MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #4

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hoppyfrog

hoppyfrog

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Dear Posters:

Ya'll have been doing much better about following the Terms of Service (TOS) here at WS. Thank you!

A couple of reminders here for the new members:

1. Read--yes, actually READ--and follow the TOS.

2. The TOS includes not "inviting," which means that on the forum you do not ask others to PM your or tell someone that you are going to PM him/her. PMing is allowed, we just don't discuss it on the forum.

3. Also do NOT post or post links that include personal information about innocent parties--including minors--involved in a case. Personal information includes telephone numbers, addresses, dates of birth, etc.

An idea: so many of you are *fantastic* sleuthers/researchers. If you want a challenge and want to put your skills to truly excellent use, go over to the Unidentified forum sometime and work on some of the cases there. I mean this seriously. They could really use your help.

Now I'll shut up.

Please continue your discussion here.

Hoppy
 
Pulling this over from the other thread, in case it ends up being related to this case. Bill Currie article stating he had worked with "at-risk" kids.


http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/27/news_local/065local15currieremembered09.txt

“Bill had the ability to sort through things and make a lot of sense out of it, sometimes, when other people couldn’t,” Pemberton recalled.

Currie moved to Mid-Missouri in the early 1990s and became a substitute teacher, then worked with at-risk students as a home-school communicator."
 
One of the posts on the last thread mentioned why the media will not publish the 15 year old girl's name. It's true that it is not illegal for them to publish it. It's also true that the media won't publish it because they can't get LE to corroborate it.

I'm also sure that the media knows if they go ahead and publish it they can bet that LE will suddenly become very uncooperative with the media, and the media doesn't want to risk that.

MOO

Hoppy

(Wait! Did I just hear a frog say "moo"?)
 
hoppyfrog said:
One of the posts on the last thread mentioned why the media will not publish the 15 year old girl's name. It's true that it is not illegal for them to publish it. It's also true that the media won't publish it because they can't get LE to corroborate it.

I'm also sure that the media knows if they go ahead and publish it they can bet that LE will suddenly become very uncooperative with the media, and the media doesn't want to risk that.

MOO

Hoppy

(Wait! Did I just hear a frog say "moo"?)
Click to expand...

YouTube - Frog with an Identity Crisis
 
"I'm also sure that the media knows if they go ahead and publish it they can bet that LE will suddenly become very uncooperative with the media, and the media doesn't want to risk that."

Because they're currently getting *so* much information from LE. What a huge risk!

(Not disagreeing with you, just frustrated)
 
Exactly, if the media publishes it from sleuthing LE/the prosecutor/the defense will move to have every record sealed and the media will get nothing instead of some things minus a name.
 
Since some were questioning the Twilight refernece it made me think about things. I am tossing in my $00.2 worth in here. Many films today glamorize death and murder. I am having a hard time thinking of a way to explain it but I will try.

Natural Born Killers- The murders were done for love and lust. When you watch this movie you feel for Mickey and Mallory. You want their love to be allowed and want them to be together in the end. The viewer feels that the world is trying to keep them apart and they have to kill the enemies of them and their love. The evil within them is romanticized.

Twilight, Interview with a Vampire, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Lost Boys and many others- They glamorize death as being cool. A way to have never ending love. I like to call them Glampires. In Bram Stoker's, Dracula the viewer roots for Dracula and Mina to be together. Jonathan Parker and Van Helsing are the bad guys for trying to stop it. Twilight again you feel for Edward and Bella. In the Lost Boys the vampires are the cool guys while the vampire hunters are geeky losers. Interview with a Vampire had the viewers feeling sympathy for the vampires and misunderstood. The movies takes the evil nature out of monsters and turns it into handicap to be overcome.

I can see how some people who are already mentally unstable can not relate what reality is. Especially younger people who have not had any experience with death in their lives. They just don't comprehend how death is final.

An example of this is young kids and how they see things. They see actors playing a part on TV then they see them playing a different role. My nephews who are 10 are beginning to understand the idea that TV is not real. They see Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones and then see him as Hans Solo. Even my four year old niece questions Miranda Cosgrove as ICarly and as Megan on Drake and Josh. We explain it but they ask again the next time. To stretch it further someone sees an actor get killed in a show then next week they are on another show alive and kicking. Most of us understand this as we get older but put mental and emotional issues in the mix and who knows what is going on in their minds.

I do feel that society is quick to blame movies, music and video games for violence but I wonder if all of it combined isn't desensitizing us. There was murder and violence before all the media was available. Many argue that there has been an increase of violence but I wonder if it just seems that way because there are more people. Or that we just hear about it more today because of the 24 hour news, Internet and much more technology for info to get out to us.

I am not saying that this is what went on in the perp's mind. I just am trying to understand what would makes someone to do something this horrible. I am having a hard time with understanding wanting to know what it felt like. How does one even think about that as a desire. I can't stand the feeling of squashing a bug and can't even imagine wanting to experience anything beyond that.

I hope that the professionals can learn from this so that WE (society) can intervene and prevent something like this happening again. This case is just so different than what is we have seen that I think there is much to be learned. I sure hope that this is not a start of what is to come.
 
What exactly have they released that is meaningful? We have no suspect, no cause or time of death, no motive, nothing. All they have released is that a 15 year old is in custody and that she led them to the body. That's IT. You might feel like we know alot, but it's not because LE released any of that information.
 
I **THINK** LE did say that she was killed about the same time that the phone call to 911 came in. I looked and can't find the statement on KRCG though. Which there are a million links about this case so not suprising I couldn't find the exact one. Maybe someone else will remember seeing this and where!?!

If this is true then the TOD would be about 7:00pm
 
Hoppy, I have worked in the Unidentified forum a few times and you are right, it is amazing there. I'll be back - I will!
 
cornfed_hick said:
YouTube - Frog with an Identity Crisis
Click to expand...

laughing-smiley.gif
laughing-smiley.gif
laughing-smiley.gif


I can NOT believe you found that! :woohoo:
 
MDATCA said:
Since some were questioning the Twilight refernece it made me think about things. I am tossing in my $00.2 worth in here. Many films today glamorize death and murder. I am having a hard time thinking of a way to explain it but I will try.

Natural Born Killers- The murders were done for love and lust. When you watch this movie you feel for Mickey and Mallory. You want their love to be allowed and want them to be together in the end. The viewer feels that the world is trying to keep them apart and they have to kill the enemies of them and their love. The evil within them is romanticized.

Twilight, Interview with a Vampire, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Lost Boys and many others- They glamorize death as being cool. A way to have never ending love. I like to call them Glampires. In Bram Stoker's, Dracula the viewer roots for Dracula and Mina to be together. Jonathan Parker and Van Helsing are the bad guys for trying to stop it. Twilight again you feel for Edward and Bella. In the Lost Boys the vampires are the cool guys while the vampire hunters are geeky losers. Interview with a Vampire had the viewers feeling sympathy for the vampires and misunderstood. The movies takes the evil nature out of monsters and turns it into handicap to be overcome.

I can see how some people who are already mentally unstable can not relate what reality is. Especially younger people who have not had any experience with death in their lives. They just don't comprehend how death is final.

An example of this is young kids and how they see things. They see actors playing a part on TV then they see them playing a different role. My nephews who are 10 are beginning to understand the idea that TV is not real. They see Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones and then see him as Hans Solo. Even my four year old niece questions Miranda Cosgrove as ICarly and as Megan on Drake and Josh. We explain it but they ask again the next time. To stretch it further someone sees an actor get killed in a show then next week they are on another show alive and kicking. Most of us understand this as we get older but put mental and emotional issues in the mix and who knows what is going on in their minds.

I do feel that society is quick to blame movies, music and video games for violence but I wonder if all of it combined isn't desensitizing us. There was murder and violence before all the media was available. Many argue that there has been an increase of violence but I wonder if it just seems that way because there are more people. Or that we just hear about it more today because of the 24 hour news, Internet and much more technology for info to get out to us.

I am not saying that this is what went on in the perp's mind. I just am trying to understand what would makes someone to do something this horrible. I am having a hard time with understanding wanting to know what it felt like. How does one even think about that as a desire. I can't stand the feeling of squashing a bug and can't even imagine wanting to experience anything beyond that.

I hope that the professionals can learn from this so that WE (society) can intervene and prevent something like this happening again. This case is just so different than what is we have seen that I think there is much to be learned. I sure hope that this is not a start of what is to come.
Click to expand...

BBM

I believe the bolded part is totally true and I've believed this for a long long time. When I was growing up, I didn't know about all this evil crap and I am glad I didn't. This is strongly MOO.
 
elizabeth20olten.jpg


I love this pic of Elizabeth, taken from Amanda's album she made for us! She was sooooooo pretty and sooooooooooo young.

Rest in peace, precious little girl!!!
 
How are y'all finding quotes from her friends on My Space? I am in awe of your sleuthing skills. I found AB's My Space page and googled her user name and came up with some hits and then browsed the friends' pages, but didn't find anything. Are you allowed to say how you are finding this stuff?
 
Raebie I know you're frustrated, but I think right now LE has to be very careful what they release. They want to make sure they get her charged as an adult. Her lawyer is already saying the media speculation is unfair, and she won't be able to get a fair trial. If the judge is on the fence about juvenile/adult charges, he'd probably lean towards juvenile if he has concern about a fair trial. LE wants to be able to say "see, we're playing by the rules, we know how to be quiet" to prove an adult trial - where things are public record - wouldn't be a circus.
 
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