Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #6

[KMD_KC]

A lack of air plus cold water prevents putrefaction and therefore slows decomp - just as it would if you had a whole chicken out on your counter vs one covered with cold water in a container in your refrigerator (set to a near freezing temp).

Not true. Go back and look at water temps in that's area and the great degree at which they fluctuated.

 

[StPauliGirlK]

So, I had to google bruising. This is what I got. My question is, do you continue to bruise after expiring? I would not know. Would the body in that temperature plus cease of blood flow produce or prevent bruising?

I was wondering the same thing. If the time line is accurate and the theory about her hitting the insurance tracking device with her knee and disabling it while stopped at the QT is accurate, then this injury would have had to occur (roughly) 75 minutes before she went into the water. If this is all true, then it would seem that the chemical process that causes the discoloration of a bruise must continue after death.

 

[StPauliGirlK]

Not true. Go back and look at water temps in that's area and the great degree at which they fluctuated.

Were the temps of the water at the bottom of the river where Toni's car was found being sampled during those 8 weeks?

 

[BaileyC]

Were the temps of the water at the bottom of the river where Toni's car was found being sampled during those 8 weeks?

I've been questioning the decomposition. Missouri has had a mild winter and warm/hot Feb. In Feb. temps up around 80 at times. Here's a chart for St. Charles Mo which is East of Parkville over by St. Louis. I can't find the chart for Parkville, Mo for some reason. Water temps were up around the 50's in Feb. With those temps and what I've read about bodies decomposition in water, if Toni went in the river Jan 15, she would be badly decomposed.

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?cb_00010=on&cb_00060=on&cb_00065=on&format=gif_default&site_no=06610000&period=&begin_date=2017-03-06&end_date=2017-03-13

Just hit go to in order to read link.

 

[thekarmabus]

Even at those temps constantly, which they were not. You would have blood pooling to escape the body which would appear a small a bruise. I, of course did not see her body, but the way it was described to the media was that it was so pristinely preserved that a bruise to the knee stood out. Believe me, if you're dead anywhere for 2 months your body will be badly discolored and possible appear bruised in multiple places, especially hands, arms, legs, feet. Also being submerged that long in water above freezing temps would almost definitely cause some sort of loss of parts... usuallly hand and feet fall off first.

Fishing reports state differently for the lake. Also if water had been warmer the fish would have been more active and (cringe) nibbled the body . Do you have other temp data for the lake?

https://www.fishingnotes.com/laketrends.php?id=38272&st=KLXT&v=3

This occurs in cold water:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocere

In corpses, the firm cast of adipocere allows some estimation of body shape and facial features, and injuries are often well-preserved.[3]



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[OnTheCase101]

https://crimewatchdaily.com/2017/03...y-morning-traffic-stop-phone-gps-deactivated/
From the article:

On the night she went missing, police say, Toni had told co-workers at Chrome that she was going to meet friends at another club in downtown Kansas City, called the Shady Lady. But that just didn't make sense to police.
"They close at 3 in the morning, so the business was closed when she said she was going to go there," said Sgt. Caldwell. And just after leaving work, Toni was in fact traveling in the opposite direction of the Shady Lady when she was pulled over by a police officer for making an illegal lane change.

Then farther down in the article:

But as they searched for Toni, police found something else in her text and phone records that caught their attention: Communications indicating that when Toni disappeared she was actually on her way to meet another man, a co-worker at Chrome. Sgt. Caldwell tells Crime Watch Daily that they were able to identify that friend, who was cooperative and forthcoming, but the friend did not yield any new clues. And Toni did not make her meeting at that location. "Based upon what the investigation has revealed, yes, I can say with the utmost certainty that she did not go to that location," said Caldwell.


Toni did not meet her friends at the Shady Lady as apparently was planned.
Toni did not show up to meet the co-worker at planned location as her texts revealed.
Instead she is at a desolate park at 5 a.m.

It doesn't sound like she had other communication with someone else to meet her at that park. Her phone would reveal that communication like it did with the coworker. (But if she did, I don't think that will ever be revealed most likely because it would put her in a bad light.) But as of right now if, and thats a big if, there was any other communication with someone else to meet in the park that person has been cleared.

So the conclusion is she was in a park, out of her way for no reason anyone can explain and made a crazy driving error which cost her her life.

This one will always bother me.

A week or so ago, PS Sr. implied on FB that she went there to buy weed. That makes a lot of sense to me and mirrors everything I've heard about the guy she was supposed to meet up with.

 

[BunnyHop]

https://crimewatchdaily.com/2017/03...y-morning-traffic-stop-phone-gps-deactivated/
From the article:

On the night she went missing, police say, Toni had told co-workers at Chrome that she was going to meet friends at another club in downtown Kansas City, called the Shady Lady. But that just didn't make sense to police.
"They close at 3 in the morning, so the business was closed when she said she was going to go there," said Sgt. Caldwell. And just after leaving work, Toni was in fact traveling in the opposite direction of the Shady Lady when she was pulled over by a police officer for making an illegal lane change.

Then farther down in the article:

But as they searched for Toni, police found something else in her text and phone records that caught their attention: Communications indicating that when Toni disappeared she was actually on her way to meet another man, a co-worker at Chrome. Sgt. Caldwell tells Crime Watch Daily that they were able to identify that friend, who was cooperative and forthcoming, but the friend did not yield any new clues. And Toni did not make her meeting at that location. "Based upon what the investigation has revealed, yes, I can say with the utmost certainty that she did not go to that location," said Caldwell.


Toni did not meet her friends at the Shady Lady as apparently was planned.
Toni did not show up to meet the co-worker at planned location as her texts revealed.
Instead she is at a desolate park at 5 a.m.

It doesn't sound like she had other communication with someone else to meet her at that park. Her phone would reveal that communication like it did with the coworker. (But if she did, I don't think that will ever be revealed most likely because it would put her in a bad light.) But as of right now if, and thats a big if, there was any other communication with someone else to meet in the park that person has been cleared.

So the conclusion is she was in a park, out of her way for no reason anyone can explain and made a crazy driving error which cost her her life.

This one will always bother me.

Bump.

 

[kanzz]

Not true. Go back and look at water temps in that's area and the great degree at which they fluctuated.

Ok. Do you have a link?

 

[mrsu]

I haven't had time to catch up on this thread but it's OBVIOUS to me that she was meeting someone in the park. You don't travel to NKC and then get stopped and then go further north if you don't have intentions to. She obviously told her friends she was meeting some others at the Shady Lady (likely just as an excuse) and her original destination was the park.

I'm still having a really hard time believing it's an accident or suicide. For some reason I doubt this was her first time in the park.

On a separate note, someone in the comments on one of the articles of FB said this park had cameras when you enter the area. Is there any local that can confirm this??

 

[kanzz]

After death blood pooling in the body can present as "bruising". A bruise is broken blood vessels and a pooling of blood. When you die your body is ridding itself of your blood which would result in the visual as massive bruising to the extremities.

bbm


What do you mean?

 

[LietKynes]

A week or so ago, PS Sr. implied on FB that she went there to buy weed. That makes a lot of sense to me and mirrors everything I've heard about the guy she was supposed to meet up with.

RSBM

Well Toni wouldn't be the only person in this world to make a bad decision. Or to have lived a high risk lifestyle.
At least her family has answers and don't have to fear that she's being held against her will.

I'm interested in this person she met at the park , and I have my doubts she just drove accidentally into the water and perished.
I hope they check her for everything from bruises to tox tests, and if she was dead long before she went into the water.
Probably reaching here ; but what if someone wanted her 'silenced' for good ?
MOO

RIP, Toni !

 

[KMD_KC]

Fishing reports state differently for the lake. Also if water had been warmer the fish would have been more active and (cringe) nibbled the body . Do you have other temp data for the lake?

https://www.fishingnotes.com/laketrends.php?id=38272&st=KLXT&v=3

This occurs in cold water:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocere

In corpses, the firm cast of adipocere allows some estimation of body shape and facial features, and injuries are often well-preserved.[3]



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I live in the area and do lots of boating and fishing. Most bodies of water haven't even frozen this year.

 

[perfectingpink]

A lack of air plus cold water prevents putrefaction and therefore slows decomp - just as it would if you had a whole chicken out on your counter vs one covered with cold water in a container in your refrigerator (set to a near freezing temp).

Trying to be sensitive again and I admit I do not have a way with words, so forgive me if I offend anyone. I agree with what you are saying about the cold water and the one thing I would like to add is speculation of what fish, parasites, bacteria etc. would do after 2 months under water.

 

[KMD_KC]

bbm


What do you mean?

If a deceased person was in the water for 2 months there would be massive bruising and discoloration. A bruise to the knee would not be discernible as to the other decomposition at that point in time, if you believe the time table given that she entered the river that morning.

 

[OnTheCase101]

RSBM

Well Toni wouldn't be the only person in this world to make a bad decision. Or to have lived a high risk lifestyle.
At least her family has answers and don't have to fear that she's being held against her will.

I'm interested in this person she met at the park , and I have my doubts she just drove accidentally into the water and perished.
I hope they check her for everything from bruises to tox tests, and if she was dead long before she went into the water.
Probably reaching here ; but what if someone wanted her 'silenced' for good ?
MOO

RIP, Toni !

What's sad is, I don't really think trying to buy some weed after getting off work is so high-risk. It seems we all put so much more emphasis on her "lifestyle" that we forget what being 20 is like. Not attacking you personally at all, just a general sad observation about the case.

 

[cool12]

I wonder if this light was on?

i've been thinking, in addition to the cold water, her being tired and possibly impaired, it must have been dark too as her car started sinking. this might make escaping even more difficult.
wonder how much light this would provide?

 

[BamiesFan]

It sounds like LE and Toni parents just want this OVER. Parents had a daughter reported to have a stripper drug lifestyle as a teenager. They want to stop being reminded of that. LE just wants to close the case as an accident. They dont have to count this as a murder. I dont believe she drove herself into one of the largest rivers in the world.

 

[perfectingpink]

Fishing reports state differently for the lake. Also if water had been warmer the fish would have been more active and (cringe) nibbled the body . Do you have other temp data for the lake?

https://www.fishingnotes.com/laketrends.php?id=38272&st=KLXT&v=3

This occurs in cold water:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocere

In corpses, the firm cast of adipocere allows some estimation of body shape and facial features, and injuries are often well-preserved.[3]



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Adipicere requires the absence of oxygen and I suppose if Toni's body was covered in silt, this could happen, but I am not sure she would have been covered so quickly that she would be that preserved.

 

[policyoftruth501]

bbm


What do you mean?

I don't want to speak to this user's intent, but in general the term for what they're speaking of is lividity. When someone dies, the blood settles to the lowest tissue. So if a person is lying down, it would settle towards their back side (i.e., back, buttocks, backs of their arms, and backs of their legs). If the body is seated, it would settle towards the part of the body that is lowest.

This can look a lot like bruising, but like one HUGE bruise that covers an entire area (i.e., all of the back rather than spots). I'm sure the medical examiner would know to take this into account. Sorry if you already knew this and were asking for a specific explanation as it relates to this case.


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[MrX]

Bottom fell out of my stomach when I read that the search area was suggested by a "psychic" for the reasons we are seeing now. For 13 pages we have gone from "how did parents know <fill in the blank>," to basically accepting the "ramp slide" theory as fact.

I know some folks will never be convinced, but to learn more about how "psychics" operate look at the work of James Randi (www.randi.org).

Essentially a "psychic" in a case like this starts by playing the odds. Accepting the last phone contact around 6AM, versus 9PM, makes that stretch of river a good bet. Once the body was found there (through no supernatural ability), the parents who believed the psychic are "hooked." Considering the "GPS" angle, and the boat launch, it becomes easy for a "psychic" to tell a comforting story that can most likely never be debunked. The illusion of detail is a key skill in this racket - not just sliding into the river, but "trying to make a U Turn," and the "knee bruise from hitting the GPS." It's all made up, yet it "sounds" so good. Even the abrupt "case closed," I believe came from the "psychic" - anything that contradicts this narrative will be "bad for business."

Some will say "so what, if it gives them comfort," but the problem is that it isn't "real," and these charlatans cause immeasurable harm when they don't "get lucky."

Look into the money that a top flight "psychic" can make - some of them tour concert halls. Whoever got the Anderson's ear in this case just won the lottery.