[LandAuxvasse]

Based upon the article at the link below.......the argument regarding ineffective assistance of counsel could actually be part of an AL plan from the beginning. Here is an interesting snippet....

Please read the rest at the link. I should mention, that the author.....is an associate of AL. I ask that you please read or at least skim the article before discussion. It will make for much more valuable discussion.

Respectfully snipped I haven't read the entire thread (skimmed article for reference to ineffective counsel only) so forgive me if this has been opined...

I actually took from the article (IMVHOO) that because the defense has a mitigation specialist, that it ensures that ineffectiveness of counsel would not be an issue. That is the specialist's job and the cases that were appealed did not offer the proper mitigating investigation and were therefore deemed as ineffective counsel. Because HHJP allowed the defense to keep their expert, he was closing that door, IMO.

Also, MOO, regardless of Mr Baez's "seeming" ineptitude, he has surrounded himself with some of this country's smartest people in forensics, law, death penalty law, mitigation and PR and has also closed that door very effectively!

Please feel free to let me know if I've totally misunderstood the parts of the article I read!! I love WS for the education as well as the Justice!

I will now go read the rest of the thread... :twocents::waitasec:

 

[LandAuxvasse]

NOW.....stay with me.....AL joined this team AFTER a good bit of time....I am of the opinion that she was planned all along. Maybe I am a nut and overly suspicious......but IMO....she seemed to step in only when it was requird that JB seat a DP qualified attorney. I don't think TL was EVER supposed to be a perm. fixture on the team. That said.....JB did not allow jail visits, he did NOT interview witnesses, he did not file appropriate motions AND....here's the big one.....he opposed the gag order! Pay close attention to the weight of AL's argument that the media and press have made it virtually impossible to do investigations and seat an unbiased jury. JB allowed it, cultivated it, and used it. Right there, is an argument for AL's position.

I *knew* I should have read the WHOLE thread before commenting LOL :bow:

 

[KeyboardCat]

I've stated before that I believe after this case landed in the lap of Mr. Jose Baez, he realized this case could be used as a launching pad for a fabulous legal career. If only he could do the impossible: successfully defend Casey Anthony and have the world watch her walk away a free woman.

I believe he was blinded by the lights of the cameras, so to speak. He made foolish comments on camera. He gave too many interviews. He sought too much media attention. He honestly thought he was doing the right thing, to provide -some- of the other side of the story to balance out the negative media exposure.

In the meantime, he knows he probably can't win, but she won't budge from her story. Maybe he has even tried getting the real story out of her. Maybe he has even suggested scenarios for her to conform her story to, to make this more "winnable."

But still yet, she will not budge. She cannot admit to any responsibility, whatsoever.
She sticks to a very transparent lie.

Enters Andrea Lyons and Cheney Mason. Surely they have gotten through to her. Surely Jose Baez has to realize that his clients decisions are making him look bad.

But instead of fixing this mess, they let it happen. It gives them just one more thing they can skew in an appeal.

I'm sure its also entered Casey Anthony's mind as well. She may later even claim that he isolated her and that he made claims that her case was winnable. She will say it was his bad advice she was following.

I used to think that Mr. Jose Baez was helping to direct the path of the bus. I wonder if it has crossed his mind that he may end up under it as well.

 

[TigerTiger]

Lawyer in Texas was talking about this very issue , Casey appeal on ineeffective assistance of cousnel, way back in Jan 2009:

http://backseatlawyer.blogspot.com/2009/01/who-is-jose-baez-besides-being-casey.html

Predicted this but looks like thinks the other big names might mean argument would not win on appeal.


(I cant figure out how to make this so you can click on the link and go there, sorry. You'll have to cut and paste this.)

 

[MD MOMMY]

I am a little confused about what HL means when he says he is doing this work Pro Bono. Does this mean that HE pays for all his own expenses too? I can see him waiving his fees but asking to be reimbursed for expenses - planes, train, automobiles, lab costs, meals, etc. Just because he gets reimbursed doesn't mean he is not doing the case Pro Bono.

I guess I would like to know if Pro Bono means he pays everything connected with the case or whether he is just waiving his usual fees?

From what I've read it can go either way. A pro bono attorney MAY have their expenses covered. Since we have no actual accounting of where KC's money went, it's hard to say whether or not he has been paid for his travel etc. thus far. Furthermore, my understanding of how it is now, he is a PAID expert at the expense of the State of Florida. JB's estimate of HL's services were beyond just expenses. I can't remember the number off the top of my head but I believe it was upwards of 80K. I certainly do not call that pro bono.

Also during the JAC hearing Baez estimated HL's hours or work left to be done so he is definitely no longer pro bono.

 

[Solace]

Lawyer in Texas was talking about this very issue , Casey appeal on ineeffective assistance of cousnel, way back in Jan 2009:

http://backseatlawyer.blogspot.com/2009/01/who-is-jose-baez-besides-being-casey.html

Predicted this but looks like thinks the other big names might mean argument would not win on appeal.


(I cant figure out how to make this so you can click on the link and go there, sorry. You'll have to cut and paste this.)

If she is found guilty, and she will be, and IF she is sentenced to death - the appeal is automatic and it is usually ineffective counsel. HOWEVER, Judge Perry has been overturned but once on his death sentences and it was a partial turnover. As far as ineffective counsel, that will be difficult because Mason and Lyon are on the case and they were brought specifically to counter Baez' ineffectiveness. They had to bring them in.

 

[cecybeans]

From what I've read it can go either way. A pro bono attorney MAY have their expenses covered. Since we have no actual accounting of where KC's money went, it's hard to say whether or not he has been paid for his travel etc. thus far. Furthermore, my understanding of how it is now, he is a PAID expert at the expense of the State of Florida. JB's estimate of HL's services were beyond just expenses. I can't remember the number off the top of my head but I believe it was upwards of 80K. I certainly do not call that pro bono.

Also during the JAC hearing Baez estimated HL's hours or work left to be done so he is definitely no longer pro bono.

Wow - $80K - those are some might expensive orange crates...

We also don't know for sure if ANY of the experts have been compensated so far regardless of whether they are on record as hired guns.

 

[logicalgirl]

Lawyer in Texas was talking about this very issue , Casey appeal on ineeffective assistance of cousnel, way back in Jan 2009:

http://backseatlawyer.blogspot.com/2009/01/who-is-jose-baez-besides-being-casey.html

Predicted this but looks like thinks the other big names might mean argument would not win on appeal.


(I cant figure out how to make this so you can click on the link and go there, sorry. You'll have to cut and paste this.)

Your link works just fine and thanks for the article.

 

[MD MOMMY]

Wow - $80K - those are some might expensive orange crates...

We also don't know for sure if ANY of the experts have been compensated so far regardless of whether they are on record as hired guns.

I need to go back and look for a more accurate amount. He estimated the hours and I figured it based on the rate of pay put forth by the JAC for experts. I know it was up there though.

ETA- his pay was "estimated" at 89K.

 

[MD MOMMY]

Wow - $80K - those are some might expensive orange crates...

We also don't know for sure if ANY of the experts have been compensated so far regardless of whether they are on record as hired guns.

Totally true. He could have had anyone look at evidence so far and if they didn't say what he wanted them to say we would never know about it. WHICH is possibly why this whole thing is so hush hush in regards to the money.

 

[The World According]

From my understanding, they are being paid from here forward. JB didn't specify to my knowledge who has been paid what prior to the hearing. HL did state he WAS pro bono, but apparently that has changed since the state is now picking up the tab.

Will the jury respect the experts opinions or see them as hired guns?"Why don't we make a list for the Prosecution of all the books currently out by the defense lawyers/experts.

We know Professor Lyons just released a book.

Dr. Badden and his wife Linda Kenny Badden released a book this year.

Kathy Reichs the forensic anthropologist released a book, 206 Bones.

Dr. Werner Spitz is the author and editor of the textbook, Medicolegal Investigation of Death, now in its third edition and considered to be the authoritative textbook in this specialty, worldwide.

Dr. Lee has a book out currently too.

Do we really wonder how and why being involved in a high profile case that is covered nationally and internationally helps them? Pro bono? How about free advertising?

We see them often on news and cable shows giving commentary, even about this case. So they clearly enjoy the limelight. Do you think it will effect their credibility with the jury when the prosecutor asks them if they are currently peddling a book? Even Dominic is rumored to be co authoring a book with Brad, mom and pop! What do you think?

From Bean E "*Very* interesting comment from Richard Hornsby on his blog in regards to the experts:


Richard Hornsby says:
December 29, 2009 at 10:38 am

snippet

...the problem an expert witness list creates for Baez is two-fold.

1. It requires your experts to finally give their opinion – and an opinion is no good unless is supports your theory. If their opinion does not support your theory, you don’t list them.

2. It allows the State to inquire into how they are getting paid, by whom, and financial arrangements they have made, and media rights they have negotiated, etc. And if the experts are doing this “pro bono” the State can then go into ulterior reasons they agreed to work on the case – books that are coming out, etc.

3. Finally, when the State deposes an expert (or any attorney deposes the other sides’ expert) the opponent has to pay the expert what the expert charges the hiring attorney. So if these experts are not charging Baez, they are not allowed to charge the State.

Basically the witness list opens Pandora’s Financial Box for Mr. Baez."

 

[The World According]

Transcribed from a Nancy show in December, 2008

"GRACE: Back to Dr. Henry Lee, who, as you all know, is a famed forensic scientist on the Anthony defense team. Dr. Lee, I`ve just got to ask you, you know, tot mom Casey Anthony was siphoning gasoline from her family`s car to fill up her own tank. How the heck are you getting paid? I`m sure you`re costing a pretty penny. Dr. Lee does not come cheap.

LEE: No, we did not get any pay for that and for -- I`ll say, you know, this country, as you know, everybody entitled a defense. And many forensic experts, we do pro bono cases and that`s our obligation to our profession. As an expert, we look at evidence, doesn`t matter inculpatory, exculpatory, we report (ph) as it is. I don`t think should be labeled as a defense expert going to just for defense. Many time, found more evidence, inculpatory evidence, than the police found. There -- you know, case history, case example, many time we`re allowed to work on the case together. Many of my cases, I let the defense expert observe. It`s nothing wrong.

GRACE: So Dr. Lee...

LEE: Nothing unusual.

GRACE: Dr. Lee, are you telling me that you are working on the case pro bono, for free?

LEE: Yes."

 

[jon_burrows]

My interpretation of what's going on is that the Defense knows what the aggravating factors are, but they want to know what the DIRECT evidence is (like KC's footprint where Caylee was found, fingerprint on duct tape, etc.) the State has that links KC to the unthinkable parts of the crime.

No one knows exactly how Caylee died or who placed the tape over her nose and mouth. We think we know but where is the concrete proof?
The Defense wants to know if the State has forensic evidence that shows it is KC who put Caylee in the place that allowed her remains to be tossed about by nature.

BBM - The jury won't decide this case on one piece of evidence. It's the totality of the evidence that points directly to her. The legal burden for the prosecution is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. They have that in spades. If they had found Caylee's body earlier (while there were still fingerprints on the tape), I'd be surprised if George's prints weren't on there too. I'm sure he handled the tape many times before Casey got her hands on it. He may have even pulled some duct tape from the roll, realized he didn't need that much, then rolled it back up...leaving his prints on the sticky side. It wouldn't mean he had anything at all to do with the murder. I guess what I'm trying to say is the absence of finger prints doesn't provide reasonable doubt as whether or not she did the crime. IMO

She probably will try ineffective counsel as her reason for appealing but she has too many good lawyers/experts on her side for that to happen. IMO

 

[Aedrys]

BBM - The jury won't decide this case on one piece of evidence. It's the totality of the evidence that points directly to her. The legal burden for the prosecution is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. They have that in spades. If they had found Caylee's body earlier (while there were still fingerprints on the tape), I'd be surprised if George's prints weren't on there too. I'm sure he handled the tape many times before Casey got her hands on it. He may have even pulled some duct tape from the roll, realized he didn't need that much, then rolled it back up...leaving his prints on the sticky side. It wouldn't mean he had anything at all to do with the murder. I guess what I'm trying to say is the absence of finger prints doesn't provide reasonable doubt as whether or not she did the crime. IMO

She probably will try ineffective counsel as her reason for appealing but she has too many good lawyers/experts on her side for that to happen. IMO

ITA. I swear, the attitude of some people here is that if a body is left to rot out in the elements so long that no proof is possible, then the person who committed the crime should get away with it. That is just ridiculous. People can draw a reasonable conclusion from the mountain of evidence in this case without a video of Casey doing the deed or direct evidence like fingerprints on the duct tape. Sheesh.

And to get back on topic, yeah, she's going to try to appeal for ineffective counsel, and it will be the quickest turn down of an appeal in history. She has no chance.