MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #14

[TheDuchess]

Do we have any witnesses that say, with certainty, that MB's hand's were NOT up? Serious question. Brady doesn't say he never had them up, just says he didn't see that. I'm going to guess not since we haven't heard from DW. I suppose it is up to each individual to simply discard eye witness testimony even if there is no eye witness testimony to the contrary.

Myself, I don't discount it but will wait and weight it against all of the evidence. I mean, for all we know, DW's version will be that MB stopped, turned, put his hands up and then charged him. In that event, all of the eye witnesses that have been discounted were, in fact accurate.

Only point is, while it's one thing to come to a conclusion based off of what is known, we (or at least I) will remain flexible enough to reach a different conclusion when we actually know more.

BBM-I have always believed that MBs hands WERE up - at one point. I have always pictured it kind of like the radio caller said. MB with his hands in the air taunting OW and then going at him, followed by a quick realization that he hadn't been fatally injured and so went again (i.e. the pause in the audio.)

Just my thoughts.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I may have missed it, but were there any swisher sweets laying out in the street?

 

[Dana]

Do we have any witnesses that say, with certainty, that MB's hand's were NOT up? Serious question. Brady doesn't say he never had them up, just says he didn't see that. I'm going to guess not since we haven't heard from DW. I suppose it is up to each individual to simply discard eye witness testimony even if there is no eye witness testimony to the contrary.

Myself, I don't discount it but will wait and weight it against all of the evidence. I mean, for all we know, DW's version will be that MB stopped, turned, put his hands up and then charged him. In that event, all of the eye witnesses that have been discounted were, in fact accurate.

Only point is, while it's one thing to come to a conclusion based off of what is known, we (or at least I) will remain flexible enough to reach a different conclusion when we actually know more.

TY
I did state that MBrady missed a portion of what happened. I stated what MBrady said in the interview. I am well aware of your stance of waiting until all the facts and evidence are in before forming any opinions, since I've seen you post this so many times already. If we all felt that way, and since there are so few facts about this case, why are any of us here? I like reading different opinions and thoughts on a subject with or without facts ....sorry.

*note* if I put a word in caps, it may mean that there is a difference in wording between witnesses, whether I believe or not this statement is true. Yes, I give 'some' weight to Brady's account, as I stated in my earlier post, because of his location to the shooting as opposed to DJ hiding behind a car.

 

[DebinGA]

BBM - FWIW MB's mother was with them as well and that man in the green that has been running around with the NBPs organizing protests was there with them as well.

Green shirt guy has been identified as Anthony Shadid, a Nation of Islam promoter. One of the saddest revelations for me during this saga is the near absence of black Christian clergy. Have black Christian leaders lost their former influence within black communities, leaving a vacuum now filled by racist hate mongers?

 

[jmcgladr]

Green shirt guy has been identified as Anthony Shadid, a Nation of Islam promoter. One of the saddest revelations for me during this saga is the near absence of black Christian clergy. Have black Christian leaders lost their former influence within black communities, leaving a vacuum now filled by racist hate mongers?

Seemed to me there were a large number of black Christian clergy speaking at MB's funeral.

 

[CHERIE.T]

for those unable to read this entire thread:

released by the ferguson police dept. Names of the store manager and witness/911 caller and other store employee were blacked out pursuant to sunshine law exceptions, but the narrative clearly describes their statements to police confirming that the robbery occurred:



The offense noted in the report is:



The manager is noted as:



There are still photos of the robbery and michael brown and darian johnson are fully described by age, race, height & weight, birthdate, ssn and noted as "suspects identified".

So, to me, this just doesn't seem like an ambiguous situation. Whether or not the actual crime victim initially called 911 is completely irrelevant. Anyone observing a crime can report it-it's not like only crimes reported by certain victims get investigated. I really don't get where all this questioning of the robbery comes from. We have a police report with eyewitness descriptions, video and still pictures, admissions by darian johnson and, yet, it's still being questioned. It feels like there is no longer any reality, no matter how apparent, that can be agreed upon any more....

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/national/ferguson-police-department-incident-report-on-aug-9-robbery/1256/

 

[CHERIE.T]

Seemed to me there were a large number of black Christian clergy speaking at MB's funeral.

link? I read mention of Sharpton>>>>>>>>>>>> who'd I miss? TIA

 

[Frydaddy]

My job for over 30 years was teaching children who lived below the poverty level.

The last few years I worked with the homeless which included women from the Domestic Violence Shelter.

I would go out in the community with them to provide educational opportunities and community connections until stable housing could be found.

I am so thankful for this is my life because there is no reason in the world that lives in trauma would have intersected my world.

I wish everyone could develop friendships with people whose lives have been a series of unfortunate experiences.

Many of the women came from alcoholic homes. I will not say 100% , but all I ever met that had drug addiction came from alcoholic homes.

Many of the women had become mothers at age 14 or 15 because they were sexual abuse victims.

Everyday I thank God that I was born in a good situation because that is what happened to me. I did not create loving parents who were able to work and provide a decent home and good schools.

It is merely accident of birth that I was not born under a freeway overpass.

God bless you human, regardless of ANY conversation here, I have mad respect for you!

 

[jmcgladr]

link? I read mention of Sharpton>>>>>>>>>>>> who'd I miss? TIA

Well there was MB's uncle, for starters - Pastor Charles Ewing. And Bishop Edwin Bass of the Church of God in Christ, who ran the funeral. Did you watch it? I admit I didn't watch the whole thing, but I saw the speeches of those 3 (including Sharpton) anyway.

<modsnip>

http://fox40.com/2014/08/25/michael-brown-funeral-speakers-urge-calm-response-call-for-justice/

 

[katydid23]

Yes, people are their own worst enemies. We are often hostages of our own minds.

People can overcome. It happens. But with so many odds against them, it is almost impossible even with help. Where I live, public transportation stops around 11 PM. The jobs people can get starting out often are overnight shifts at the grocery store, nursing home, hospital, cleaning and so on. Where does your child go overnight? And how do you get your child there and how do you get to work?

Many women had gone to those for profit schools which prepared them for a minimum wage job and gave them huge loans for the huge tuition they charge.

So now they had to try to pay those loans back on low wage jobs . They cannot go to school for additional training until they pay those loans back, which will be in 20-30'years.

Another sweet thing that happens is that they want love. So they fall for some loser's BS love story. He is a lying loser so he ends up doing something that gets the woman kicked out of govt housing. Once you are kicked out, you are kicked out for ten years.

Now the woman needs housing, but landlords don't want her. They do background checks here.

She now has to rent from a slum lord who charges huge money because he knows that these people have no options and will default soon. She cannot afford the rent so she has to start selling her body or drugs to survive.

Many women do not have families to fall back on for help. The families have their own crises.

Then there is the mental illness caused by who knows what. Is it the abuse they were raised with? Is it genetic?

Everyone has to choose what they will do, but the choice is a lot easier if you have a loving home, money, food, health, and hope.

How many people are there that came from huge wealth and squandered their lives?

The grandson of the founder of Bakelite , the first plastic, was gay. His mother did not like that so she had sex with him to try to get him to go straight. He eventually murdered her. The family of Pabst brewing. More tragedy. All opportunities, but mess up your life big time!

Especially Interesting especially because that is how Officer Wilson's childhood was. His mother was a felon, a con artist, a thief, who made his childhood intolerable. She dies when he was 16, and he bounced around in the system for awhile and in various relatives homes, couch surfing. So it is really sad, imo, that he is being scapegoated by the locals, as a white monster. jmo

 

[reedus23]

frydaddy, good to see you again.

I have had the chance to go back and re-read your thoughts on the witnesses. Of your comments, the ones that are most convincing arguments to me personally involve Crenshaw and her ability to see the events. The moving between windows, going to get her purse and the brick wall are all certainly things that make me raise an eye brow and would want flushed out. At first glance, without actually getting the chance to question her personally, yes, those things particularly would throw up a flag for me.

I certainly read your other points on those 2 posts and will never begrudge you your right to call their testimony into question for those reasons. For me, personally, the points above are the only ones that give me concern.

 

[Frydaddy]

Okay for those who just have to vent their political views, here is the elevator right to the basement.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?27-The-Political-Pavilion

I was told there was only a stairway down there...seems I am being manipulated here!

 

[katydid23]

Not able to watch videos right now. The article spends 90% of its time blasting some Dacia or Darcia like they're putting her on trial. Based on your bolded post and the headline on that gotnews thing, that there is a video that actually shows Dacia telling Crenshaw what to say? Assuming such a video exists, where she is actually telling Crenshaw what the sequence of events were that went down, that would be pretty significant.

Based on the blaring headline, I'm assuming the video says that Crenshaw never saw anything and was instructed on what to say and informed of what happened by this Dacia/Darcia gal?

There is an initial video, of an interview with Crenshaw, that is inconsistent with her later statements. But the intial interview was nearly wiped clean from the net. This article has a link to it.

 

[TheDuchess]

Wait...is anyone able to confirm this??? Tiffany Mitchell is Piaget Crenshaw's boss??? Am I late to the party here???

 

[reedus23]

There is an initial video, of an interview with Crenshaw, that is inconsistent with her later statements. But the intial interview was nearly wiped clean from the net. This article has a link to it.

Thanks katydid. So it's a matter of there is another interview Crenshaw gave and it is inconsistent with her later interviews? Just a matter of inconsistent versions, not to minimize it? I just can't watch the video right now and am trying to figure out if it's just a matter of 2 different statements being given, which to me is different than video evidence of a black panther literally "creating" a witness on video if that makes sense. I'm being about as clear as mud right now.

In other words, it's just Crenshaw giving another account to an intervewer. It is not a video of Dacia actually actively"creating" a witness with Crenshaw.

 

[reedus23]

There is an initial video, of an interview with Crenshaw, that is inconsistent with her later statements. But the intial interview was nearly wiped clean from the net. This article has a link to it.

And when home, I will definitely want to watch the other video for any inconsistent statements. I hadn't seen many inconsistencies in her prior tellings so this could be telling about her credibility.

 

[reedus23]

Wait...is anyone able to confirm this??? Tiffany Mitchell is Piaget Crenshaw's boss??? Am I late to the party here???

I believe that has always been said.

 

[Lovejac]

Thanks for that. I don't think I was clear in what I was asking though. I'm not asking for people to weigh in again on this person's credibility. What I am trying to do is figure out exactly what he said. I have seen different sources attribute different words to what they think they hear on the tape. I am wondering if there is an "official" version of what words were actually spoken? I imagine if that had happened we would have heard about it. So my next question is, is there a source that is generally deemed more reliable in transcribing what they think they are hearing.

Again, not asking if his "version" is generally accepted as true. Asking if there is a generally accepted transcription of what he supposedly is saying because I have read varying words attributed to the person. TIA and thanks for your response.

Okay, gotcha. I misunderstood, lol! I've seen some transcriptions (don't know where to find to link) I personally just listened to the video myself so I guess I can say that I accept MY transcription.

 

[Frydaddy]

frydaddy, good to see you again.

I have had the chance to go back and re-read your thoughts on the witnesses. Of your comments, the ones that are most convincing arguments to me personally involve Crenshaw and her ability to see the events. The moving between windows, going to get her purse and the brick wall are all certainly things that make me raise an eye brow and would want flushed out. At first glance, without actually getting the chance to question her personally, yes, those things particularly would throw up a flag for me.

I certainly read your other points on those 2 posts and will never begrudge you your right to call their testimony into question for those reasons. For me, personally, the points above are the only ones that give me concern.

That's cool. Piaget was the easy witness to discredit, Tiffany was a bit tougher, but it's there, IMO. No worries if you still believe in her though, I'm finding it tough to stay interested in the conversation lately to be honest. Appreciate you taking the time to reply!

 

[Lovejac]

Especially Interesting especially because that is how Officer Wilson's childhood was. His mother was a felon, a con artist, a thief, who made his childhood intolerable. She dies when he was 16, and he bounced around in the system for awhile and in various relatives homes, couch surfing. So it is really sad, imo, that he is being scapegoated by the locals, as a white monster. jmo

You are absolutely right, katydid! I hadn't even made that connection.

Officer Wilson had less than desirable beginings, made personal choices to rise above and then decided to give back by becoming a civil servant.