MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #15

[human]

It seems other evidence has disappeared also. Getting to the truth IS going to take a miracle! With things disappearing, I suppose a FULL investigation could not be carried out, so it seems they're lying about investigating also. I think this JEW case is a very, very, mishandled case, going all the way back to the contamination of the crime scene.

Letting a suspected perp go if there is evidence near his person, related to the crime, is obtuse. What did he know, who did he know about, and how many did he know about?

Have you read Eloc's book?

The only thing we know about the crime scene being contaminated is that Kevin drove on it and DR came down it in the AM.

Otherwise, the HORSES were on SATURDAY!

 

[Sasquatch321]

The only time that matters on the driveway is 915 to 950 pm. LE should have been able to capture the activity of two, two ton vehicles on the driveway.

 

[ThePhantom]

I realize I'm reaching now but since Hollinger was in the media business and knew a lot of people, is there any chance he may have known the people who were hosting the party the Wetterlings attended? Thanks.

 

[human]

I realize I'm reaching now but since Hollinger was in the media business and knew a lot of people, is there any chance he may have known the people who were hosting the party the Wetterlings attended? Thanks.

Even if he did, so what? How would anyone guess the children were going to go out that night?

And then there is time and distance to cover even if he could be called somehow.

Don't most molesters pick vulnerable children?

Jacob was not a vulnerable child.

 

[ThePhantom]

Very true, human. I've always had the feeling Jacob was stalked and targeted. Someone liked the way he looked, enough so that even though Aaron was the same age, he told him to "go" because he wanted Jacob. (in my opinion)

 

[Jewelia]

They are not lying, nor is evidence disappearing. The evidence was ordered destroyed years after the suspect was let go and dismissed. What is curious is why he was let go and dismissed and what was destroyed?


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There we're some tapes that disappeared, but maybe those were destroyed also. Maybe Pam Jensen wasn't aware of them, but then she was given copies again, then those disappeared. Who knows.

Yes, it is curious. Thanks.

 

[Jewelia]

Yes, Kevin, but I also heard from another source there was more contamination of the crime scene I heard this from a couple people that live there. If this is true, this would also contribute to the problems with the investigation.

YES, I ordered the book yesterday......so yeah, I'll be reading the book.

 

[chaplain1]

Hollinger was smart enough to call an attorney. Given how many are falsely accused and convicted, it is amazing anyone actually allows a police officer to question them for hours. DR sent a nasty letter talking about how he was violated, why has he not rationally hired an attorney? In my book, there is no honor in failing to lawyer up because you feel peer pressured by le.

 

[Jewelia]

Even if he did, so what? How would anyone guess the children were going to go out that night?

And then there is time and distance to cover even if he could be called somehow.

Don't most molesters pick vulnerable children?

Jacob was not a vulnerable child.

The perp would know they were out, if he was tipped off by another party that the boys would be out. Just another thing to consider.

Also, we don't know for a fact if Jacob was vulnerable or not. We weren't living in the home with the Wetterlings, and things aren't always what they appear to be.

 

[chaplain1]

The perp would know they were out, if he was tipped off by another party that the boys would be out. Just another thing to consider.

Also, we don't know for a fact if Jacob was vulnerable or not. We weren't living in the home with the Wetterlings, and things aren't always what they appear to be.

There is nothing on either one. Patty decided to go to a work party because the kids has off the next day. She told the kids not to go, Jerry said they could. Poor Jerry.

 

[tinner007]

I didn't get a warm reception either when I started asking questions about the Guimond case. I guess they don't want to taint the case in any way. My attitude about cold cases is go for it -- throw everything at it you can until you uncover the truth. Then again, how do I know LE doesn't have an inkling about what might have happened to Joshua and/or Jacob. They might be trying to piece together all kinds of things. I hope so.

Everyone should be asking them questions. The Stearns County Sheriff's Office has a clearance rate of only 38% of their caseload as you can see by the Annual BCA Crime Stats. I've included a comparison with Cold Spring police department with far less resources at their disposal coming in at 55%. If you only got 38% of your job completed, how long would you have a job? Not sure you want to hear them comment anyway considering in 2005 Sheriff Sanner was quoted by the Maple Lake Messenger (Josh G's hometown newspaper) saying "It's likely Josh wandered into a heavily swampy area and sank in the mud".......WHAT?!?! I've lived in the Saint Joseph/Saint Cloud area my whole life. I spend many hours outdoors, doing many different recreational activities, not once have I experienced, have I ever heard of someone in the area, or anywhere for that matter being consumed by man eating mud. The small number of cases where people have lost their lives by what some may call "Quicksand", only sank waist deep and died of exposure. It takes one heck of an ego to go on record insulting the intelligence of the missing, as well as the missing's family by making such an outlandish and uneducated stupid comment such as that. He wouldn't even acknowledge him as missing being there was no evidence of foul play and because he was an adult. No clothes, no bank activity, no car, no glasses.....Josh just walked away with nothing and without anyone ever seeing that young man again. Why did it take years to recognize him as missing? Why was assistance from Maple Lake volunteers refused by the sheriff's office? If someone is missing, why wait in starting a search for the individual. A life is a life, adult or a child they should all be treated the same and acted upon immediately. As far as naming POI's, the SCSO tends to do that with absolute disregard and based on complete lies....first hand experience, and I know this for a fact....and that's info straight from the horses mouth per say.

MN BCA Annual Crime Rate Stats



-If a situation seems in need of questions, ask questions. It's your right!

 

[tinner007]

Here's one more for those interested - Green numbers on top mean lower than national average. Red numbers on the bottom are lower than the national average (Failing Grades). How can a county have considerably less crime, but failing clearance rates. One would think with the lower than national average crime rates, they would have more time to work the cases they do have..... IDK, doesn't make sense to me.

 

[tinner007]

They are not lying, nor is evidence disappearing. The evidence was ordered destroyed years after the suspect was let go and dismissed. What is curious is why he was let go and dismissed and what was destroyed?


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They're not lying? Are you saying that as a matter of fact, or just guessing? I'll prove to you the SCSO lies hopefully in the near future, got a little more work to do and also have to work with other time constraint factors of the justice system.

 

[tinner007]

Hollister's trailer was near Big Fish Lake in Paynesville. The church that was searched up by Bruno is not really close to Paynesville. It was thought that Hollister may have had some connection there also (later in his life). Perhaps ELOC can give you more details.

Big Fish Lake is actually a couple miles north of Cold Spring just to keep info correct.

 

[ThePhantom]

Good question, Trino. I've asked around throughout the years, most people I made an inquiry with said they thought Sanner was a decent guy and his heart is in the right place. Well, I despise the way he and his staff have treated the Guimond family, and I didn't like it much the way he basically dismissed me. Okay, I'm not anyone anyway, just another person actively seeking the truth in some of the disappearances in that area. I have nothing to trade or offer, I am not a big fish in a little pond there.

Tinner007, with regard to Josh, I think the truth may be locked up in that steel box of secrets the church keeps. All in the name of forgiveness and love. B.S. It's all in the name of protecting the reputation of the church and minimizing its exposure to lawsuits. And what about the victims? What did they do to deserve to have their right to happiness and even life itself dismissed? The answer of course is NOTHING. I'm still bewildered that St. John's hasn't been held accountable for its numerous transgressions throughout the past decades the same way Penn State was. Well it doesn't give one a sense of confidence that the truth will purportedly be sought by a sheriff with a huge conflict of interest in connection with some of these investigations.

Now let's move to Jacob and Jared and tie it all together. I know each of us has our own views about the competency of the sheriff and his staff. I will just say that standing back, way back, it looks as though much ado is made about the tragedy of the victims, but perhaps more protections are afforded their perpetrators. Why was Hollinger released when there was incriminating evidence in Jared's case? Was his alibi for the night Jacob went missing thoroughly checked? This man was a Big Fish in a little pond, no pun intended -- who did he know that was powerful enough to get him off the hook? How many people in this cadre of investigators were/are related to St. John's and knew the attorneys who represented the abbey/church? Was Hollinger’s lawyer affiliated with St. John’s in any way? Also, what was the relationship between Hollinger's lawyer and the judge? Where are the judge and lawyer now?

Jacob: the perpetrator targeted Jacob and wanted him. Perhaps he did not mean to kill him, but he definitely wanted specifically him to satisfy his aberrant desires. Got a little liquid courage going perhaps and put the plan into action. After all, it worked before -- might have gotten caught in Jared's case, but being the big fish he was, he got off the hook. Time went by though and perp may have seen Jacob out fishing, and playing hockey. There's that desire again and there's the target. Did Hollinger get divorced around that time? How did he know the boys were going to the store? Well how does any stalker know what their prey is up to -- they watch, and wait, until the timing is right. In Jacob's case it may be that the lonely rural road near the Wetterling home in the black of night afforded him the opportunity he had been waiting for. Turn each boy over and look at his face -- can't see real well in the pitch black but knows one of these kids is Jacob -- one, two, three -- bingo, got him.
The evidence potentially connecting Hollinger to Jared's case was *destroyed.* Someone went to the trouble of going back to that judge to make 100% sure anything that could possibly incriminate Hollinger in the future was gone forever. Hollinger won’t make that mistake twice. Sounds like a misuse and abuse of power. I pray ELOC's book finds its way into the hands of friends and family of Hollinger who decide to think back to those nights twenty five years ago. Any confessions Hollister may have made to a priest will never come to light because you've got the proverbial foxes guarding the hen house. But the conscience of a family member or friend might finally get the better of them.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Everyone should be asking them questions. The Stearns County Sheriff's Office has a clearance rate of only 38% of their caseload as you can see by the Annual BCA Crime Stats. I've included a comparison with Cold Spring police department with far less resources at their disposal coming in at 55%. If you only got 38% of your job completed, how long would you have a job? Not sure you want to hear them comment anyway considering in 2005 Sheriff Sanner was quoted by the Maple Lake Messenger (Josh G's hometown newspaper) saying "It's likely Josh wandered into a heavily swampy area and sank in the mud".......WHAT?!?! I've lived in the Saint Joseph/Saint Cloud area my whole life. I spend many hours outdoors, doing many different recreational activities, not once have I experienced, have I ever heard of someone in the area, or anywhere for that matter being consumed by man eating mud. The small number of cases where people have lost their lives by what some may call "Quicksand", only sank waist deep and died of exposure. It takes one heck of an ego to go on record insulting the intelligence of the missing, as well as the missing's family by making such an outlandish and uneducated stupid comment such as that. He wouldn't even acknowledge him as missing being there was no evidence of foul play and because he was an adult. No clothes, no bank activity, no car, no glasses.....Josh just walked away with nothing and without anyone ever seeing that young man again. Why did it take years to recognize him as missing? Why was assistance from Maple Lake volunteers refused by the sheriff's office? If someone is missing, why wait in starting a search for the individual. A life is a life, adult or a child they should all be treated the same and acted upon immediately. As far as naming POI's, the SCSO tends to do that with absolute disregard and based on complete lies....first hand experience, and I know this for a fact....and that's info straight from the horses mouth per say.

MN BCA Annual Crime Rate Stats

View attachment 71755

-If a situation seems in need of questions, ask questions. It's your right!

The fact that Josh G was drinking that night and the fact that St Johns is surrounded by muddy ponds and lakes makes it a respectable theory that he could have wandered into the water and disappeared into a soft muddy bottom. Its not their only focus, but it is repectable. in judgement.

Alcohol has been aptly named the ubiquitous catalyst in predisposing people to submersion and drowning and has been implicated as a major factor in the many secondary causes of drowning.

http://www.alcohol.co.za/drowning.htm

 

[Jewelia]

The fact that Josh G was drinking that night and the fact that St Johns is surrounded by muddy ponds and lakes makes it a respectable theory that he could have wandered into the water and disappeared into a soft muddy bottom. Its not their only focus, but it is repectable. in judgement.

Alcohol has been aptly named the ubiquitous catalyst in predisposing people to submersion and drowning and has been implicated as a major factor in the many secondary causes of drowning.

http://www.alcohol.co.za/drowning.htm

I have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. Yes, alcohol can play a factor in drowning, but usually in the warmer months, and it's usually related to drunks in recreational activities. From what I understand he wasn't intoxicated enough to black out and wander into a muddy pond. It's absurd for the Sheriff's office to come up with such a BS theory, especially in light that his destination was 3 minutes away, and his friend said it's completely out of character for Josh to wander away. Josh came up missing in Nov. 2002, and logically he would not be near water in November.

I spoke with his father and grandfather...... I don't beleive SCSO is not doing as much as they could, in Josh G case, or the JEW case.

FYI----------> I read up on the alcohol related drowning statistics when I read about the smiley face killers, most happened in the winter. Read below:



"St. Cloud State University criminal justice faculty member Lee Gilbertson on Larry King Live:


If you actually look at the statistics on drownings, most drownings occur during the summer and they’re related to water activities like boating and water skiing and things like that. Very few drownings actually occur during the winter. And those are generally associated with ice fishing and snow- mobiling and things like that, up in our northern region."

https://healthcrimeinthenews.wordpress.com/tag/smiley-face-killer/

 

[human]

Good question, Trino. I've asked around throughout the years, most people I made an inquiry with said they thought Sanner was a decent guy and his heart is in the right place. Well, I despise the way he and his staff have treated the Guimond family, and I didn't like it much the way he basically dismissed me. Okay, I'm not anyone anyway, just another person actively seeking the truth in some of the disappearances in that area. I have nothing to trade or offer, I am not a big fish in a little pond there.

Tinner007, with regard to Josh, I think the truth may be locked up in that steel box of secrets the church keeps. All in the name of forgiveness and love. B.S. It's all in the name of protecting the reputation of the church and minimizing its exposure to lawsuits. And what about the victims? What did they do to deserve to have their right to happiness and even life itself dismissed? The answer of course is NOTHING. I'm still bewildered that St. John's hasn't been held accountable for its numerous transgressions throughout the past decades the same way Penn State was. Well it doesn't give one a sense of confidence that the truth will purportedly be sought by a sheriff with a huge conflict of interest in connection with some of these investigations.

Now let's move to Jacob and Jared and tie it all together. I know each of us has our own views about the competency of the sheriff and his staff. I will just say that standing back, way back, it looks as though much ado is made about the tragedy of the victims, but perhaps more protections are afforded their perpetrators. Why was Hollinger released when there was incriminating evidence in Jared's case? Was his alibi for the night Jacob went missing thoroughly checked? This man was a Big Fish in a little pond, no pun intended -- who did he know that was powerful enough to get him off the hook? How many people in this cadre of investigators were/are related to St. John's and knew the attorneys who represented the abbey/church? Was Hollinger’s lawyer affiliated with St. John’s in any way? Also, what was the relationship between Hollinger's lawyer and the judge? Where are the judge and lawyer now?

Jacob: the perpetrator targeted Jacob and wanted him. Perhaps he did not mean to kill him, but he definitely wanted specifically him to satisfy his aberrant desires. Got a little liquid courage going perhaps and put the plan into action. After all, it worked before -- might have gotten caught in Jared's case, but being the big fish he was, he got off the hook. Time went by though and perp may have seen Jacob out fishing, and playing hockey. There's that desire again and there's the target. Did Hollinger get divorced around that time? How did he know the boys were going to the store? Well how does any stalker know what their prey is up to -- they watch, and wait, until the timing is right. In Jacob's case it may be that the lonely rural road near the Wetterling home in the black of night afforded him the opportunity he had been waiting for. Turn each boy over and look at his face -- can't see real well in the pitch black but knows one of these kids is Jacob -- one, two, three -- bingo, got him.
The evidence potentially connecting Hollinger to Jared's case was *destroyed.* Someone went to the trouble of going back to that judge to make 100% sure anything that could possibly incriminate Hollinger in the future was gone forever. Hollinger won’t make that mistake twice. Sounds like a misuse and abuse of power. I pray ELOC's book finds its way into the hands of friends and family of Hollinger who decide to think back to those nights twenty five years ago. Any confessions Hollister may have made to a priest will never come to light because you've got the proverbial foxes guarding the hen house. But the conscience of a family member or friend might finally get the better of them.

There have been several Sheriffs,the BCA,the FBI and NEMEC. They are all covering?

Doesn't that sound a little impossible?

 

[ThePhantom]

No, I don't think everyone is covering, but I think someone, or perhaps a few, are covering some thing. I'm harkening back to info another WSer posted a few months back that showed what I perceived to be as close to concrete as one can get with regard to connecting Hollinger to Jared's assault. Ok that was a terrible run on sentence but I know other souls here must have seen this particular list as well. Granted, there is much more the public as not been told, though I dare say there are a few, even on this thread, who know much more than the average bear -- myself being one of those bears. It's frustrating.

 

[Jewelia]

There have been several Sheriffs,the BCA,the FBI and NEMEC. They are all covering?

Doesn't that sound a little impossible?

No, but several in LE have messed up, and some have covered up. It doesn't take ALL of them to cover it up.... But if there's enough of them in higher positions, that's all it takes.