MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #14

[reedus23]

Coming into the discussion late, so not even sure how it became an issue or why it is, but I will say I think it's not even feasible that everyone in a department reside in that city. Some of these cities are just not that large. While I certainly get the concept or thought that officers being a member of the community would help stop the "us versus them" mentality, I just don't know that it is feasible, regardless of the any danger/risks/threats from living in that community.

I had given some thoughts way earlier in the threads that what I do think needs to be done more, is the officers need to be involved with the community more. More than DARE talks to kids where they show up in uniform. I'm talking about community events where they show up in plain clothes and interact with the community to show the community they are human beings, not just some object in a uniform. Develop relationships with the community so they know you are not there just to issue as many tickets and make as many arrests as possible. Show them that you are there to serve them, not just arrest them. There are obviously a ton of things that can and need to be done from the community end as well, starting with the adults taking more of a role in the young people's lives and not turning a blind eye to inappropriate behavior. But I think there are things the department can do to eliminate the "us versus them" mentality without actually living in the city in question.

 

[katydid23]

This is an issue, but with all respect, it was the international Anonymous internet hacking group that put these pics and info out, not the local residents or locals with vendettas against LE as far as we know.

Last night on the Ferguson live stream, it was the protestors that were mobbing McCullochs front yard. And weeks ago it was the protestors who physically went to Wilsons home. All they saw was a lawnmower ob the front lawn apparently.

 

[CHERIE.T]

released by the Ferguson Police Dept. Names of the store Manager and witness/911 caller and other store employee were blacked out pursuant to Sunshine law exceptions, but the narrative clearly describes their statements to police confirming that the robbery occurred:



The offense noted in the Report is:



The Manager is noted as:



There are still photos of the robbery and Michael Brown and Darian Johnson are fully described by age, race, height & weight, birthdate, SSN and noted as "suspects identified".

So, to me, this just doesn't seem like an ambiguous situation. Whether or not the actual crime victim initially called 911 is completely irrelevant. Anyone observing a crime can report it-it's not like only crimes reported by certain victims get investigated. I really don't get where all this questioning of the robbery comes from. We have a police report with eyewitness descriptions, video and still pictures, admissions by Darian Johnson and, yet, it's still being questioned. It feels like there is no longer any reality, no matter how apparent, that can be agreed upon any more....

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/national/ferguson-police-department-incident-report-on-aug-9-robbery/1256/

THANK YOU BTM :thewave:

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Mike Brown Shooter: Anonymous Hackers Threaten Ferguson, Missouri, Police If Demands Aren't Met

Perhaps most disturbing were links to pictures of a young man who Anonymous claimed was Belmar’s son sleeping on a couch. Another showed his wife and daughter arm-in-arm and, even more, they threatened to release his daughter’s name if the name of the officer who shot Brown was not made public before eventually backing off.


http://www.ibtimes.com/mike-brown-s...uson-missouri-police-if-demands-arent-1657702

This is why the majority of LE with families lives outside the city limits. Wives of police officers are always, always on alert regarding their children. It is real and it is always a potential threat when there is a shooting. No sane officer wants to put his family in this position but it does happen.

And even more scary is that the International hacker group named above at first got the officer's name wrong. Then when they got his name right, they got his address wrong (the officer had lived at that residence 9 years prior).
So that's scary stuff because it could put people's lives in jeopardy that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[EvilSoup]

OTOH, if some community minded LEOs were living amongst the residents in a crime-ridden area, don't you think they might have a positive influence? I think some of the "us vs. them" mentality in policing AND in some communities needs to be dealt with. I also don't think that we should relegate and segregate people to live in *****holes based on their race or their income level. Mixed income, diverse communities seem to have far less problems withe crime. Maybe that's just me.

According to the FOP doc I linked earlier, it used to be a condition of employment in most police forces, because of the importance of "community" and having a vested interest in it.

Since then, many municipalities no longer make residency a requirement, stating it would be like a supermarket employee being contractually obligated to shop only at that supermarket.

There was a lot more really interesting info about the debate and policies concerning residency.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Last night on the Ferguson live stream, it was the protestors that were mobbing McCullochs front yard. And weeks ago it was the protestors who physically went to Wilsons home. All they saw was a lawnmower ob the front lawn apparently.

If there is no wanted result from the GJ or trial (if there is one) I highly, sadly suspect the lives of McCulloch and OW will be in great danger. IMHOO

 

[William N]

So, they DROVE up blind. Was there any reason they couldn't have locked the doors and closed the window, IF he was advancing on them, two of them no less, with a knife. Did they really have to shoot him the way they did?

Hell, even if I was a woman alone, and this young man had a knife, I wouldn't have thought he could kill me by cutting through my windshield. Maybe I'm a realist, or have my cajones than some, who knows.

Hell, they were TWO police office, in a car. He was one sad young man supposedly with a knife. What bravery it must have taken to blast him away.

I am very torn by this whole Ferguson thingee. I have lots of black friends who are dancing and screaming for the blood of OW, and they have NO idea why. They are like the one who didn't know you have to elect elected officials. There is a big social gap here.

In my opinion, of course

A question if I may.

Would your black friends have been "screaming for blood" if MB had killed OW? Or, would your black friends have been "screaming for blood" if the police officer who shot MB had been black?

I can't count the times I've read that the black community is "screaming for blood." I've noticed this never (and I mean never) happens in this fashion when a totally innocent black person is murdered by a black gangbanger type.

 

[reedus23]

I have seen various transcriptions of what was heard from the witness on the video at the scene shortly after the shooting. I guess that is the "Black Canseco" witness. Has there been any "official" version of what is heard? I'm going to assume not at this point, so is there an generally accepted version of what was said? TIA

 

[EvilSoup]

I know you are new EvilSoup so l will try and explain as best I can. If a link has a video and you can see with your own eyes that the officers are not sitting in their car when they fire their weapons and you argue that they were not outside the car, it would appear you are baiting. In other words, you are just trying to get a rise out of posters. This is not permitted. So if facts are presented and we know they are facts, such as laws for example, you can state your opinion that you don't agree with the law but that cannot change what the facts are so pretty much it is your opinion. If you keep arguing when posters make the point that it's the law and the officer was abiding by that law, then you are engaging in a circular argument. This means you are arguing just to argue. This is not well received either. Hope that is clear to all who might have questions regarding this. If you have a link that supports your opinion that is not from a political site then you can discuss that.

I was talking about the page being shut down. I did not link to the site that talks about MB supporters shutting it down, but just mentioned I got it from a conservative blog. Your comment came right after that post, so I thought it was concerning that post. To which I responded.

As for the other post, the police did drive up to the scene. If I said otherwise, I will go edit. Sorry.

 

[reedus23]

If there is no wanted result from the GJ or trial (if there is one) I highly, sadly suspect the lives of McCulloch and OW will be in great danger. IMHOO

McCulloch's life is not going to be in danger. IMHOO as well. If it is, I feel confident it won't be from people that live locally. IMHOO yet again. OW may be a different story. He's obviously done in Ferguson. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if he's done in St. Louis County. The best thing that could happen to him is for a department in another state that has already taken up his cause to offer him a job. Give him a fresh start in a fresh place. Everything said is just MHOO.

 

[katydid23]

But shooting a suspect to death is not universally the only way to accomplish this goal.

Of course not. But I really think we need to look at these tragic incidents in full context. Let's say that you had a job where a small percentage of your 'clients' wanted to KILL you. Literally. But you were still expected to be out and about serving your clients needs. All the while knowing that one or more of them may SUDDENLY and WITHOUT WARNING turn on you with a deadly weapon. 24/7 you must deal with this knowledge. And you also have to be aware of your drive home, to make sure no one is following you to find out where you live.

So when we speak about ONE particular incident, where a mentally deranged perp is holding a knife and shouting KILL ME, the cops have been readying themselves for such incidents for years. And they go into automatic training and protocol mode. THEY WANT TO STAY ALIVE. That is their main goal. They do not want to kill anyone, but their number one goal is to stay safe and go home to their own families that night.

Maybe they were too quick to shoot. I am not sure. But I do know that they have the right to defend themselves and they have to act with decisiveness and certainty when met with an armed suspect, if they want to stay alive themselves. If someone was standing in front of me with a knife and yelling SHOOT ME, and continued to yell at me, I would shoot them before i thought to taser them or call in a negotiator. jmo:cow:

 

[UdbCrzy2]

McCulloch's life is not going to be in danger. IMHOO as well. If it is, I feel confident it won't be from people that live locally. IMHOO yet again. OW may be a different story. He's obviously done in Ferguson. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if he's done in St. Louis County. The best thing that could happen to him is for a department in another state that has already taken up his cause to offer him a job. Give him a fresh start in a fresh place. Everything said is just MHOO.

Either that or find a new profession. Go to school with donated money, become an RN and stay safe.

 

[katydid23]

McCulloch's life is not going to be in danger. IMHOO as well. If it is, I feel confident it won't be from people that live locally. IMHOO yet again. OW may be a different story. He's obviously done in Ferguson. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if he's done in St. Louis County. The best thing that could happen to him is for a department in another state that has already taken up his cause to offer him a job. Give him a fresh start in a fresh place. Everything said is just MHOO.

I doubt he will ever want to be a street cop gain. jmo

 

[reedus23]

Either that or find a new profession. Go to school with donated money, become an RN and stay safe.

Might be an even better idea, as long as it's no where near north county.

 

[SwampMama]

Odd....a fund for a certain officer was closed yesterday, short of the goal. No message posted as to why.

I have a feeling said officer is having psychological problems about the loss of life. I can't think of any other reasons.

BBM. Let me speak of my experience with this. Someone very near and dear to me went thru an experience where they had to shoot someone to save their own life and protect other. It was in the course of their job. Completely justified, no doubts about it, they were being shot at by the person. (It was all documented, investigated, held hearings, etc). My loved one was not facing any acrimony from the public over it, nor was it widely known or publicized in any way. It remained a private issue that I knew of (and his family, co workers and close friends). I lived intimately with this person, was the closest person on earth to them day in and day out, sleeping next to them, watching them struggle with the emotions over what had happened and they to come to terms with it.

He was devastated by it. Nevermind that it was completely justified, that he saved lives, that no one blamed him - but still felt he had taken a life and it haunted him. He had nightmares about it and I cannot even begin to tell you how it completely devastated him emotionally. Most people have NO idea of what the officer is going thru and then on top of it he has to do with a world of ignorant haters heaping judgement and threats on him. If he is going thru 1/100th of what my loved one went thru then my heart breaks for him.

So THIS is where i come from with a lot of my feelings about this officer. I know the realities of what the officer could be emotionally dealing with. To this day i am still affected by what I witnessed my loved one go thru. I hope the officer has a solid wall of support around him.

 

[bwt42]

Mike Brown Shooter: Anonymous Hackers Threaten Ferguson, Missouri, Police If Demands Aren't Met

Perhaps most disturbing were links to pictures of a young man who Anonymous claimed was Belmar’s son sleeping on a couch. Another showed his wife and daughter arm-in-arm and, even more, they threatened to release his daughter’s name if the name of the officer who shot Brown was not made public before eventually backing off.


http://www.ibtimes.com/mike-brown-s...uson-missouri-police-if-demands-arent-1657702

This is why the majority of LE with families lives outside the city limits. Wives of police officers are always, always on alert regarding their children. It is real and it is always a potential threat when there is a shooting. No sane officer wants to put his family in this position but it does happen.

An interesting observation. I grew up in Gary Indiana in the late 50's & early 60's. A tough steel mill town. The toughest would never think of assaulting a cop. Today I live in mostly white suburbia. Read in the paper often about girls arrested for assaulting an officer. I guess we could argue if its the cops fault or not.

 

[Lovejac]

I have seen various transcriptions of what was heard from the witness on the video at the scene shortly after the shooting. I guess that is the "Black Canseco" witness. Has there been any "official" version of what is heard? I'm going to assume not at this point, so is there an generally accepted version of what was said? TIA

I can only answer for myself. Out of all of the videos I've seen and heard, I give this witness the most weight because to me it appears he has no hidden agenda, he hasn't run to the media, etc. He seems to be a bystander just talking about what he saw.

As for his version being generally accepted, I can't answer that. But I have seen other posters that expressed the same thoughts.

 

[katydid23]

According to the FOP doc I linked earlier, it used to be a condition of employment in most police forces, because of the importance of "community" and having a vested interest in it.

Since then, many municipalities no longer make residency a requirement, stating it would be like a supermarket employee being contractually obligated to shop only at that supermarket.

There was a lot more really interesting info about the debate and policies concerning residency.

In Los Angeles, after the RAMPARTS provisions, which tried to rehabilitate a controversial police division, the commission tried giving financial incentives to those officers that would agree to live in South Central LA and the surrounding communities. Many tried it out but it did not work well for those with families. I am not sure if they still offer financial compensation.


ETA:
http://www.policemag.com/channel/pa...-lapd-officers-don-t-live-in-los-angeles.aspx



More than two-thirds of people who work for the city of Los Angeles live somewhere else, a Los Angeles Times analysis suggests. Out-of-towners are especially common among those charged with keeping Angelenos safe from crime and fire. Only 21% of Police Department employees live in Los Angeles, and 16% of Fire Department workers call the city home, according to the analysis of city data showing where workers receive their paychecks, reports the L.A. Times.

Experts say the high numbers point to forces that continue to push people out of the city, including pricey housing and poor impressions of the public schools. Workers who make more money are much more likely to live in Los Angeles than those with lower incomes, the analysis shows. Nearly 48% of the highest-paid employees live in the city, compared with 20% of the lowest-paid.

 

[bwt42]

But we can paraphrase and acknowledge that it is opinion or rumor and not fact, right? (I hope I am getting the hang of it now!)

Please do not give me a link!

 

[LambChop]

Black Canseco witness:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/excited-utterance


An exclamation made at the moment of an accident or other unexpected and disturbing event, considered under the rules of evidence to be likely to be truthful because of the urgency of the surrounding circumstances and, therefore, an exception to the hearsay rule