MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #15

[ELOCsoul]

Granted there are a lot of "groom and seduce" type pedophiles that had geographic ties to central Minn around the time of Jacob's disappearance. Still, can anyone find an example of a "groom and seduce" pedophile who went on to forcibly abduct a child he did not know.

This is a very good point. Along those same lines, there are so many unusual aspects of Jacob's case that one has to wonder if the abductor was so unique that he defied the characteristics of prototypical kidnappers? A mask, a gun, witnesses, a dead end road....all rarities.

 

[Jewelia]

Granted there are a lot of "groom and seduce" type pedophiles that had geographic ties to central Minn around the time of Jacob's disappearance. Still, can anyone find an example of a "groom and seduce" pedophile who went on to forcibly abduct a child he did not know.

I can't give an example that I know of that has been documented, but many grooming type pedophiles have been known to kill their victims, or become violent. I think if their usual modus operandi begins to fail them, that it is very possible they could abduct and assault victims IMO.

Maybe check this out:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...b1DlALaPahAMniffg&sig2=SpSOlGlzKFi5xMd9_QiJUg

 

[Sasquatch321]

It's Friday, March 20, 2015. Over 4 years ago DR was named a POI in the investigation. LE is currently under order from a judge to not discuss these details, as doing so could hamper a future prosecution. Against DR or against the person DR is helping LE catch. All in all this is good news because something more is happening in the war room then we know. To name DR and put his family name and career on the line has to mean either DR is their best witness and they have found this person, or he is connected to the crime himself.

 

[Jewelia]

It's Friday, March 20, 2015. Over 4 years ago DR was named a POI in the investigation. LE is currently under order from a judge to not discuss these details, as doing so could hamper a future prosecution. Against DR or against the person DR is helping LE catch. All in all this is good news because something more is happening in the war room then we know. To name DR and put his family name and career on the line has to mean either DR is their best witness and they have found this person, or he is connected to the crime himself.

This is good news, and I hope it goes somewhere this time, and it's not just something they're saying. Whoever, is involved, I hope they get down to the bottom of it!! I still feel Bahners are still in the mix somewhere, but it ultimately doesn't matter, as long as they find who did this, and they get him roped down, and put into jail. I just feel there's so much more involved than we know.

 

[chaplain1]

This is a very good point. Along those same lines, there are so many unusual aspects of Jacob's case that one has to wonder if the abductor was so unique that he defied the characteristics of prototypical kidnappers? A mask, a gun, witnesses, a dead end road....all rarities.

Actuarial tables exist to identify recidivism and likelihood of violence. These tools include a Psychopathology Checklists and a Violence Appraisal. I would link to them but my notebook does not do pdf well.

Carla Van Dam's The Socially Skilled Child Molester (2006:Haworth Press) is a non-technical book which helps explains an abusers motivation. They are similar to the motivations others have for intimacy. For most groomers, a violent abduction would not make them feel intimacy or any reciprocity. Some believe they are giving children a gift.

Abductors are seen as analogous to other violent sexual crimes where power is the primary motivator.

I am sure some groomers become violent, I just don't think it would satisfy their relational need.

The Babysitter Murders of Detroit to me blend the two most closely. The perp abducted the four children, took care of them for several days and then killed them. He meticulously cleaned them after death to either absolve himself or to honor their personhood.

 

[human]

This gives me chills- from ELOC's book


In an interview with a television station reporter, Rassier himself revealed some of the items that investigators had taken from the property. Those items included a cedar chest, an um- brella stand, a lawn chair, and a box containing newspaper clippings, photographs, and videos related to Jacob’s kidnapping. Rassier also acknowledged that investigators had previously searched the property in 1989 and again in 2004. He said they searched a personal computer in the home, although it was not specified whether the computer belonged to him or someone else in the family. Investigators have never revealed whether or not that search led to the discovery of any information relating to the Wetterling case.46

 

[human]

Another fact from Eloc's book, but I do not have the page.

There were 5000 documented sex offenders in MN at the time.

He figured it mathematically that there would be 133 in the area. Then there are the unknown

 

[human]

Another fact.

It was pitch black. Yet the perp knew that there were trees and where to send the boys running. How could someone not from the area know landscape?

 

[human]

Another fact.

DR stated that the car that came down was small. But the tire tracks would not support that because the distance between the wheels of a small vs a large car.

Kevin's gf car was larger. It must have fit the spread of the wheels.

 

[human]

DR was on the second floor of the house? How did he see into a car from the second floor? He stated he saw a woman and a child. Someone with their eyes cupped. Is that possible from the second story?

 

[shergal]

This gives me chills- from ELOC's book


In an interview with a television station reporter, Rassier himself revealed some of the items that investigators had taken from the property. Those items included a cedar chest, an um- brella stand, a lawn chair, and a box containing newspaper clippings, photographs, and videos related to Jacob’s kidnapping. Rassier also acknowledged that investigators had previously searched the property in 1989 and again in 2004. He said they searched a personal computer in the home, although it was not specified whether the computer belonged to him or someone else in the family. Investigators have never revealed whether or not that search led to the discovery of any information relating to the Wetterling case.46

I wonder if DR didn't take photos of those tracks up by the house right away? It says he had photographs. It would make sense that he would want to get shots of the tracks up near his house. Curious what else he would have had photos of pertaining to Jacob's case?

 

[Sasquatch321]

I wonder if DR didn't take photos of those tracks up by the house right away? It says he had photographs. It would make sense that he would want to get shots of the tracks up near his house. Curious what else he would have had photos of pertaining to Jacob's case?

It's funny they didn't find the photos in the first or second search. Also did they maybe find the journal in the first search of the house, but it just wasn't that interesting yet?

 

[Sasquatch321]

Another fact.

It was pitch black. Yet the perp knew that there were trees and where to send the boys running. How could someone not from the area know landscape?

He knew trees, ditch, he knew this was the best spot in that specific neighborhood that it could be done, barely.

 

[shergal]

It's funny they didn't find the photos in the first or second search. Also did they maybe find the journal in the first search of the house, but it just wasn't that interesting yet?

DR says he's a packrat, maybe they didn't see it amongst all his stuff? In 2010 he told them he had a box filled with Jacob stuff.

I wonder if DR knew Hollander at all? He was fairly well known locally because of his radio gig.

 

[Trino]

It's Friday, March 20, 2015. Over 4 years ago DR was named a POI in the investigation. LE is currently under order from a judge to not discuss these details, as doing so could hamper a future prosecution. Against DR or against the person DR is helping LE catch. All in all this is good news because something more is happening in the war room then we know. To name DR and put his family name and career on the line has to mean either DR is their best witness and they have found this person, or he is connected to the crime himself.

Do you have a reference that states LE is under orders not to discuss the case? I thought this was solely LE's decision.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Do you have a reference that states LE is under orders not to discuss the case? I thought this was solely LE's decision.

Sanner reminds everyone about this on "The Hunt" and also in some other interviews.

 

[Jewelia]

Do you have a reference that states LE is under orders not to discuss the case? I thought this was solely LE's decision.

I think when there's a kidnapping involved, it becomes a federal case, and because this case has gone unsolved so long, possibly the FBI does not need an invite from local LE. Just guessing,,,it makes sense.

If federal authorities are on to something, then they may order the case information be kept confidential, so the investigation isn't compromised. Local LE does this also. However, in this case, I think oversight is needed. With that many tips going nowhere, it's time for FBI to be more involved than they have been. I noticed on a timeline that FBI has been put on the case, then pulled off, and at times only an agent or two were taking tips. I'm not sure about the BCA, but I know they've been involved.

 

[kemo]

The FBI is notorious for not releasing information on active cases unless there is a compelling reason. Local Law Enforcement is more subject to political pressure. They might release information in order to reassure the public that the case is moving forwards.

The FBI can only take jurisdiction if a case meets certain criteria (such as kidnapping for ransom, terrorism, interstate crimes etc.) but they can assist local Law Enforcement under other circumstances. In those situations, the Locals would maintain jurisdiction and would have discretion on releasing information.

 

[human]

It's funny they didn't find the photos in the first or second search. Also did they maybe find the journal in the first search of the house, but it just wasn't that interesting yet?

Did they find it the first time? I doubt it

 

[human]

Do you have a reference that states LE is under orders not to discuss the case? I thought this was solely LE's decision.

Orders by whom? LE makes the decisions whether or not to share info and why.

I think it is fascinating in Eloc's book where one of the suspects was interrogated and the room and items in the room were totally designed and set up a certain way.

LE has lots of things they do that are based on research, probably done by elite crime investigators