MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #6 - Chauvin Trial Day 3

[turaj]

Many of the talking heads on cable are stating that the witnesses so far have been very emotional and have given compelling testimony- One of the attorney commenters described being somewhat upset with the line of questioning by the defense, attempting to portray the crowd as "unruly" and hostile.

What I have learned from watching trials and listening to talking heads, is that what they think may be the total opposite from what the jury is thinking. We Simply don't know how the testimony from these witnesses is impacting them. I know this though, when a defense attorney can rile up a witness to a point where a judge has to admonish that witness, it is not a good thing for the prosecution.

I find the defense's relentless questioning of these witnesses troublesome- With their questions, they are planting the idea in the minds of the jurors that this crowd was so out of control that the police were unable to concentrate on the man they had in custody. While I find that theory ludicrous, it just might work. I've seen stranger theories in trials that I never thought would be successful, but in fact were successful.

all part of building this "out of control mob theory" and yet they have to show the video of a number of obviously young mostly kids standing around. It does not compute and defense will fail on this one.

 

[turaj]

Many of the talking heads on cable are stating that the witnesses so far have been very emotional and have given compelling testimony- One of the attorney commenters described being somewhat upset with the line of questioning by the defense, attempting to portray the crowd as "unruly" and hostile.

What I have learned from watching trials and listening to talking heads, is that what they think may be the total opposite from what the jury is thinking. We Simply don't know how the testimony from these witnesses is impacting them. I know this though, when a defense attorney can rile up a witness to a point where a judge has to admonish that witness, it is not a good thing for the prosecution.

I find the defense's relentless questioning of these witnesses troublesome- With their questions, they are planting the idea in the minds of the jurors that this crowd was so out of control that the police were unable to concentrate on the man they had in custody. While I find that theory ludicrous, it just might work. I've seen stranger theories in trials that I never thought would be successful, but in fact were successful.

all part of building this "out of control mob theory" and yet they have to show the video of a number of obviously young mostly kids standing around. It does not compute and defense will fail on this one.

Well, she’s not just an average citizen. She’s a firefighter so she’s used to being in high stress situations to say the least. She also may testify in court at times as part of her job. LE, medics, firefighters testify all the time. My point is it is fair to hold her to a different standard of professionalism. This may be her first time testifying but it’s certainly possible it won’t be her last as a firefighter.

Obviously this event was traumatizing and stressful and no one can deny that. Judge Cahill gave her a lot of latitude. He’s been very attentive with everyone in that courtroom and makes sure witnesses and jurors especially feel comfortable. He’s one of the most attentive judges I’ve seen.

It’s ok for her to be emotional. But she wasn’t answering the questions and was being argumentative. It was explained to her to wait for the question and give yes or no answers. She ignored that polite admonishment. She wanted to advocate for a certain perspective but that’s not her job as a witness. She got progressively argumentative. And then got got snippy with the judge too. She obviously got a lot wrong about the scene, which is normal as a bystander but she didn’t want to acknowledge that. Nelson quoted the times medics were called from the CAD report and she flat out said she didn’t believe it and it was wrong!! Those are official business records that have been introduced in evidence. At one point right after she was told not to interrupt, she literally interrupted after the first word of the question. So if she’s irritable at being interrupted then the judge and Nelson have a right to be irritable at HER interruptions as well. And her opinions are not relevant and the defense has a right to object and the judge to sustain and cut her off. If she was indeed prepped properly, then it’s even more inexcusable IMO.

Well I sure did not like the way the judge spoke with her but this summary above makes perfect sense to me. Gives me more to think about on this one. Thanks.

 

[ElizaKate]

Just catching up on that body cam footage posted by Dixie on the last thread. Probably way behind on the conversation sorry.

Very disturbing to watch but it does give an important perspective that I hadn't seen before. The difficulties they faced trying to get him to cooperate with what was a simple request to sit in the car. The claustrophobic comments and the "I can't breath" comments started way before he was on the floor. For these reasons I think some of those officers misinterpreted what was occurring as a result.

That said...... why they continued to sit on him when he stopped responding to anything, and when they said they couldn't find a pulse I don't know...

MOO

 

[turaj]

I can't imagine that out of four state attorney's she wasn't well prepped. All the other witnesses seemed to be. Williams was very careful not to appear angry or paint the "crowd" as being angry. The dispatcher was careful not to cast blame at police.

As long as she doesn't make the same mistakes as she did yesterday, I think she will be fine. Hopefully prosecutors have reiterated to her how important this case is. If she wants justice for George, she should be able to control herself. Maybe today we will hear a couple of "no sirs," or "yes, your honor."

She will be much more controlled today....state had a long chat with her. Don't challenge the court...it is rule #1 I was surprised at how she spoke to the judge.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Strong woman really being talked down to by the judge. I lost a bit of respect for Peter Cahill. Personally I think he had received the info about the photo op with Ellison and knew he was going to have to deal with it and was in a very bad frame of mind when he addressed Hansen. She did not deserve that.

The photo op probably didn't help. I feel Judge Cahill is doing a fantastic job at keeping order in his court room. It's still early in the trial and he needs to set boundaries for a smooth trial.

 

[happyday]

Many of the talking heads on cable are stating that the witnesses so far have been very emotional and have given compelling testimony- One of the attorney commenters described being somewhat upset with the line of questioning by the defense, attempting to portray the crowd as "unruly" and hostile.

What I have learned from watching trials and listening to talking heads, is that what they think may be the total opposite from what the jury is thinking. We Simply don't know how the testimony from these witnesses is impacting them. I know this though, when a defense attorney can rile up a witness to a point where a judge has to admonish that witness, it is not a good thing for the prosecution.

I find the defense's relentless questioning of these witnesses troublesome- With their questions, they are planting the idea in the minds of the jurors that this crowd was so out of control that the police were unable to concentrate on the man they had in custody. While I find that theory ludicrous, it just might work. I've seen stranger theories in trials that I never thought would be successful, but in fact were successful.

You’re right that we don’t know what the jury is thinking. But I think the strategy that DC was so concerned about the “hostile” crowd will backfire since there is video of a small group of mostly kids and a FF pleading (and yes yelling) at LE that GF was dying. Never violent, never getting too close. Just desperate. And IMO the defense then badgering these emotional (some minor) witnesses on the stand and even flat out trying to get Williams to admit that he was angry is a bad look for the defense.

 

[happyday]

" This is a yes or no question". Trips you up either way. The attorney stating that ( from either side) is not wanting your 'yeah, buts' They are anticipating your answer....without additions.

I HATE those questions! Especially about something so important. I know it’s a strategy and they do it all the time, but I felt her struggle trying to answer and I think I wouldn’t have been able to do it either. Grrrrrrr!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I agree with you, but I think the defense will bring into evidence that George ingested these drugs right around the same time all of this was occurring.

Jmho

If so close to death, wouldn't that have been found in his stomach contents (or anus as he admitted to hooping - I had to google what that meant... as everyone else here did ? ). Orrrrrr, did the autopsy even show such/look/test for such?

 

[happyday]

Just catching up on that body cam footage posted by Dixie on the last thread. Probably way behind on the conversation sorry.

Very disturbing to watch but it does give an important perspective that I hadn't seen before. The difficulties they faced trying to get him to cooperate with what was a simple request to sit in the car. The claustrophobic comments and the "I can't breath" comments started way before he was on the floor. For these reasons I think some of those officers misinterpreted what was occurring as a result.

That said...... why they continued to sit on him when he stopped responding to anything, and when they said they couldn't find a pulse I don't know...

MOO

Exactly. Even MORE of a reason not to sit on and push on him continuously. Even MORE damaging for DC IMO.

 

[Dogface]

Been a long time since I have posted here - but is there not a specific charge for someone required to render aid and failing to do so?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

We just went live for today... on seal of course. Not started yet at 9:46 ET am. Just a link for your convenience.

OF NOTE: This is day 3 of trial, but some media organizations in their files will call it day 15 as they are including Juror voir dire etc. I'll put that information in the media thread MN - George Floyd, 46, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 **Media & Timeline - NO DISCUSSION also as may be confusing later on.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

You’re right that we don’t know what the jury is thinking. But I think the strategy that DC was so concerned about the “hostile” crowd will backfire since there is video of a small group of mostly kids and a FF pleading (and yes yelling) at LE that GF was dying. Never violent, never getting too close. Just desperate. And IMO the defense then badgering these emotional (some minor) witnesses on the stand and even flat out trying to get Williams to admit that he was angry is a bad look for the defense.

At the same time, they are saying LE was attentive to the crowd and LE didn't allow them to get closer.

 

[MsBetsy]

Many of the talking heads on cable are stating that the witnesses so far have been very emotional and have given compelling testimony- One of the attorney commenters described being somewhat upset with the line of questioning by the defense, attempting to portray the crowd as "unruly" and hostile.

What I have learned from watching trials and listening to talking heads, is that what they think may be the total opposite from what the jury is thinking. We Simply don't know how the testimony from these witnesses is impacting them. I know this though, when a defense attorney can rile up a witness to a point where a judge has to admonish that witness, it is not a good thing for the prosecution.

I find the defense's relentless questioning of these witnesses troublesome- With their questions, they are planting the idea in the minds of the jurors that this crowd was so out of control that the police were unable to concentrate on the man they had in custody. While I find that theory ludicrous, it just might work. I've seen stranger theories in trials that I never thought would be successful, but in fact were successful.

I don't think it's working. It seems almost laughable to try to portray the few bystanders as an angry crowd, especially since many of them were underage.

Even pointing out that Williams kept calling Chauvin a bum and a real man wasn't that effective. He wasn't shouting and his tone was if he could have been talking to a friend, saying that's terrible, man, that's really too bad. He sounded concerned rather than angry.

I heard him say "check his pulse, he's not breathing bro, he's not even breathing," more times than I heard him call them a bum. Then at the end I thought he said, you just killed him, man.

 

[Weki]

Also just to note, when the defense puts on its case, the prosecutors get to ask their witnesses yes or no questions. Or leading questions as they’re called. There are usually some feisty exchanges between prosecutors and defense experts. So this is all par for the course. Nelson is just doing his job. And he’s not even that confrontational right now. He’s saving his energy for the medical experts. I think we will see a different side of him then.

JMO

 

[Bravo]

Good morning all. I am just here today until late morning.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Just catching up on that body cam footage posted by Dixie on the last thread. Probably way behind on the conversation sorry.

Very disturbing to watch but it does give an important perspective that I hadn't seen before. The difficulties they faced trying to get him to cooperate with what was a simple request to sit in the car. The claustrophobic comments and the "I can't breath" comments started way before he was on the floor. For these reasons I think some of those officers misinterpreted what was occurring as a result.

That said...... why they continued to sit on him when he stopped responding to anything, and when they said they couldn't find a pulse I don't know...

MOO

If you saw that video, you will see that they finally SHOVED him face down lodging him into the floorwell of the back seat. I would go nuts if that was done to me, and certainly is not a deescalation. If they thought he was on drugs... not the tone to deescalate. MOO

 

[turaj]

It seemed that Ms. Hansen had not been prepared in terms of the sequence of testimony...ie I will ask you the questions...then you will be challenged by Mr. Nelson...just WAIT and I will come back on cross and you can then tell you whole story without interruptions. She needs to wait for State to rehab any damaging answers.

 

[kaen]

From the last thread (I don't know how to bring over):
Tippy Lynn wrote:
"Speaking of training.

The Minnesota Police Department included instructions on how to use a controversial neck restraint in its training manual, according to court documents, the same type of restraint that was used on George Floyd.
The Minneapolis Police Department trained its officers to use the neck restraint that led to George Floyd's killing, according to court documents."



From the same article, the manual states that:

The training manual, issued to all new officers, also features an image of how to execute the neck restraint. "Ok they are in handcuffs now what," the title above the image states. The department warns that "sudden cardiac arrest typically occurs immediately following a violent struggle." It also advises officers to "place the subject in the recovery position to alleviate positional asphyxia" and encourages officers to call emergency services once the suspect is in handcuffs. The Minneapolis Police Department trained its officers to use the neck restraint that led to George Floyd's killing, according to court documents

If the new recruits had this manual, they would have been trained that he should have been in the recovery position. If Chauvin was trained, he should have known the dangers and placed him in the recovery position and checked vitals.

 

[Niner]

I hear voices with the seal up...

1 from yesterday too....

Cathy Russon
@cathyrusson
·
15h
#DerekChauvinTrial - More from the pool reporter on jury reaction to fiery cross between Nelson and Hansen:
"some jurors seemed uncomfortable with the level of hostility that developed during cross"




57m
#DerekChauvinTrial - Court resumes at 9am ct/10am et with any motions/non-jury business and testimony resumes at 9:30 ct/10:30et with off-duty firefighter/EMT Genevieve Hansen still on the stand. A lot of these bystanders in this still shot testified yesterday

link: https://twitter.com/cathyrusson



Hopefully Cathy will be tweeting more - I'll wait for more tweets this time & then post them.

 

[MsBetsy]

Been a long time since I have posted here - but is there not a specific charge for someone required to render aid and failing to do so?

I don't know about a specific charge, but in this case it could be considered "reckless" or "negligent" behavior, which in addition to the neck kneeling and other restraints, might be considered a risk they should have known could lead to physical harm or death.