MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #1

[wfgodot]

At any rate, it is very symbolic of 'burying' the abuse away where no one else can see it, and only the victim knows about it.

ITA it sounds more like something a woman would say, and maybe even one who 'coped' with her own horrible issues.

Until recent years, *nobody* wanted to hear about incest & take steps to do something about it. Unfortunately, there's still too many ears that are not ready to hear about it.

Exactly.

 

[wfgodot]

The messages in jars is kind of a strange element here. But I just can't see the victims even mentioning that if it weren't true. KWIM? Why would they intentionally add a lie that could be easily disputed?

Good point. It's the concrete evidence in, so far, an abstract case.

 

[Texas Mist]

The messages in jars is kind of a strange element here. But I just can't see the victims even mentioning that if it weren't true. KWIM? Why would they intentionally add a lie that could be easily disputed?

I wish I could find the blogs of an incest survivor that I was reading a couple weeks ago. The author talked about how perps use essentially code language, which is very innocent, to circumvent detection. For example, they teach the child to refer to their molesting moments as an innocent activity, like 'walk in the park'. When someone asks them "what did you & <perp> do today?" they answer "we went for a walk in the park". No one is the wiser...and as time goes by, non-perps who mention the innocent activity to the victim do *not* understand why the child gets so upset -- after all, a walk in the park sounds like a fun activity.

Sick. Sick. Sick.

 

[Reannan]

Good point. It's the concrete evidence in, so far, an abstract case.

They haven't located the evidence yet, and I need for it to be located. It reminds me of a pair of black shiny patent leather Easter shoes I was given when I was about 5 years old. I was told to NOT wear them outside. Of course, I wore them outside and played in the mud in the garden near the grape vines and watermelons. My right shoe got sucked off into the mud, and it should be buried there in the mud to this day - at least 45 years latter! What are the actual chances of anyone finding that shoe, however? I guess I am thinking it would be easy to claim that jars were buried, and if they are never found....that doesn't really prove anything except that they were not found! KWIM??? I was born a skeptic, and this story just sets my hinky meter off. Maybe it needs to be recalibrated! :waitasec:

 

[Fairy1]

At any rate, it is very symbolic of 'burying' the abuse away where no one else can see it, and only the victim knows about it.

ITA it sounds more like something a woman would say, and maybe even one who 'coped' with her own horrible issues.

Until recent years, *nobody* wanted to hear about incest & take steps to do something about it. Unfortunately, there's still too many ears that are not ready to hear about it.

I totally get the symbolism, but I find it odd that very young children would have that type of insight without some kind of guidance, don't you?

One of my first questions when I saw this thread was where was the mother of these children? Considering the alleged abusers consist of 2 generations of one family, who's to say other family members didn't know? I sure would like to believe I would KNOW something was wrong if all of my own babies were being sexually abused by their father, uncles and grandfather on a regular basis. FGS - how could you NOT know? Not saying others in the family did know about it, but jeeeeeeeeez!

And - the whole "wedding ceremony" thing sounds very cultish to me.

 

[wfgodot]

They haven't located the evidence yet, and I need for it to be located. It reminds me of a pair of black shiny patent leather Easter shoes I was given when I was about 5 years old. I was told to NOT wear them outside. Of course, I wore them outside and played in the mud in the garden near the grape vines and watermelons. My right shoe got sucked off into the mud, and it should be buried there in the mud to this day - at least 45 years latter! What are the actual chances of anyone finding that shoe, however? I guess I am thinking it would be easy to claim that jars were buried, and if they are never found....that doesn't really prove anything except that they were not found! KWIM??? I was born a skeptic, and this story just sets my hinky meter off. Maybe it needs to be recalibrated! :waitasec:

Great points. And even if the jars are in fact found, I can see a defense attorney's approach to attacking the material: because they are found does not necessarily make what they contain the truth.

 

[Texas Mist]

I totally get the symbolism, but I find it odd that very young children would have that type of insight without some kind of guidance, don't you?

One of my first questions when I saw this thread was where was the mother of these children? Considering the alleged abusers consist of 2 generations of one family, who's to say other family members didn't know? I sure would like to believe I would KNOW something was wrong if all of my own babies were being sexually abused by their father, uncles and grandfather on a regular basis. FGS - how could you NOT know? Not saying others in the family did know about it, but jeeeeeeeeez!

"where are the wimmen" was one of my first questions too.

Reality tho is that to many, this is a 'normal' part of childhood, and one deals with it until s/he can move away. Families for years have chosen to just not deal with it or accept it for normalcy.

For healthy families, I know it's incomprehensible. For the dysfunctional, it's just life as they know it or as their offspring 'deserves', because that's what they got as a child.

One of the reasons why the abuse is hard to believe.

I admit the story about the jars is odd, but lots of things where abuse is concerned is 'out there', IYKWIM.

I guess another way of going about this would be to know what's the motive for elaborate lies?

And it's always harder to keep a far-fetched story straight when theres +2 people.

It just seems to me that a major case squad would be able to see deceit if it were there - with so many vics reporting as adults.

IDK. Could have it all wrong. But there's something about it that rings true to me.

 

[southcitymom]

The messages in jars is kind of a strange element here. But I just can't see the victims even mentioning that if it weren't true. KWIM? Why would they intentionally add a lie that could be easily disputed?

I am not following how this would be a lie (and I'm not saying it is a lie) that could be easily disputed. Even if the jars are never found that doesn't mean they weren't there. Time and memory have a way of making things move.

 

[Missizzy]

I know that we have to be very careful about speaking of the victims to protect their identities but I'd like to make an observation. A certain younger family member does have a blog. She blogged that she had a miscarriage earlier this year and is now very excited to be pregnant again. Keep in min that I have no proof, whatsoever, that she is a victim.

In working with our kids through therapy, I've learned that certain "life markers" can resurrect the issues and pain of abuse. It's not much of a stretch to think that the loss of a baby might trigger memories of long ago. Also, being pregnant with another child might trigger emotions of protection of that child. Just something to think about.

 

[Fairy1]

I am not following how this would be a lie (and I'm not saying it is a lie) that could be easily disputed. Even if the jars are never found that doesn't mean they weren't there. Time and memory have a way of making things move.

You're right SCM. I'm just thinking how people tend to embellish false stories with specific elements to make them sound more believable. But I feel it would have been reckless, if the allegations are not true, to add this "fact" to the story if it wasn't so.

There were at least five victims. If they were all burying these jars over time, it would add up. IMO, if LE finds just one of those jars, it lends a lot of credibility to the allegations. If they find none, it will be very difficult to prove the abuse occurred at all. After all these years, physical evidence will be difficult to come by.

 

[Openmind]

I am not following how this would be a lie (and I'm not saying it is a lie) that could be easily disputed. Even if the jars are never found that doesn't mean they weren't there. Time and memory have a way of making things move.

If the jars were real, the men could have dug them up and thrown them away.

It remind me of when Joseph Duncan had his victims write out their wishes to be saved and then burned them in their campfire. He called it burning their wishes. The children were too innocent to understand how he was using the words and thought they were offers of hope.

Not to understate the issue, but this family has serious problems. If the abuse is true, the ramifications are long and deep. If these children were so cruelly abused and no one knew, that is unexcusable and horrific. If it is a lie, they have some deep hatred for these men and I wonder why. I am trying to imagine why these young adults would lie about something so horrific and public. No one in this situation will be left unscarred by either the crimes or the lies

 

[Patthebunny]

Southcitymom, You are right. What a shame it is when some people will use (untrue) allegations, (like this), as a weapon! All I can say is if these guys are guilty....castrate them before burning them at the stake!

 

[southcitymom]

You're right SCM. I'm just thinking how people tend to embellish false stories with specific elements to make them sound more believable. But I feel it would have been reckless, if the allegations are not true, to add this "fact" to the story if it wasn't so.

There were at least five victims. If they were all burying these jars over time, it would add up. IMO, if LE finds just one of those jars, it lends a lot of credibility to the allegations. If they find none, it will be very difficult to prove the abuse occurred at all. After all these years, physical evidence will be difficult to come by.

I am following where you were going with it now, Fairy - thanks for explaining. I have not read every single link. Can you or someone fill me in on what we know specifically about the buried jars? Did all the possible abuse victims say they buried these jars? Were a lot of them buried?

 

[PAXIMUS]

I am following where you were going with it now, Fairy - thanks for explaining. I have not read every single link. Can you or someone fill me in on what we know specifically about the buried jars? Did all the possible abuse victims say they buried these jars? Were a lot of them buried?

We do not know. We only know that at least one of the victims has suggested that jars were buried.


It is painful to watch so many people jump to conclusions in these threads.

Lets stick with the facts, folks.

I spent ten years of my life researching the McMartin preschool case during the 80s-90s satanic panic witch hunt and I learned that it is very important to stick with the facts and not set out to destroy the lives of people until the evidence is known.

 

[Patthebunny]

It it seems a bit-detailed too be a fabrication, I agree. There is also more than one victim, making it even more likely, true. My point is that people have been known to make false allegations, which have ruined lives.

 

[Fairy1]

I am following where you were going with it now, Fairy - thanks for explaining. I have not read every single link. Can you or someone fill me in on what we know specifically about the buried jars? Did all the possible abuse victims say they buried these jars? Were a lot of them buried?

As far as I can tell, the majority of the allegations have come from one of the daughters, with corraboration from the other siblings. It's entirely likely that I missed something, but the one daughter appears to be spearheading this. The investigation, so far, has been going on since August. I tend to believe LE has found something that supports the claims or they wouldn't have made the arrests. Though I must say, the low bonds have me a bit concerned.

Not saying I hope the allegations ARE real, but I would hate to see so many people making false claims against their own family members. All of the victims, so far, are the children of one of the accused. I can't imagine all of these people making such enormously damaging allegations against their own family members because of sour grapes.

 

[PAXIMUS]

It it seems a bit-detailed too be a fabrication, I agree. There is also more than one victim, making it even more likely, true. My point is that people have been known to make false allegations, which have ruined lives.

It may be true it may not be true. At this point it could be equally true that an ex wife has turned her children against their father's entire family for who knows what reason. This happens everyday. We do not know the facts yet.

If the evidence shows this to be true, put them away for a long time.

 

[Missizzy]

I found this quote and hope that all the neighbors are going to compare notes:

"Jill Edwards, Mohler's neighbor of three years, said she would have never suspected anything like this because he was "such a kind neighbor."

"He was a very religious man and held Bible studies at his home every Sunday," Edwards said.

Some neighbors knew Mohler as just the guy who would walk around the neighborhood with his pit bull, Cypree.

"He was really nice and the kids loved to jump around in the bed of his truck," said Tamika Thornton, who lives down the street. "All the kids would say 'Jared doesn't care.'"

Some of the neighbors said they were planning on meeting later this week to discuss the recent events."

 

[Fairy1]

We do not know. We only know that at least one of the victims has suggested that jars were buried.


It is painful to watch so many people jump to conclusions in these threads.

Lets stick with the facts, folks.

I spent ten years of my life researching the McMartin preschool case during the 80s satanic panic witch hunt and I learned that it is very important to stick with the facts and not set out to destroy the lives of people until the evidence is known.

Agreed. However, let's not overlook the "fact" that LE went to great lengths to coordinate the arrests of the accused and are digging up the property in question based on the information they have so far. The excavation is going to cost big bucks so they must feel there is some validity to the claims.

IMHO.

 

[PAXIMUS]

As far as I can tell, the majority of the allegations have come from one of the daughters, with corraboration from the other siblings. It's entirely likely that I missed something, but the one daughter appears to be spearheading this. The investigation, so far, has been going on since August. I tend to believe LE has found something that supports the claims or they wouldn't have made the arrests. Though I must say, the low bonds have me a bit concerned.

Not saying I hope the allegations ARE real, but I would hate to see so many people making false claims against their own family members. All of the victims, so far, are the children of one of the accused. I can't imagine all of these people making such enormously damaging allegations against their own family members because of sour grapes.

This happens everyday in all sorts of families. Very common actually, more common than child abuse even I would suggest. Families turn on eachother often and say all sorts of mean spirited things that are not even remotely true.