My thoughts

[scandi]

If you folks REALLY want to see how the LE system DOESN'T work I suggest you Google a Capozzi/Buffalo/murder. It will also tell you how it DID work. It made me proud that I was once a police officer. It is really an incredible story that will shine a light on how investigations can go astray, and when they are found to have gone astray the persons responsible will do anything to hide it.

If you know how something works internally you have a better chance of solving a problem.

Hi Hankshaw, When it seems like there is so much possible Circumstantial evidence against a person, is there any way to rule that person out completely? Like with CPH, if there was a way to do this, we could open our minds to looking elsewhere. Right?

Following that thought I post a comment by Fred & Edna. We have discussed somewhere on this site in the last day how info might come out that is not thru the MSM but rather from locals. I found this a fascinating read. Should we take this as Circ evidence. It seems too much to simply dismiss IMO:


Originally Posted by fred&edna View Post #362, The Last Happy Hour
I concur.

CPH has quite a questionable past (professionally and personally) and this, along with his involvement in this case, and the location of SGs pants, shoes, etc. in his "back yard" makes it appear that he is to blame for some nefarious action/s.

I certainly hope the civil case against him reveals more info. But, something that puzzles me... Ray seems to be basing his case on the telephone conversation between MG and CPH (specifically what CPH told MG regarding his care and/or treatment of SG). Then, during the Q&A with reporters Ray talks about bizarre stories CPH has told others in the past and paints him as a storyteller (transcript of what I heard is below). To me it seems odd to base a case on someone you are portraying as a liar. I mean, if he has a history of lying then it's an easy leap to believe he was lying to MG on the phone. Thus just proving he is a liar not a killer. Is this just a search for truth and to possibly cause Dr H to lose his med license/keep him from treating anyone in the future?

MY transcript of the Q&A:
"Dr. Hackett has told many bizarre stories about Dr. Hackett's role as a doctor at his home in Oak Beach. He has claimed to Suffolk County, when he worked as the head of the emergency medical services, that he would perform operations on peoples' fingers, reattaching them on his kitchen table in Oak Beach. He also also claimed he has treated heart patients' on his kitchen table in Oak Beach and saved their lives from heart attacks in that home. He apparently thinks that he can perform these kinds of amazing services in his home so we're not surprised at all that he made claim he did about Shannon. You know Dr. Hackett is going to be some character once we get into what he really did do through this complaint."


Sorry for this long post, I guess I had a lot I wanted to say/ask
"
It sure is good to have you here ;} I'll have to go read about the Capozzi/Buffalo murder.

 

[Justiceforever]

I agree once again that CPH (The Happy Hour Theory) and SG has been a BIG distraction to GB4 and MV and AC4. If it is going to continue to be a hot topic (despite efforts of myself and others to bump other threads) then lets discuss it in it's entirety. Otherwise let's move past SG and CPH and solve these other murders. Unless you ALL think that CPH killed SG, GB4, AC4and MV.

Then let's keep disscussing it...preferably not.

All due respect to SG and her family. SG is a mystery unto herself, that I personally don't believe has anything to do with murder.

UNLESS MP did it...which I am not cinvinced of anymore.

 

[hawkshaw]

LINKS? All they really are is what someone else wrote. Who says they know what they are talking about. If I knew how to put a link on the board I would. But, again, it is only something what someone else wrote.

 

[scandi]

I agree once again that CPH (The Happy Hour Theory) and SG has been a BIG distraction to GB4 and MV and AC4. If it is going to continue to be a hot topic (despite efforts of myself and others to bump other threads) then lets discuss it in it's entirety. Otherwise let's move past SG and CPH and solve these other murders. Unless you ALL think that CPH killed SG, GB4, AC4and MV.

Then let's keep disscussing it...preferably not.

All due respect to SG and her family. SG is a mystery unto herself, that I personally don't believe has anything to do with murder.

UNLESS MP did it...which I am not cinvinced of anymore.

Hi there Justiceforever, That sounds like a good plan to separate the cases like you say except in my thinking they are all related by a degree of location as to the finding of the bodies. That is a big connection.

With this Dr's background, on a different thread it would be very interesting to make a list of all his suspicious points. If it comes out he is a suspect in SG's murder, I think he could have murdered all of them. Her certainly has been looked at by the local detectives.


SG could have been a new experience for him, evolving from his previous MO. What if he partied with her in the presence of others and he had never done that before with other girls. It would be a whole new experience for him. That is not a fact but just an examplary thought.

 

[scandi]

LINKS? All they really are is what someone else wrote. Who says they know what they are talking about. If I knew how to put a link on the board I would. But, again, it is only something what someone else wrote.

It is just TOS here Hawkshaw. I think they figure if the MSM has picked up a name there must be some credibility to make it public. That gives a basis for discussion here. There has to be a cut off point, right? :waitasec:

 

[hawkshaw]

Hi Hankshaw, When it seems like there is so much possible Circumstantial evidence against a person, is there any way to rule that person out completely? Like with CPH, if there was a way to do this, we could open our minds to looking elsewhere. Right?

Following that thought I post a comment by Fred & Edna. We have discussed somewhere on this site in the last day how info might come out that is not thru the MSM but rather from locals. I found this a fascinating read. Should we take this as Circ evidence. It seems too much to simply dismiss IMO:


Originally Posted by fred&edna View Post #362, The Last Happy Hour
I concur.

How could any responsible investigator eliminate JB as a POI so soon into the investigation? The ONLY way they could do that is if they KNEW who the killer is. I am not saying JB did it, I am saying he CAN'T be eliminated until such time conclusive evidence tells us otherwise. It is just all BS covering up what may have really happened at Oak Beach over the years.

CPH has quite a questionable past (professionally and personally) and this, along with his involvement in this case, and the location of SGs pants, shoes, etc. in his "back yard" makes it appear that he is to blame for some nefarious action/s.

I certainly hope the civil case against him reveals more info. But, something that puzzles me... Ray seems to be basing his case on the telephone conversation between MG and CPH (specifically what CPH told MG regarding his care and/or treatment of SG). Then, during the Q&A with reporters Ray talks about bizarre stories CPH has told others in the past and paints him as a storyteller (transcript of what I heard is below). To me it seems odd to base a case on someone you are portraying as a liar. I mean, if he has a history of lying then it's an easy leap to believe he was lying to MG on the phone. Thus just proving he is a liar not a killer. Is this just a search for truth and to possibly cause Dr H to lose his med license/keep him from treating anyone in the future?

MY transcript of the Q&A:
"Dr. Hackett has told many bizarre stories about Dr. Hackett's role as a doctor at his home in Oak Beach. He has claimed to Suffolk County, when he worked as the head of the emergency medical services, that he would perform operations on peoples' fingers, reattaching them on his kitchen table in Oak Beach. He also also claimed he has treated heart patients' on his kitchen table in Oak Beach and saved their lives from heart attacks in that home. He apparently thinks that he can perform these kinds of amazing services in his home so we're not surprised at all that he made claim he did about Shannon. You know Dr. Hackett is going to be some character once we get into what he really did do through this complaint."


Sorry for this long post, I guess I had a lot I wanted to say/ask
"
It sure is good to have you here ;} I'll have to go read about the Capozzi/Buffalo murder.

How could any responsible investigator eliminate JB as a POI so soon into the investigation? The ONLY way they could do that is if they KNEW who the killer is. I am not saying JB did it, I am saying he CAN'T be eliminated until such time conclusive evidence tells us otherwise. It is just all BS covering up what may have really happened at Oak Beach over the years.

 

[Justiceforever]

Hi there Justiceforever, That sounds like a good plan to separate the cases like you say except in my thinking they are all related by a degree of location as to the finding of the bodies. That is a big connection.

With this Dr's background, on a different thread it would be very interesting to make a list of all his suspicious points. If it comes out he is a suspect in SG's murder, I think he could have murdered all of them. Her certainly has been looked at by the local detectives.


SG could have been a new experience for him, evolving from his previous MO. What if he partied with her in the presence of others and he had never done that before with other girls. It would be a whole new experience for him. That is not a fact but just an examplary thought.

I honestly think the confusion lies in the melding of at least two...maybe three different murderers into one forum. MV (IMHO) has nothing to do with SG or GB4. GB4 (IMHO) MAY have something to do with AC4...maybe not. The confusion stems from linking all these murders together and blaming them all on the unfortunate Doc!

 

[scandi]

How could any responsible investigator eliminate JB as a POI so soon into the investigation? The ONLY way they could do that is if they KNEW who the killer is. I am not saying JB did it, I am saying he CAN'T be eliminated until such time conclusive evidence tells us otherwise. It is just all BS covering up what may have really happened at Oak Beach over the years.

My Thoughts mirror yours. You know cops can lie if it is to further an investigation. {:what:} lol

I think we might learn there were several locals partying together that early morning - neighbors who knew each other well. So it doesn't mean JB is off the hook but maybe aware of what really happened and possibly not the one who killed her. He didn't save Shannon from her fears, did he, which any man would have if he didn't have an ulterior motive for her being there.

That could mean there were the other men the neighborhood connected to the investigation like the drifter, CPH and even GC who might have all been at the party together with Shannon's pimp MP. I always thought it odd
GC was up at that time of the morning and had maybe just recently got home. MP told Colletti he had been at a party at a neighbor's with this girl. What if they were all there each for there own reason? To have the truth come out proving how she was killed and by who, it could be better to let the public think these guys are off the hook. LE might learn more this way as they keep on investigating. Just a thought.

 

[scandi]

I honestly think the confusion lies in the melding of at least two...maybe three different murderers into one forum. MV (IMHO) has nothing to do with SG or GB4. GB4 (IMHO) MAY have something to do with AC4...maybe not. The confusion stems from linking all these murders together and blaming them all on the unfortunate Doc!

I understand what you are saying. My reasons to even think they could be connected deal with things like: serial killers escalate and change in their MO's as time goes on, change their areas of operation and can strike out at unexpected times which is talked about in profiling. It is confusing.

There is something LE has not put together yet to find whoever murdered these people.

 

[LISleuth]

Ray seems to be basing his case on the telephone conversation between MG and CPH (specifically what CPH told MG regarding his care and/or treatment of SG). Then, during the Q&A with reporters Ray talks about bizarre stories CPH has told others in the past and paints him as a storyteller (transcript of what I heard is below). To me it seems odd to base a case on someone you are portraying as a liar. I mean, if he has a history of lying then it's an easy leap to believe he was lying to MG on the phone. Thus just proving he is a liar not a killer.

(I'm not sure I've done the quote properly but the quote of Fred & Edna was posted by Scandi & my reference is to what Scandi quoted.)

He may very well have been lying to MG on the phone. But even if he was lying on the phone, the fact is he called MG, denied calling her, denied knowing anything about her daughter, then 1 year later admits to calling her when his phone records are divulged. How would he have called MG or known her number for that initial call if he knew nothing of SG? And her clothes end up in his back yard? And her remains 1/4 mile behind his home?

 

[scandi]

(I'm not sure I've done the quote properly but the quote of Fred & Edna was posted by Scandi & my reference is to what Scandi quoted.)

He may very well have been lying to MG on the phone. But even if he was lying on the phone, the fact is he called MG, denied calling her, denied knowing anything about her daughter, then 1 year later admits to calling her when his phone records are divulged. How would he have called MG or known her number for that initial call if he knew nothing of SG? And her clothes end up in his back yard? And her remains 1/4 mile behind his home?

Point well taken LISleuth. I would call that Circumstantial Evidence wouldn't you?

 

[deedee21]

I just read the above post. The word BIZARRE does not mean liar. Therefore, he was not portrayed as one. If the information JR received is true, then it would be consistant with what MG claims he said. If its all true, then you can describe his actions as bizarre. With that said,I dont know if any of the allegations are true.

 

[fred&edna]

This is the "my thoughts" thread. You are reading my post "out of context". Please read it on the original thread in its' entirety and you will get a much more complete picture of what I posted. If you have additional questions... ask me there, please.

** I've been admonished more than once for posting "off topic" on a thread... so, I'm trying to prevent it happening again.

 

[bessie]

Well, that IS what you guys do, of course...but like you said, you can't be everywhere all at once. What I was thinking when I said that was that maybe we could have some hard and fast rules wrt a fact thread. Any facts posted must be supported by a msm link. No linkee, no postee.

Just my thoughts.

Those are good thoughts. It's a point that has to be reinforced because lately I've noticed links aren't being provided as they should, and that ain't gonna fly.

This is a fact-based discussion board. Any theory, argument, or opinion submitted for discussion must have a relevant, factual basis. For our puurposes, MSM is the standard for "proof". Obviously, MSM doesn't always get it right, and we shouldn't rely just on what some reporter said. Direct quotations from LE, first parties, and witnesses are the things to look for. In addition, original source documents are ideal if they're available. Just use common sense when posting them. It's almost always best to link to public records rather than uploading them into your posts. And if you can't link to them, you can't reference them. That applies to pay-per-view MSM articles, as well. If you run into trouble, ask a mod to help you out. We might know of a solution.

Hawk, pasting a url into a post is not that difficult. lol But you're not alone in being technically challenged. And others have difficulty posting links from cell phones and tablets. In those cases, if enough information is provided that anyone reading could easily locate the source through a google search, I'll let it stand. Usually the title of the publication, date, page number and/or title of the article will suffice.

 

[deedee21]

Who knows what went on there that night. She hid under GC boat. She ran away when MP pulled up. She could have hid under another boat or anywhere else for that matter. MP could have drove right passed her on his way back to Jersey. She sought help from the neighbors. Someone let her in or she backtracked it to Brewers.

 

[shadowraiths]

How could any responsible investigator eliminate JB as a POI so soon into the investigation?

My guess is that it had to do with Shannan allegedly naming someone other than JB in her 911 call ( link ). Go to approx the 2:17 mark, where they're interviewing the family. It's right after the interview. Transcribed, as follows.

Gilbert's family says on that night Shannan met with a man she met on Craigslist at the beach in Long Island. They say police have talked to the man and he has taken a lie detector test. It is not the man Shannan named as her attacker.​

 

[LINative13]

See what I mean

 

[Vivalor]

My Thoughts mirror yours. You know cops can lie if it is to further an investigation. {:what:} lol

I think we might learn there were several locals partying together that early morning - neighbors who knew each other well. So it doesn't mean JB is off the hook but maybe aware of what really happened and possibly not the one who killed her. He didn't save Shannon from her fears, did he, which any man would have if he didn't have an ulterior motive for her being there.

That could mean there were the other men the neighborhood connected to the investigation like the drifter, CPH and even GC who might have all been at the party together with Shannon's pimp MP. I always thought it odd
GC was up at that time of the morning and had maybe just recently got home. MP told Colletti he had been at a party at a neighbor's with this girl. What if they were all there each for there own reason? To have the truth come out proving how she was killed and by who, it could be better to let the public think these guys are off the hook. LE might learn more this way as they keep on investigating. Just a thought.

I don't think it's odd at all the GC was up at 5 AM. I actually thought it was normal that he out of anyone was up at that time. It is not uncommon for older people to get up at the crack of dawn.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't think it's odd at all the GC was up at 5 AM. I actually thought it was normal that he out of anyone was up at that time. It is not uncommon for older people to get up at the crack of dawn.

He was getting ready to go to an antique car show or something. Makes perfect sense to me that he would be up that early, getting ready to leave.

By the way, I'm up at 5 am every morning. And if anyone implies that I'm old...:slapfight:


:giggle:

 

[Just K]

Hell, sometimes I go to bed at 5:00 AM
Almost every time I look out the window, between 1:00AM and 4:00 AM...I am surprised by something I see. As I pass the window, I'll look out. Sometimes a noise will cause me to look. Last night, I saw something out of place. I let my eyes adjust to the light and counted SEVEN deer in a grassy area across the street. That was an interesting surprise. A year or so ago, it wasn't so quaint. I was keeping track of two compact cars that would park facing opposite directions. They would each park and one would go to the other car, retrieve a small cardboard box, cross the street and put said box in his trunk. The first car would drive away and the second would wait about 30 seconds and then make a u-turn and leave. This went on over a few weeks, I reported it and it stopped. For some reason, I came to believe it was an undercover situation. Sometimes, an odd pattern of lights will reflect on the wall and that was how I came to keep track of those two cars.

GC was up and he is likely the type to know what goes on in the wee hours of the night/morning. From every overhead shot available, it looks like GC has the one house where he can see the comings and goings of EVERYONE inside the OB gate. IF he had a security camera we would know almost everything.

His wife has been far too quite. IMO, of course.