MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #9

[shergal]

No citations, but it is on here somewhere.

DR stated that he had a student in the morning, so there is that car.

It is possible that DR was not thinking in the fever of idea of taking a child. He may have not thought out all of the issues such as tire tracks.

We are not hearing from LE. We are hearing DR's version of events.

A car racing up his driveway and then the same people returning to kidnap a child is beyond ridiculous . Did the kidnapper think the DR farm was filled with children? <modsnip>

A local student could have just walked to DR's house also. It was a small, safe town back then.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Is DR a Psychopath?

"Are some corporate CEO’s, doctors, lawyers, politicians and scientists psychopaths? The answer could be “yes” if you use a definition which labels individuals who are often intelligent and highly charismatic, but display a chronic inability to feel guilt, remorse or anxiety about any of their actions. Tack on the use of violence and intimidation to control others and satisfy selfish needs and the label expands."

http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/07/03/improving-the-definition-of-‘psychopath’/64.html

 

[FindTim]

Either way DR has insisted since day 1 after the abduction that their were "cars" that came up his driveway.

No, Joy mentioned "cars" in her lead in question - DR's remarks were in quotes.

 

[human]

Either way DR has insisted since day 1 after the abduction that their were "cars" that came up his driveway.

Why not. That takes the investigation away from him.

As far as him being POI, who said he is? WS members?

No. LE identified him as one

 

[ELOCsoul]

Either way DR has insisted since day 1 after the abduction that their were "cars" that came up his driveway.

I think it is more accurate to say that since 2010 he has insisted that he has said since day one there was more than one suspicious car in his driveway that day. Keep in mind also that the car that DR saw that was reported on, was not Kevin. So, by extension, that means DRs story, if true, means there were three suspicious cars that day, all of which turned around in the same spot.

I understand the media can overlook things, and it's conceivable they whiffed on the other car. However, several other seemingly less suspicious cars were reported by the media, and sought after by law enforcement. Not once did law enforcement make a media plea for a car that was in the driveway that day. In my opinion, they never issued a plea for a car in the driveway that night either. Only after Kevin came forward in 2009 did LE acknowledge they had been looking for a car that was reportedly seen in the driveway that night.

It could well be that LE did not believe DR from the very beginning. It also could be that the media and LE bungled the claim of two cars from the beginning. But, the information available to us diminishes the likelihood of that possibility.

One other comment regarding the tracks by the house. DR claims concern over investigators contaminating tracks 6 days after the abduction. Yet, he had no problem contaminating them the very next morning after the abduction. He seems to contradict himself frequently. Just MO.

 

[Ifollowthis]

I think it is more accurate to say that since 2010 he has insisted that he has said since day one there was more than one suspicious car in his driveway that day. Keep in mind also that the car that DR saw that was reported on, was not Kevin. So, by extension, that means DRs story, if true, means there were three suspicious cars that day, all of which turned around in the same spot.

I understand the media can overlook things, and it's conceivable they whiffed on the other car. However, several other seemingly less suspicious cars were reported by the media, and sought after by law enforcement. Not once did law enforcement make a media plea for a car that was in the driveway that day. In my opinion, they never issued a plea for a car in the driveway that night either. Only after Kevin came forward in 2009 did LE acknowledge they had been looking for a car that was reportedly seen in the driveway that night.

It could well be that LE did not believe DR from the very beginning. It also could be that the media and LE bungled the claim of two cars from the beginning. But, the information available to us diminishes the likelihood of that possibility.

One other comment regarding the tracks by the house. DR claims concern over investigators contaminating tracks 6 days after the abduction. Yet, he had no problem contaminating them the very next morning after the abduction. He seems to contradict himself frequently. Just MO.

What kind of car did Kevin have? I must not have been close in kind to the small blue with a man and smaller person?

 

[ELOCsoul]

What kind of car did Kevin have? I must not have been close in kind to the small blue with a man and smaller person?

According to Joy`s blog, he said it was his girlfriend's car, and was a silver or tan Grand Prix, mid sized car.

 

[ThePhantom]

Please forgive me if you have already engaged in this discussion. I went back through the thread but it was late at night. Did you read the article talking about Stearns County sheriff investigating the possibility of whether Delbert and Tim Huber of Paynesville might have been involved in Jacob's abduction?

 

[Ifollowthis]

Please forgive me if you have already engaged in this discussion. I went back through the thread but it was late at night. Did you read the article talking about Stearns County sheriff investigating the possibility of whether Delbert and Tim Huber of Paynesville might have been involved in Jacob's abduction?

Yes it was several days of discussion.

 

[ThePhantom]

Much obliged. I'll go back and read.

 

[FindTim]

And I thank you for bringing that up. It's just another case of how inept LE was that night. They never once told DR not to drive on his own driveway. For all he knew, a boy was taken on the road in front of his driveway. He was never told not to drive down his own driveway. In fact, he was never told anything other than a kid was missing from the night before. For all he knew, the kid was located and life went on.

So tell me, why shouldn't he have driven on his own driveway? He was NEVER advised not to, and had NO IDEA he would be contaminating the evidence.

One other comment regarding the tracks by the house. DR claims concern over investigators contaminating tracks 6 days after the abduction. Yet, he had no problem contaminating them the very next morning after the abduction. He seems to contradict himself frequently. Just MO.

 

[human]

And I thank you for bringing that up. It's just another case of how inept LE was that night. They never once told DR not to drive on his own driveway. For all he knew, a boy was taken on the road in front of his driveway. He was never told not to drive down his own driveway. In fact, he was never told anything other than a kid was missing from the night before. For all he knew, the kid was located and life went on.

So tell me, why shouldn't he have driven on his own driveway? He was NEVER advised not to, and had NO IDEA he would be contaminating the evidence.

Do you have a link to show that DR was not told about driving on his driveway?

The helicopter flew for hours. He was not concerned or interested in what happened?

 

[Pensfan]

<modsnip> LE waited until 2009 to name DR POI, that should be pretty telling as to what they know. We don't know even half of what they know, just remember that.

IMO LE didn't wait to name Dan a POI. At this time, LE found something new which strongly implicated Dan.

Homeland Security allows the owners/operators of critical infrastructure and state law enforcement officials to access sensitive, but unclasssified info, using their National Communications Integration Center. (Yes, they can become involved in missing children cases/human trafficking.) IMO local LE accessed or was given info from other LE agencies on Dan which was obtained from the Internet or elsewhere. Whatever LE found convinced a judge to sign a new search warrants for Dan&#8217;s home.

 

[shergal]

And I thank you for bringing that up. It's just another case of how inept LE was that night. They never once told DR not to drive on his own driveway. For all he knew, a boy was taken on the road in front of his driveway. He was never told not to drive down his own driveway. In fact, he was never told anything other than a kid was missing from the night before. For all he knew, the kid was located and life went on.

So tell me, why shouldn't he have driven on his own driveway? He was NEVER advised not to, and had NO IDEA he would be contaminating the evidence.

I don't the objection was to him driving down his own driveway, it was to him stopping at the crime scene tape, getting out of his car, LIFTING the crime scene tape and walking under it onto the crime scene. IMO, an intelligent teacher certainly would have known to go around to the grass to ask LE, and not walk across what was taped off.

 

[shergal]

I thought maybe I found that other guy who had attempted an abduction in St. Joe a couple months before Jacob was abducted..(not the attempt where the boy slipped out of his jacket and ran, but the one where a guy in a tan van with white rusted trim tried to grab a young boy in St. Joe in the summer of 1989) ...but I'm not sure if he was in prison or out on parole in 1989. (I don't think this guy had anything to do with Jacob or Jared, but I thought he may have been the guy who was attempting all those other abductions of young boys and girls around St. Joe in the summer of 1989 that were reported in the local papers.)

This guy fits so well, looks-wise, same glasses, similar facial shape and hair. Funny shaped eyes. But I think he may have been in prision in 1989, unless he was out on parole for a while.

He appears to have been a severe alcoholic (like several suspects we've looked at) and he killed someone while drunk and doesn't even recall it. Or so he says.

Here's the pic comparison of the suspect from 1989 and the guy I found (while looking through the Reker sisters info):

http://www.deadzoom.com/member/samiping/suspect2copy.jpg

His name is Michael Bartowsheski.

Here's some info on him. And if he WAS in prison, maybe we need to find out who this "Mr. X" is they are talking about in these articles.

Michael J. Bartowsheski, St. Cloud, Minn (He was 21 in 1979 when this mugshot was taken, he would have been 31 in 1989.)

http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Colorado/Arapahoe-County-CO/Michael-J-Bartowsheski.4354132.html

He had an appeal in 1983. I don't understand the legalese below, maybe someone can help with that, to figure out if Bartowsheski ever was re-sentenced, or paroled, and was thus out of prison in 1989?

This seems to be the courts summary here on the appeal:

"The trial court should give as much effect to the jury's resolution of the issues submitted to it as can be done without running afoul of the defendant's constitutional and statutory rights. Because the jury found the defendant guilty of both first degree murder based upon the defendant's killing of Michelle Talbott after deliberation and the separate crime of robbery, and because these crimes do not relate to each other in a manner that precludes the entry of separate judgments of conviction on both offenses, the trial court should enter judgments of conviction on these two crimes and resentence the defendant accordingly.
The judgments of conviction and sentences imposed thereon are vacated and the cause is remanded for further proceedings consistent with the views herein expressed."

http://www.leagle.com/decision/1983896661P2d235_1896.xml/PEOPLE v. BARTOWSHESKI



In this KARE11 article, they say Bartowsheski was "still" in prison in Colorado in 2005. (So if he never got out in between those dates, it can't be him. But I can't find what happened on his re-sentencing from that appeal in 1983. His original sentence was life WITH parole.) And they mention Mr. X in the link below also.

"Another man they find every bit as interesting is now out of prison, having already served time for another crime against another Minnesota teenager. When we showed up at his home to try to talk with him and he ordered us off his property in no uncertain terms. We&#8217;re not naming this Mr. X because he's not charged in the Reker case."
http://archive.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=111096

Some info on Bartowsheski here also:
http://open.salon.com/blog/laura_wi...ders_of_mary_and_susanne_reker_minnesota_1974

So, he was mostly cutting up and killing young girls when he was drunk. But he looks so much like that suspect sketch pictured above from the attempted abduction, I thought maybe he had tried abducting young boys or girls also.

 

[ELOCsoul]

IMO LE didn't wait to name Dan a POI. At this time, LE found something new which strongly implicated Dan.

Homeland Security allows the owners/operators of critical infrastructure and state law enforcement officials to access sensitive, but unclasssified info, using their National Communications Integration Center. (Yes, they can become involved in missing children cases/human trafficking.) IMO local LE accessed or was given info from other LE agencies on Dan which was obtained from the Internet or elsewhere. Whatever LE found convinced a judge to sign a new search warrants for Dan’s home.

Do you know if they took DR's computer, or did they just look at it? If they took it, I think it's pretty telling if they did not return it to him after all this time.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Do you know if they took DR's computer, or did they just look at it? If they took it, I think it's pretty telling if they did not return it to him after all this time.

Well said.

 

[Sasquatch321]

I don't the objection was to him driving down his own driveway, it was to him stopping at the crime scene tape, getting out of his car, LIFTING the crime scene tape and walking under it onto the crime scene. IMO, an intelligent teacher certainly would have known to go around to the grass to ask LE, and not walk across what was taped off.

He pulled a quarterback move to get past police the next morning. Its almost telling that jacob was hidden in the trunk at that time, and either still alive or dead.

 

[cGorg]

I believe that Jacob's last footprint could have been planted in the wee hours of the morning after law enforcement went home. DR comes out with Jacob's sneakers and leans across Kevin's track and plants it perfectly to appear as if stepping in to a car. I believe he was also able to erase other prints at that time as well which explains why there appear to be so few.

Has anybody seen a perp footprint?

Do you really think that Jacob's last footprint was planted? Really? Jacob left a trail of footprints culminating in one last footprint....why would the perp plant one last footprint when there is a trail already(which is perplexing enough)? So the perp thought: I'd better go back to the scene, plant a footprint that exhibited an upward motion that creates the appearance that Jacob is stepping up into a vehicle. And while I'm at it....I think I'll mosey around the driveway and 'erase' other print evidence. This really isn't plausible if you just think about the logisitics of it. I believe that the picture of Jacob's last footprint is HIS footprint and was created by HIM-whatever that print means. I consider this picture of his print to be factual evidence of his last known existence and NOT a fabrication by others to mislead investigators. Can we on WS agree that Jacob's last footprint is a FACT and not a hypothetical?

 

[cGorg]

And I thank you for bringing that up. It's just another case of how inept LE was that night. They never once told DR not to drive on his own driveway. For all he knew, a boy was taken on the road in front of his driveway. He was never told not to drive down his own driveway. In fact, he was never told anything other than a kid was missing from the night before. For all he knew, the kid was located and life went on.

So tell me, why shouldn't he have driven on his own driveway? He was NEVER advised not to, and had NO IDEA he would be contaminating the evidence.

DR saw 2 cars: 1 in the afternoon driving crazily, and the 2nd near the time of the abduction. Both cars turned around in his driveway(according to DR). The first car by DR's statement(paraphrasing): "you have your kidnapper", the 2nd car he says may have had a woman or small child in the front passenger's seat and was a smaller, darker car with headlights close together. I would think that this info would be important to transmit asap as the tire tracks would be fresh if visible. However, I understand your point that as a civilian and layperson, one would normally expect that LE would be investigating this info immediately...but still...walking + driving over the possible driveway evidence that may lead to the culprit does give me pause.