MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #6

[eileenhawkeye]

Did they recognize his voice? Have his parents ever said whether they believed it was truly him?

I can only find one article that mentions it, and there's nothing from either parent saying whether they recognized the voice or not.

 

[ELOCsoul]

Story from this week on the anniversary of Jacob's abduction. Aside from the cases listed, also in the last week there has been an arrest in the case of Baby Hope, the toddler found dead in 1991. A couple weeks ago I posted that the mother had been found due to DNA evidence. Within a week the killer was arrested. Hope Remains for Jacob.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/23757740/jacob-wetterling-missing-24-years-reasons-for-hope

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/relative-arrested-baby-hope-case-article-1.1483690

 

[ELOCsoul]

Yes, Patty ran into DR at a health club and asked if they could talk and DR said, sure why not - it's been 20 years that we haven't talked. I think it was in 2010 after the digging at his farm, or close to that time. She said they talked for about an hour and she asked him if maybe it had been a prank that had gone wrong. (He was a known prankster and it was near Halloween.)

I think the 2010 search was done AFTER the meeting with Patty. I believe it was things that DR told Patty during this meeting(a conversation which I believe was recorded by LE), and DR's subsequent actions on the farm after LE questioned him, that led to the 2010 search.

An example of what he told Patty in this meeting is that Jacob's body could have been hidden in the gravel pit.

Just my opinion, based on information from someone familiar with this and other investigations in Stearns County.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

I think the 2010 search was done AFTER the meeting with Patty. I believe it was things that DR told Patty during this meeting(a conversation which I believe was recorded by LE), and DR's subsequent actions on the farm after LE questioned him, that led to the 2010 search.

An example of what he told Patty in this meeting is that Jacob's body could have been hidden in the gravel pit.

Just my opinion.

That had never crossed my mind. I had always thought it was just a random chance meeting. I'm curious, what makes you think their conversation was recorded?

 

[shergal]

So you think that it was a planned "chance encounter"? Interesting.

 

[ELOCsoul]

So you think that it was a planned "chance encounter"? Interesting.

Sort of. I believe they bumped into one another, and Patty asked for a meeting, and DR said something like "sure, 20 years is too long not to talk".

Here is a an excerpt from 9/28/10, KSTP.com:

http://www.immelman.us/news/wetterling-suspect-dan-rassier/

Sources also confirm part of the reason why the farm was searched again this summer, was because new investigators took on the case and discovered evidence that had not been examined before. Another reason why investigators converged on the farm this summer is because of advances in technology.

The K-9 searching the Rassier farm was flown to St. Joseph from Louisiana. The K-9 works very closely with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

We have also learned about a meeting between Daniel Rassier and Patty Wetterling within the past 10-months. Sources tell KSTP.com Wetterling requested a meeting with Daniel Rassier and asked him if he abducted Jacob.

Wetterling also asked Rassier if he had been playing a joke on the three boys and the joke went too far. During the meeting, Rassier told Wetterling what he saw the night Jacob went missing and again told her he had nothing to do with her son’s disappearance. …

 

[ELOCsoul]

OK, so I previously reported on the boy who called Crimestoppers from a payphone in Forrest, IL, and that was the one call that stuck with Patty because it seemed legit and wasn't proved to be a hoax.

Well I found an article from the St Joseph Leader (this is a tough paper to track down!!) The article is from 8/17/90.

Again, the call came on August 3, 1990. The caller said the following according to Chief Deputy Sheriff Jim Kostreba "He told the call taker he was phoning from Forrest, IL, and that he needed help". He said there was a red car involved and that he was a with a man but he didn't know his name, and then he said he had to go and hung up." The call lasted less than a minute.

Illinois authorities released information to the media, and a woman who works at a convenience store called to say she saw "someone who she thought was similar to Jacob" two days before, in the store. She served the boy and the man and soon after saw the boy make a phone call from a booth across the street from the store. She saw the man put the boy into a red station wagon and drive off.

Kostreba acknowledged the dept receiving other calls that were hoaxes but "this call is different".

In another article, same issue of same paper, Patty Wetterling notes optimism about that call, saying that the woman reported that the boy was thin like Jacob, had a "shabbily-cut home haircut" and a large mole on his face. (Jacob has a small mole). Patty expressed gratitude to the woman coming forward and submitting herself to a barrage of media attention.

 

[shergal]

I hope they sent someone out there from LE to look around for red station wagons. I can't imagine how Patty has gone through all of this all these years.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

OK, so I previously reported on the boy who called Crimestoppers from a payphone in Forrest, IL, and that was the one call that stuck with Patty because it seemed legit and wasn't proved to be a hoax.

Well I found an article from the St Joseph Leader (this is a tough paper to track down!!) The article is from 8/17/90.

Again, the call came on August 3, 1990. The caller said the following according to Chief Deputy Sheriff Jim Kostreba "He told the call taker he was phoning from Forrest, IL, and that he needed help". He said there was a red car involved and that he was a with a man but he didn't know his name, and then he said he had to go and hung up." The call lasted less than a minute.

Illinois authorities released information to the media, and a woman who works at a convenience store called to say she saw "someone who she thought was similar to Jacob" two days before, in the store. She served the boy and the man and soon after saw the boy make a phone call from a booth across the street from the store. She saw the man put the boy into a red station wagon and drive off.

Kostreba acknowledged the dept receiving other calls that were hoaxes but "this call is different".

In another article, same issue of same paper, Patty Wetterling notes optimism about that call, saying that the woman reported that the boy was thin like Jacob, had a "shabbily-cut home haircut" and a large mole on his face. (Jacob has a small mole). Patty expressed gratitude to the woman coming forward and submitting herself to a barrage of media attention.

Wow! I found some more information thorough old articles:

-The witness says she saw a man with the boy, but he did not match the description of the abductor.
-"The caller, who sounded upset, then abruptly said he had to go and hung up without explanation, according to a Stearns County investigator"
-"The phone booth was at Illinois state highways 24 and 47, a major crossroads for interstate traffic."
"Zorn said the boy who resembed Wetterling had a mole on his left cheek, just like Wetterling's, but had a very short, badly cut crewcut, as though someone cut his hair at home, Gayon said."
"The man with the boy was described as white, very stocky with a receding hairline, wearing a white T-shirt, Gayon said."
-Someone at another convience story in Forrest also had a possible sighting: "A clerk at the Quick Stop convenience store in Forrest also said she thought she saw a boy matching Jacob's description in town the same day."

 

[human]

I was thinking about the Jacob was stalked idea.

Remember, he had on a hockey jacket with his name on it. It Jacob had been specially selected, the jacket would be the giveaway. But, it wasn't .

The perp was looking for a boy of a certain age. Jacob was the unlucky one.

 

[JerseyJo]

I was thinking about the Jacob was stalked idea.

Remember, he had on a hockey jacket with his name on it. It Jacob had been specially selected, the jacket would be the giveaway. But, it wasn't .

The perp was looking for a boy of a certain age. Jacob was the unlucky one.

I had previously asked if anyone knew in which order, left to right, the boys were positioned in the ditch. Also, depending on the order of the boys, did the perp ask them their ages from left to right, or in a different order.

I think instinctively most people would go from left to right. This leads to me believe, based on the order the boys were asked their ages and then selected to run away, that Trevor was on the left, Aaron in the middle, Jacob on the right. If this is accurate (not sure if this has ever been confirmed) wouldn't that all but eliminate the theory that Jacob was being stalked? Possibly the perp selected Jacob because Jacob was in the unlucky position....last man standing so to speak.

I would be interested to hear some of the theories about the the perp asking the boys their ages. Does anyone think Jacob was being stalked and the perp was trying to identify him by age? This might be confusing since Jacob and Aaron were the same age. Or was the perp looking specifically for an eleven year old boy? Or when faced with the choice of two eleven year old boys, and 1 ten year old boy, the perp selected one of the older boys, Jacob.

Someone brought up the notion of a pedophile ring now having access to 3 vulnerable young boys...which would be a huge score I am assuming. I have never subscribed to that theory. If it was in fact a pedophile ring, would it make sense to take all 3 boys? Has there ever been a case of multiple children being abducted at the same time? I did a google search and could not find any related info.

 

[ELOCsoul]

I had previously asked if anyone knew in which order, left to right, the boys were positioned in the ditch. Also, depending on the order of the boys, did the perp ask them their ages from left to right, or in a different order.

I think instinctually most people would go from left to right. This leads to me believe, based on the order the boys were asked their ages and then selected to run away, that Trevor was on the left, Aaron in the middle, Jacob on the right. If this is accurate (not sure if this has ever been confirmed) wouldn't that all but eliminate the theory that Jacob was being stalked? Possibly the perp selected Jacob because Jacob was in the unlucky position....last man standing so to speak.

I would be interested to hear some of the theories about the the perp asking the boys their ages. Does anyone think Jacob was being stalked and the perp was trying to identify him by age? This might be confusing since Jacob and Aaron were the same age. Or was the perp looking specifically for an eleven year old boy? Or when faced with the choice of two eleven year old boys, and 1 ten year old boy, the perp selected one of the older boys, Jacob.

Someone brought up the notion of a pedophile ring now having access to 3 vulnerable young boys...which would be a huge score I am assuming. I have never subscribed to that theory. If it was in fact a pedophile ring, would it make sense to take all 3 boys? Has there ever been a case of multiple children being abducted at the same time? I did a google search and could not find any related info.

This is an interesting theory, and there have been several versions published of the selection process. I suspect that there are details of the process that have never been released to the public, preserving them as only the perp would know those details.

Until recently I had felt there was a strong possibility that Jacob was stalked and selected deliberately. That opinion was based on the premise that the 10 year old was released immediately, and when the remaining 2 boys were both age 11, the perp looked at Aaron's face and let him go. The general consensus now, though - is that each boy was asked their age, and each boy looked at. This has been confirmed from my communications with former FBI agent in charge Allen Garber. His opinion is that Jacob was selected based on age, and not actually targeted.

A couple of things I would argue against the theory of a pedophile ring taking all 3 boys:
1. Most likely there was a single abductor, in which case it would difficult to control all 3 boys, even at gunpoint.
2. Taking multiple boys that were friends / relatives would work counter to any brainwashing techniques the "ring" would employ. What I mean by this is a single boy's isolation would be to the ring's advantage, whereas multiple boys from a group would be more difficult to engage in mind control, because the boys would have some opportunities to communicate and support each other.

 

[TroyinTX]

"2. I am also not buying the theory that Jacob was abducted by some sex trafficking ring. It doesn't make much sense why such a group would be scouring the MN countryside at such an hour on a Sunday night looking for kids? Plus, if it was a sex trafficking/pedophile ring, why didn't the perp take the other two boys? I don't mean to sound crass here, but wouldn't three young boys be like a jackpot? If the perp truly had a gun and a car nearby, he could have easily gotten the three boys to go with him (especially if the theory that there were more than on person involved hold any water) and even if a boy got away, so what? Would the perp be in anymore of a difficult situation as he was by letting them go? They still would have had to run home, call the police, etc.. It just seems to me that if this was some huge pedophile ring, that three young, nice looking boys would have been VERY appealing.

3. Are we even sure that the perp had a REAL gun? I know Aaron stated he saw something shiny, but that could have been anything. In the dark, how easy would it have been to say you have a gun even if you didn't. The fact that he made the other boys run away before taking Jacob makes me think he possibly did not truly have a gun.

4. Because of the location and time, I also do not think that this was just some random pedophile. I truly think it was someone very familiar with the area and very familiar with the boys.

5. It seems the consensus by most is that the perp targeted Jacob--that Jacob was the one who he wanted. By all accounts, it certainly appears that he WAS the target. If he was then that kind of blows the random perp theory out of the water because the perp asked the boys for their AGES to, as many feel, identify which one was Jacob. If that is the case, then he HAD to know of Jacob previously to know his age."



I had posted this a few post back and mentioned that if this was some large pedophile ring, why not take or at least attempt to take all three boys? Certainly a grown man with a gun could get three boys into a nearby car with a gun and, like I mentioned above, even if one ran away, he would really be in no more of a difficult situation compared to letting two of them go. And it was my impression that there pedophile runs are large and in many cases, international. The boys could have been separated immediately to ensure that the brainwashing techniques work. By all accounts, they would not stay together anyway if what I have read about these rings is true.....

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

Just doing some thinking regarding the ring theory. Could Jacob have "switched hands?" Assuming that the abductor was acting alone that night, could he have taken Jacob (maybe not specifically targeting him, but looking for a boy his age and somehow happened upon the three boys that night) and then handed him off to someone else in exchange for money (or something else)? If the boy in Forrest, IL, was Jacob, this could explain why he didn't know the man's name. Maybe he had been handed off to someone else (who knows how many times).

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I am just wondering: How exactly did national media coverage work in 1989 for missing children? I believe the cable news channels, MSNBC, FOX, CNN, and HLN didn't exist yet. Neither did the Internet. Did the morning shows exist, did they cover missing kids? What about the evening news? I know Jacob's case was on A Current Affair, what other shows of that type existed back then? I'm guessing a lot more people read the newspaper back then, was his case covered in newspapers across the country? I could be wrong, but I feel like coverage for missing children changed drastically within just a few years with Megan Kanka and Polly Klaas. From reading old articles about Jacob's case, it seems like just being covered by one national show was a huge deal back then. Then again, most TV shows brought in a lot more viewers back then, so being covered by one show was probably the equivalent of being covered by 10-15 shows today, based on the number of people it would reach.

 

[shergal]

I am just wondering: How exactly did national media coverage work in 1989 for missing children? I believe the cable news channels, MSNBC, FOX, CNN, and HLN didn't exist yet. Neither did the Internet. Did the morning shows exist, did they cover missing kids? What about the evening news? I know Jacob's case was on A Current Affair, what other shows of that type existed back then? I'm guessing a lot more people read the newspaper back then, was his case covered in newspapers across the country? I could be wrong, but I feel like coverage for missing children changed drastically within just a few years with Megan Kanka and Polly Klaas. From reading old articles about Jacob's case, it seems like just being covered by one national show was a huge deal back then. Then again, most TV shows brought in a lot more viewers back then, so being covered by one show was probably the equivalent of being covered by 10-15 shows today, based on the number of people it would reach.

Jacob's abduction was covered by the local (Twin Cities) news stations nightly for a while. People magazine had an article on Jacob in 1989. The newspapers all around MN had lots of articles. I think America's Most Wanted featured Jacob's case, not sure if it was right away or not though.

A lot of the improved changes in coverage on missing children and data bases for offenders were brought about by Patty Wetterling.

Here is the original People magazine article on Jacob from 1989:
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20115979,00.html

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Jacob's abduction was covered by the local (Twin Cities) news stations nightly for a while. People magazine had an article on Jacob in 1989. The newspapers all around MN had lots of articles. I think America's Most Wanted featured Jacob's case, not sure if it was right away or not though.

A lot of the improved changes in coverage on missing children and data bases for offenders were brought about by Patty Wetterling.

Here is the original People magazine article on Jacob from 1989:
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20115979,00.html

Here are some information I was able to find about the media coverage around '89-'90:

The kidnapping and subsequent effort to find the boy was voted top state news story of 1989 by Associated Press newspapers and broadcast stations

The abduction was featured in stories distributed worldwide by the Associated Press, the New York Times, USA Today and People magazine, and was broadcast on the national television networks and on television shows such as "A Current Affair ," "Inside Edition" and the "Geraldo Rivera" show.

The Wetterlings spent a physically and emotionally exhausting day Friday, rising before dawn to tape a segment for the CBS Morning News

The leads, many of which were gathered from television dramatizations, such as one on America's Most Wanted , have come from throughout the country, he said.

It stayed on the front pages of Twin Cities newspapers and led the top of the evening news at 5, 6 and 10 p.m. for nearly two weeks. The Pioneer Press Dispatch published Wetterling stories on its front page for nine straight days.

It was highlighted first on the "CBS Morning News" and then the "ABC Evening News ."

The Wetterlings have appeared on the network news, nationally syndicated talk shows and crime-solving programs and have been featured in Newsweek, The New York Times and other national publications.

 

[PonderingU]

Wondering if either of the two boys had noticed which hand the abductor had the gun in? Was he right or left handed? Is DR right or left handed?

 

[shergal]

Eileen, another magazine who published about Jacob's abduction was the Reader's Digest. They had a long, very detailed article about him on his 10 year anniversary. It was printed in the Nov. 1999 issue. You can read it in its entirety here - scroll down to the 6th entry titled "The boy who never came home."

http://missing87975.yuku.com/topic/2457#.Um2YAiiUBlp

 

[shergal]

That Reader's Digest article has more detailed info on that 3:11 phone call we were just discussing also.