Mother outraged after son has teeth removed at school

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I don't take issue with him having the procedure because she signed the consent form. I have issues of allowing a nine-year-old to walk home alone after having three teeth extracted. The program is wonderful but maybe children who have teeth extracted she have to be picked up and a medical release form signed. Most extraction are gone fine but there are still some medical issue that can arise.

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Flemming says she sees now that the consent form she signed in March 2015 mentions extractions of baby teeth, but she'd still want to be notified before such a serious procedure.
http://newsok.com/article/feed/1155845 ....

sbm re Jan 25 link^ Mother admitted to signing the consent form & admitted the form includes baby teeth extractions.

But wants notification before such a serious procedure? As baby teeth of many (or most or virtually all?) grade school-age children fall out naturally or are pulled out by the kids themselves or mom or dad, ^ does not seem like brain surgery. W apologies to our dental & med. professionals. Yes, we've heard 'no dental/medical procedure is minor.'


If Ms Flemmng had scheduled a dental apptmt Monday, why did her son participate in in-school-program just a few days before then? Puzzling to me. JM2cts.
 
Nobody should sign anything EVER unless they have read everything and fully understand everything.

If she had a problem understanding what she was signing for, she should have asked somebody at the school to explain it to her before she signs.

It doesn't matter if its in legal terms, or not,

One of my favorite sayings....."If you can not explain something in simple terms, then you don't know enough about it"
 
sbm re Jan 25 link^ Mother admitted to signing the consent form & admitted the form includes baby teeth extractions.

But wants notification before such a serious procedure? As baby teeth of many (or most or virtually all?) grade school-age children fall out naturally or are pulled out by the kids themselves or mom or dad, ^ does not seem like brain surgery. W apologies to our dental & med. professionals. Yes, we've heard 'no dental/medical procedure is minor.'


If Ms Flemmng had scheduled a dental apptmt Monday, why did her son participate in in-school-program just a few days before then? Puzzling to me. JM2cts.
Maybe, since signing the permission slip for her son to be part of this dental program almost two years ago, she forgot? Or was expecting the school to let her know when the dentist was coming to the school and maybe she never heard anything about it so she scheduled a dentist appointment for her kid? Has anyone considered that she signed the form in March 2015 and expected to be notified by the school as to when the dental work would be taking case and to also be notified the day of the procedure if anything was to be done besides a cleaning? I really don't think that is an unreasonable expectation for something she signed a consent form for close to 2 years ago.
 
Maybe, since signing the permission slip for her son to be part of this dental program almost two years ago, she forgot? Or was expecting the school to let her know when the dentist was coming to the school and maybe she never heard anything about it so she scheduled a dentist appointment for her kid? Has anyone considered that she signed the form in March 2015 and expected to be notified by the school as to when the dental work would be taking case and to also be notified the day of the procedure if anything was to be done besides a cleaning? I really don't think that is an unreasonable expectation for something she signed a consent form for close to 2 years ago.
re ^bbm queenb3577 Good point about passage of time. It's possible.

But there are other possibilities too. From yr to yr, lots of kids move around from one household to another, or one school to another. Likely - school and/or dental org requires a parent/guardian-signed consent each school year, possibly for each clinic or appt.

Is it poss Mother signed a consent form in first semester this school year? And it looked different from form she acknowledged signing in Mar 2015, as told in later news stories? Maybe she had a copy of prior yr form at home, but not a copy of 2016-17 form (she possibly signed in 2016 or even Jan 2017). If so, the school and/or dental org may not have been relying on a nearly 2 yr-old consent form.

Upthread, commenter (sorry forgot who) posted language of MD form & link to pdf of it. Imo, those 2 forms
(one shown in hand and the other form in pdf at link) looked different from one another, altho language/content may have been virtually the same. IDK. Enough (hairsplitting?) for me on this for now. As always, JM2cts.
 
Maybe, since signing the permission slip for her son to be part of this dental program almost two years ago, she forgot?

"forgetting" would never hold up in a court of law, all they would need to do is show those documents to a judge, time lapse has nothing to do with it, unless there is a specific statement in there saying "this form becomes invalid on [insert date here]" and the treatment was after the date stated,

saying you "forgot" is the equivalent of ignorance to a law, which is no excuse, that is like saying "but you honor, I didn't know"

i signed my mortgage and credit card documents over 8 years ago, and I am mature enough to admit I agreed to everything I signed for in those documents to this day.

if there is something i missed in those documents, then thats my fault
 
I sincerely doubt that a signed permission slip two years ago is relevant. I have not heard of anyone holding a permission slip for two years in a school.

Each year parents sign new permission forms This whole thing is ridiculous.

The only concern I have, if true, is that the child walked home if he was a buser. That is the problem, if true
 
The "victim" in this instance isn't the mother, it's the child. Some here want to crucify the mother by saying 'well it's her fault for not reading'. Yeah. Well. The little boy is the one who gets to suffer and who was put at risk by being let out the door to walk home.
 
I feel really sorry for the boy - I can't IMAGINE allowing one of my sons to be on video on local news crying about a dental procedure. He's 9 years old, he had teeth pulled because they were infected, which is actually a health hazard for children to have seriously rotting teeth to the point they have to be pulled.

No one is suggesting this procedure wasn't necessary, I don't think. It was necessary. And then he walked the "nearly mile" home. In my school district, kids who live less than 1.5 miles from school don't get bus service. Walking "nearly a mile" after a dental procedure involving novocaine doesn't seem like too much to ask.

It's a source of pride for most boys to act tough - they refuse jackets when it's freezing outside, insist that roughhousing punches "didn't hurt", etc. And now this legacy for this child.

I wonder what his dental appt was for on Monday. My guess is, they would have extracted these same teeth.
 
The consent process they are using for care and services is MASSIVELY problematic, if it is true that mother signed a consent form for “blanket” treatment, TWENTY MONTHS AGO, in March of 2015. I cannot think of any other environment within healthcare that a blanket “consent for any and all care” would be legally valid for such an extended period of time. I won’t spend too much space going into details, but nearly every health care setting requires signing HIPPA and insurance papers at a minimum of every 12 months, and pediatric procedures are consented typically "one" episode at a time. Why should poor kids treated at school be given LESS informed consent than what occurs in a clinic environment? Boggles the mind.

So there are large questions about consent for care—is it the school district’s responsibility, the dental providers, the social services agency who hosts the dental care, etc. Likewise, it is extremely problematic that it isn’t clear whose responsibility it is to contact a parent, when that contact should occur, and what to do if they can’t reach a parent.

I cannot fault what the dental professionals did (extractions) without knowing much more about the totality of the situation, and seeing the records. It looks like from the pics that the 3 deciduous teeth (baby teeth) removed were extremely close to coming out on their own. It could be that during the course of instrumenting and cleaning the child’s teeth, the loose teeth were loosened to a point where if they left them, he was in more pain and risk (swallowing, choking, ongoing minior bleeding, etc) than if they just plucked them out, and ensured the bleeding stopped. There could have been food particles stuck under a “hinged” tooth, etc. Simply because they removed those teeth does not make it an incompetent decision, or even an unwise one.

The problem lies with the consent process, the parental notification process, and the liability of the school and the dental group, as well as questions about whether the child should have been allowed to walk home.

Did the school admin, or dental people, TRY to reach a parent to get more consent, or to come and get the child at the end of the day? What do they do if they can’t reach a parent, and it’s the end of the school day? Did the child live in a defined “walker zone”, but also had the option to take a bus? Did he miss a school bus, or a city bus? We have only the mother’s story to the press, and I am quite skeptical that this is the “whole” story. The school and the dental group can’t say a thing, so we only have the sensationalized reporting, and half the story.

Part of the problem here is the desire to provide social services within the framework of the school system. I used to be supportive of this technique, but I think we should substantially modify our expectations, and our approach to how we try to encourage participation in social services among the rural and inner city poor. I think this mechanism of trying to provide some basic medical services and social services worked well about 50 years ago, when populations were more homogenous, and the overriding goal was to provide “herd” immunity for things like the widespread and devastating polio epidemic. But now we have traversed into an era where many medical, dental, and social services are not only promoted, but hosted by the school systems on school property, DURING the school day. This is a serious problem that has more serious issues and risks NOW, than benefits, IMO.

The goal of providing medical, dental, and social services on school property is to “centralize” the portal of entry to a menu of social services for poor families, and the “convenience” of providing "needed" care to a population of neglected kids that are there almost every day. That sounds very good on the surface, and in many third world nations, it is a model of public health that works extremely well.

However, IMO, it doesn’t work well at all in rural and inner city USA, for many reasons. Imagine all of the legal and social ramifications of what could happen if some unlucky child got a shot of local anesthetic for dental care, and had a cardiac arrest right there in the school building??!!

Poor families often claim they have no money, resources, or time to get their kids needed care—but the other side of that issue is that many low income parents simply do not “want” to do what is needed to even get free services for their kids. There are many programs that give free bus passes, or even taxi vouchers, AND free care, and still the parents don’t bring the kids in for care. So, by offering these charity services during the school day, we bypass the neglectful parents, and substitute the school system for what the parents should be doing. I know that’s controversial to say out loud, but it is the harsh truth.

IMO, the dental professionals currently providing services to low income kids in that district will now probably pull out. And I think they should—not because I’m heartless, and want poor kids to have a mouthful of rotten teeth, but precisely because of what has happened with the consent process, and liability for both the school district, and the health care providers. This family is almost certainly going to try to sue the district and the dental providers, and IMO, is laying the groundwork for that with the publicity, and seeking out a private dentist.

IMO, the role of the school is to *promote* social services, not PROVIDE them. Families should be given information on where to go to receive low cost, or free services. They should be REFERRED to county social services, which should be provided NOT on the campus of the school, for reasons of acute liability for the school and the medical providers. The kids who need dental care, for example, should be given information on free services, and how to contact a social worker if they need transportation, or signed up for Medicaid, etc.

If a family shows up for dental or other care at a clinic, then the clinic and the professionals are responsible for the consent process, etc. This muddling of the school with the social services agencies and the medical and dental providers is extremely problematic, IMO. You can even argue that providing free care off the campus better protects the privacy and dignity of the poor kids, since no one need know they are "poor" and getting the "free" care at school. If the parents don't follow thru on recommended services, that is another issue that should be resolved with child welfare agencies. Schools should be referring people to services, not providing them.

I still think the "free food" programs that occur during the school day are beneficial, and don't have a problem with those. But medical care, dental care, well-child checkups, immunizations, psychological services, etc-- SHOULD NOT be provided on the campus of a public school in the USA. And this case is a perfect example of why they shouldn't, IMO.
 
I feel really sorry for the boy - I can't IMAGINE allowing one of my sons to be on video on local news crying about a dental procedure. He's 9 years old, he had teeth pulled because they were infected, which is actually a health hazard for children to have seriously rotting teeth to the point they have to be pulled.

No one is suggesting this procedure wasn't necessary, I don't think. It was necessary. And then he walked the "nearly mile" home. In my school district, kids who live less than 1.5 miles from school don't get bus service. Walking "nearly a mile" after a dental procedure involving novocaine doesn't seem like too much to ask.

It's a source of pride for most boys to act tough - they refuse jackets when it's freezing outside, insist that roughhousing punches "didn't hurt", etc. And now this legacy for this child.

I wonder what his dental appt was for on Monday. My guess is, they would have extracted these same teeth.

It's too much to ask for a child who is supposed to take the bus.

I won't get into the boys are supposed to act tough part. I think boys should be allowed to show as much weakness as women are allowed to show.
 
I also want to point out that we don't know if the dental providers used any local anesthetic. I cannot imagine that they did, because to do so is another higher level of care, consent, and emergency preparedness. I highly doubt they would have taken the chances to administer local anesthetics in an "out of clinic' environment in a school. I think they probably clean teeth, do visual exams (no xrays), do some teaching, and do very simple deciduous extractions, in that environment. I highly doubt they even do fillings. If a child needs fillings or crowns, or has an abscess, etc-- they are almost certainly referred to a "real" dental clinic. It simply isn't practical, or wise, to have all those meds and instruments in a "remote" location in a school.
 
It's too much to ask for a child who is supposed to take the bus.

I won't get into the boys are supposed to act tough part. I think boys should be allowed to show as much weakness as women are allowed to show.

I'm just saying, that's how boys treat each other. You get respect for being a little tough. As well you should, frankly, and that goes for everyone. Everyone should be a little tough and soldier through bumps without it necessarily leading to feeling traumatized. You can make things right with people who have done the wrong thing while still being strong and tough.

So this 9 year old who missed the bus had the savvy to say well, I better walk then. And he found his way home, safe and sound. I'd say that should earn him the "tough AND smart" award by his mom. How different would he be viewing this now, if that were the case? She could take up her concerns and complaints with the school and dental clinic out of sight of news cameras, told her son how proud she was of him that he knew just what to do when he missed the bus, get him ice cream and ramen for the next couple days til his mouth heals, and it would be such a much better experience for him. Now he's the subject of public discussion about whether his teeth are rotten or not. My heart goes out to him.
 
I feel really sorry for the boy - I can't IMAGINE allowing one of my sons to be on video on local news crying about a dental procedure.

then maybe the mother should have realized it was her own fault and not put her son in that position?
 
Yeah that's not how it works. If a child is supposed to be on a bus, the school should not be letting that kid walk out the door to walk home. Who would be held responsible if something had happened to that kid on his way home? If he had gotten lost because he's not used to walking home "just about a mile"?
 
I do agree with JeannaT above that the mother should have brought her concerns up completely differently than parading her child in front of media cameras, and complaining to reporters.

Did she contact the administrators at the school? Did she ask to have the contact information of the dentist that provided care to her son? Did the school, or the dental providers, attempt to contact her, and could not get reach her? There are many, many ways that she could have handled this situation, rather than the way she did.

The excuse is always that poor people feel "too intimidated" to handle things properly with those in authority, and that they are "mistrustful" of authority figures and health professionals, and that's why they so often go to the media to "tell their stories".

I disagree with that-- I think it's the exact opposite. Some of these people know exactly how to call up the media to "make a big fuss" and intimidate and embarrass those in positions of authority by complaining and making them look bad. Some of them do this with the intention of greatly exaggerating the situation, publicizing it, playing the role of "victim", with the ultimate goal of trying to "win" money in a lawsuit.

Whatever screening and cleanings kids were receiving at that school just came to a full stop, IMO. IMO, this mother screwed up the opportunity for all the other poor kids. So all the kids who were benefiting, will now almost certainly have that opportunity removed because of the dysfunctional way this mother chose to handle her concerns.

If I were a dentist, I would never, ever come back to a public school after a situation like this one, and I'm sure other professionals would feel the same. I'd give free vouchers for care in my office, but would never again set foot in a public school to provide any services. They could end up losing their entire practice over the "bad" publicity in this case-- and I suspect 99% of their regular patients are already low income, so that contributes to fewer services for everyone in that area.

For sure, there are conversations that should occur between the mother, the school admin, and the social service/ dental providers. The school board now needs to re-visit whether or not they will host any medical or dental services on school property. The Board needs to consider now that this mother will probably try to sue them.

Some unwise things MAY have happened in this situation-- we simply don't know, because we only have the disgruntled mother's perception, and we have don't have the explanation of the school or dentist. The school MAY have acted improperly by letting him walk home-- we simply don't know, because we don't have more information about what they did, if they attempted to contact the mother, or what the school policies are for walkers.

The boy is fine-- he doesn't have any "damages", and probably had exactly the proper dental treatment. The mother knows full well, IMO, that the school and dentist cannot speak to the media, so her version of the story is the ONLY one that most people will ever hear.

I think it's really disgusting that she paraded her kid in front of the cameras. JMO.
 
So this 9 year old who missed the bus had the savvy to say well, I better walk then. And he found his way home, safe and sound.

i agree,

part of growing up is figuring things out for yourself,

God forbid a child had to walk and get a bit of fresh air and exercise, what a horrible thing to have to do,

its not like he had to walk 5 miles or something,
 
i agree,

part of growing up is figuring things out for yourself,

God forbid a child had to walk and get a bit of fresh air and exercise, what a horrible thing to have to do,

its not like he had to walk 5 miles or something,

Would a nine yearvold necessarily even know the way home? And yes, something could happen. Somer Thompson in Florida was killed when her siblings ran away from her when walking home from school.
 
It would be quite... sad... if a nine year old would not know the way home! To put it mildly...

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It appears that Michael was/is a walker.


But there’s more — the procedure caused Michael to miss the bus, meaning he had to walk almost a full mile to get back home.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2017/...ram-removes-childs-teeth-without-her-knowing/

..................................


A Handbook for ESOL Students
and Their Families
Baltimore City Public Schools

If your child is in elementary school and lives 1 mile from school, your child will walk to school. If your child lives farther away, the school will provide transportation.

http://www.baltimorecityschools.org...andbook for ESOL PARENTS simplified draft.pdf
 

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