MS - 14-year old shoots parents; kills mother - Mar. 19, 2024

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Luna20 said:
I think her defense was awful. It was bizarre at times because he wasn’t specific when he needed to be, his tone was flat and he made no points on cross.

Her female therapist was better than her attorney. She gave specific details about her time with Carly.
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Agreed, fully.
 
ilovewings said:
I would think her case will be appealed --they will most probably allege ineffective counsel- I didn't watch the trial, but if her defense was as bad as some of you say it is, it is likely to be appealed on that basis.
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I have read opinions here and there which say similar, with a lot of mentions about switching the SSRIs.
 
Vail said:
At 14, there is nothing other than mental illness that causes you to kill your parents. She needs help, not a prison sentence. IMO.
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IMO, mental illness is an overused villain in far too many crimes. In many cases its more of a personality/character defect than a true mental illness that causes a person to murder.

This reminds me of the Sydney Powel case. In both cases, the daughter's "shameful" secret was discovered by the mother. Sydney Powell's mother discovered Sydney had been suspended from college. Carly Gregg's mother discovered Carley was vaping and smoking weed. Both mothers were then quickly murdered by the daughter, only minutes after the mother's discovery of the daughter's wrongdoing.
 
Trebor5591 said:
IMO, mental illness is an overused villain in far too many crimes. In many cases its more of a personality/character defect than a true mental illness that causes a person to murder.

This reminds me of the Sydney Powel case. In both cases, the daughter's "shameful" secret was discovered by the mother. Sydney Powell's mother discovered Sydney had been suspended from college. Carly Gregg's mother discovered Carley was vaping and smoking weed. Both mothers were then quickly murdered by the daughter, only minutes after the mother's discovery of the daughter's wrongdoing.
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But in terms of a mother lecturing and rebuking her teen daughter due to using weed and vaping — which must be common —murder would seem to be a severe, excessive, and abnormal reaction. A mentally stable teen would not respond with that criminal and murderous action. MOO
 
Trebor5591 said:
IMO, mental illness is an overused villain in far too many crimes. In many cases its more of a personality/character defect than a true mental illness that causes a person to murder.

This reminds me of the Sydney Powel case. In both cases, the daughter's "shameful" secret was discovered by the mother. Sydney Powell's mother discovered Sydney had been suspended from college. Carly Gregg's mother discovered Carley was vaping and smoking weed. Both mothers were then quickly murdered by the daughter, only minutes after the mother's discovery of the daughter's wrongdoing.
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I could not agree more that mental illness is an overused villain in far too many crimes. I have heard too many people say things like "only a crazy person would do such and such"-- Many normal people simply cannot comprehend that someone can murder someone unless the murderer is mentally ill and IMO that is not the case. I also agree with the premise that in many cases it is more of a personality/character defect that causes a person to murder.
 
Luna20 said:
I think her defense was awful. It was bizarre at times because he wasn’t specific when he needed to be, his tone was flat and he made no points on cross.

Her female therapist was better than her attorney. She gave specific details about her time with Carly.
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Which female therapist do you mean? Both of her prior therapists are female. Her defense team was a man and woman.
 
ilovewings said:
I could not agree more that mental illness is an overused villain in far too many crimes. I have heard too many people say things like "only a crazy person would do such and such"-- Many normal people simply cannot comprehend that someone can murder someone unless the murderer is mentally ill and IMO that is not the case. I also agree with the premise that in many cases it is more of a personality/character defect that causes a person to murder.
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Blaming mental illness for horrible crimes also puts a really negative bias out there towards mental illness. So many people struggle with mental health issues and are not violent or homicidal. I started SSRIs at 14, went on and off many, in order to find the one that worked the best for me. They saved my life.

Carly was found guilty of murder. She was not found to be mentally incompetent, or even convicted of a lesser charge because of medication induced insanity. If the Drs and jury didn't find the medication to blame, then it is time to put that to rest. I would hate to think that people may be afraid to try meds, or seek help for their child, if they are suffering with depression, anxiety, or ptsd. Just my opinion.
 
sasha17 said:
I'm late coming to this thread but I'm watching the trial videos now. Are Carly's defense attorneys public defenders or private counsel? If they're private counsel, who hired/funded them?
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They are not public defenders. Kevin Camp is a criminal defense attorney with Camp Law Firm. Bridget Todd was also her defense attorney . I don't know who hired them.
 
ChatteringBirds said:
(Quote snipped by me for focus.)
I don't think a teen who "never gave his parents any trouble" and "excelled" had "similar issues" to this girl. I think this girl was deeply struggling in many aspects of her life and wasn't going to be fine by just taking her medication.

But I do agree missing medications (or changing dosage, stopping it suddenly, or being on "the wrong one") can cause out-of-character and dangerous thoughts and contribute greatly to behaviors. I don't know whether her defense team went into this enough and wonder if the jury discussed it.
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My point was speaking to the medication only, not their differences elsewhere. Medication misused has real consequences.

In his case of not giving his parents any trouble, his change of behavior due to the medication lapse was shocking. It emphasized that with his med interrupted he was a totally different person.
 
Quill said:
Which female therapist do you mean? Both of her prior therapists are female. Her defense team was a man and woman.
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I didn’t get to see everything that day and I don’t know her name. Iirc she had blonde hair and was wearing an outfit that was pale blue or lilac. At one point I think she was moved to tears.
 
Luna20 said:
My point was speaking to the medication only, not their differences elsewhere. Medication misused has real consequences.

In his case of not giving his parents any trouble, his change of behavior due to the medication lapse was shocking. It emphasized that with his med interrupted he was a totally different person.
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I agree that can happen and wish there was much more understood about the whole topic of personality and behavior changes and medication.

I know in some of the more well-known school shootings, some of the shooters were taking medication. However on one hand, teens wouldn't be on medication if they weren't already struggling with something.
 
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ilovewings said:
I would think her case will be appealed --they will most probably allege ineffective counsel- I didn't watch the trial, but if her defense was as bad as some of you say it is, it is likely to be appealed on that basis.
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I think having an attorney who presents your defense poorly isn't close to enough of a reason to successfully argue ineffective counsel. You aren't entitled to the best possible defense you can get.

I think she could try to appeal, but if her attorney was there every day, awake, arguing her case, IMO it's going to be unlikely she wins an appeal, even if many people think the attorney did a lackluster job.
(Amateur opinion only.)
 
ChatteringBirds said:
I think having an attorney who presents your defense poorly isn't close to enough of a reason to successfully argue ineffective counsel. You aren't entitled to the best possible defense you can get.

I think she could try to appeal, but if her attorney was there every day, awake, arguing her case, IMO it's going to be unlikely she wins an appeal, even if many people think the attorney did a lackluster job.
(Amateur opinion only.)
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The Sixth Amendment does safeguard the defendant’s right to faithful and effective counsel, though. The appellate court judges would use their own discretion and interpretation on appeal:

IMG_5210.jpeg


https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-06/15-effective-assistance-of-counsel.html#:~:text=Additionally%2C%20the%20Sixth%20Amendment's%20right,brought%20about%20the%20defective%20representation.
 
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