Mysterious Message on the Door

[defense101]

I was doing some painting today, touching up some decorative ironwork on the door of my house. I was using a small can of black exterior latex paint and an artist's paintbrush, slightly smaller than the one found at RZ's death scene.

I didn't get any paint on myself, only a small amount on my hands. At one point, I had too much paint on the brush and it dripped as I was painting. It landed on the porch in front of the door. It dawned on me that I was painting in the same manner someone had painted on the door to RZ's death room.

I looked at my posture as I painted and realized that most people, using that kind of brush and painting just above eye level, would probably not get paint on their chest. They would have to be painting with a lot of paint and in a wild manner to get it on their neck, chest or midsection. Any drips would fall straight to the floor in front of the door.

I decided to see what posture I would need to be in for paint to drip or splash on my chest. I found I had to be right up next to the door, with my nose practically touching the surface to get my chest close enough for paint to drip there. RZ wouldn't likely have done that, nor would she have brough the paintbrush near her face or mouth - the only other likely scenario for getting paint on her chest.

I also noticed the small amount of paint I got on my hands was on the inside of my hand, on the palm and fingers, not on the back of my hand. If you view RZ's death photos in the photo sticky link above, you'll see she had paint mostly on the back of her hand.

Considering the paint used on the door was a thicker type of artist's paint from a tube vs. the thinner stuff I was using, I don't see how that could have landed on her chest. And if the paint was flying around, why didn't some of it land on the floor below the door, the most likely place for drips.

I'm kind of tired from a lot of chores today, but will check the details about the paint and death scene in a little bit. It might be worthwhile to try duplicating the message painting scenario.

ETA: The Zahau family attorney's statement also said there was black paint on the rope tied around RZ's neck. Please explain how someone, in the nude, with a rope tied to the bed on one end and wrapped around their neck gagging them and a tshirt gag wrapped on top of that goes over to the door and paints a farewell message before tying their feet and hands, then jumping off the balcony.

Well done BettyP, as well if it was all over her why was it not all over the gag, you know why IMO two people.

 

[bourne]

I was doing some painting today, touching up some decorative ironwork on the door of my house. I was using a small can of black exterior latex paint and an artist's paintbrush, slightly smaller than the one found at RZ's death scene.

I didn't get any paint on myself, only a small amount on my hands. At one point, I had too much paint on the brush and it dripped as I was painting. It landed on the porch in front of the door. It dawned on me that I was painting in the same manner someone had painted on the door to RZ's death room.

I looked at my posture as I painted and realized that most people, using that kind of brush and painting just above eye level, would probably not get paint on their chest. They would have to be painting with a lot of paint and in a wild manner to get it on their neck, chest or midsection. Any drips would fall straight to the floor in front of the door.

I decided to see what posture I would need to be in for paint to drip or splash on my chest. I found I had to be right up next to the door, with my nose practically touching the surface to get my chest close enough for paint to drip there. RZ wouldn't likely have done that, nor would she have brough the paintbrush near her face or mouth - the only other likely scenario for getting paint on her chest.

I also noticed the small amount of paint I got on my hands was on the inside of my hand, on the palm and fingers, not on the back of my hand. If you view RZ's death photos in the photo sticky link above, you'll see she had paint mostly on the back of her hand.

Considering the paint used on the door was a thicker type of artist's paint from a tube vs. the thinner stuff I was using, I don't see how that could have landed on her chest. And if the paint was flying around, why didn't some of it land on the floor below the door, the most likely place for drips.

I'm kind of tired from a lot of chores today, but will check the details about the paint and death scene in a little bit. It might be worthwhile to try duplicating the message painting scenario.

ETA: The Zahau family attorney's statement also said there was black paint on the rope tied around RZ's neck. Please explain how someone, in the nude, with a rope tied to the bed on one end and wrapped around their neck gagging them and a tshirt gag wrapped on top of that goes over to the door and paints a farewell message before tying their feet and hands, then jumping off the balcony.

Betty P, you've made valid points and I greatly appreciate you valiant effort at "experimenting" with the painting on a door. I also agree that the paint on Rebecca was "staged" by her murderer(s). However, just as we can't use the SDLE female officer's demo in tying her hands behind her back to conclude that Rebecca had bound her own hands behind her back, we cannot exactly use you to demonstrate what Rebecca could or could not do, or what would or would not have happened had Rebecca engaged in the same painting activities that you did, or that she even engaged in such a paint job. Each human being is unique and in that sense, it's impossible to conclude how/what/when/if, etc. would have happened to Rebecca had she done the same activity you did. Even identical twins with same DNA possess different behaviors/mannerisms given similar circumstances.

Having said that though, we can *estimate* what might have happened with Rebecca to the best of our abilities. But we should point out the physical differences between you and Rebecca when offering you as a representative of what might have happened to Rebecca.

E.g., are you and Rebecca of about the same physical size in height, weight, etc.? Are you as fully endowed in the chest area as Rebecca (given that her first autopsy by the SD ME reported that it was "obvious" she had breast implants which for the life of me, I don't know why a doctor would use that specific nonmedical term of "obvious" instead of simply stating there were medical signs of surgery having been performed on her breasts. How did he know she didn't have cancer or had a tumor removed from her chest and had reconstructive surgery? Did he even read her medical history before performing his autopsy or did he just naturally *assumed* certain things about Rebecca or did a POI such as D/N/A/J plant those ideas in SDLE's head when they came to identify her body at the crime scene or when they were interviewed)?

IMO again I believe all the black paint on Rebecca was smeared on her body by the murderers. However, I can see a murderer thinking, well, Rebecca has those large implants, so I'm going to mock her by smearing black paint on both of them, and also smear some on her neck and the rope and parts of her fingers/hands to make it appear as if Rebecca was such a klutz that she'd drip drop the paint all over herself. Also if someone is large-chested, I can perhaps see paint dripping off the brush or door at some point onto their chest area if they were using an unusually LARGE amount of paint on the paintbrush (like an intoxicated murderer might have). I think that is what the murderer(s) wanted some gullible peeps like SDLE to believe. But as you said, the chances of that happening are virtually nil compared to dripping paint onto the much larger surface areas of the FLOOR.

Re: paint on the rope around Rebecca's neck. Again I think the murderer(s) smeared the black paint there to "stage" the alleged suicide. However, if another person who was not mentally healthy like Rebecca committed suicide, I could see that mentally disturbed person painting the message on the door first and then doing the rope binding, t-shirt gagging, etc. after. And that the mentally ill person did not the rope binding, etc. before the paint had dried on their hands.

But again, we're talking specifically about Rebecca. And her mental history is such that there leaves NO room for speculation that she did any of the door painting or rope binding, noose, t-shirt gag, etc. because she had NEVER in her entire 32 years of life suffered ANY depression nor did she ever contemplate or carry out any form of suicide attempt or rope-binding on herself/others, nor gagging, etc. So to me, it is OBVIOUS that Rebecca did NOT do any of these humiliating things to herself. It is equally obvious to me that someone else, i.e., her MURDERER(S), did them to torture, embarrass/mock, and hang Rebecca.

 

[bourne]

Or a certain someone who was hyped up on Adderall...........

Respectfully, I don't think Adam wrote that message on the door. Somehow the third person "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER" doesn't scream male painter to me.

Rather, it screams spiteful jealous ex-wife Dina throwing Rebecca's tortured hanging death into Jonah's face as in "Can YOU JONAH save your Asian Princess Rebecca now?!!!!Q!@#&$##^&**"-- a hateful ex-wife who sought revenge on hubby who left her for younger, more beautiful woman who even had the audacity (in the ex-wife's mind) to try to save her one and only son Maxie with CPR which ex-wife later continuously brings up in publicity tours and PR interviews that Rebecca allegedly never performed (according to ex-wife Dina).

Any which way you look at this door message, IMO, it was PAINTED AS A TAUNT to Jonah BY THE EX-WIFE Dina.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Respectfully, I don't think Adam wrote that message on the door. Somehow the third person "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER" doesn't scream male painter to me.

Rather, it screams spiteful jealous ex-wife Dina throwing Rebecca's tortured hanging death into Jonah's face as in "Can YOU JONAH save your Asian Princess Rebecca now?!!!!Q!@#&$##^&**"-- a hateful ex-wife who sought revenge on hubby who left her for younger, more beautiful woman who even had the audacity (in the ex-wife's mind) to try to save her one and only son Maxie with CPR which ex-wife later continuously brings up in publicity tours and PR interviews that Rebecca allegedly never performed (according to ex-wife Dina).

Any which way you look at this door message, IMO, it was PAINTED AS A TAUNT to Jonah BY THE EX-WIFE Dina.

ITA, Bourne. The message writer sounds female (but not RZ, imho). It is a rhetorical message full of sarcasm.
No one saved him (Max) and no one saved her (Rebecca).
It is not a very clever message to leave behind as it is way too obvious and a "tell" as they say in Poker.

 

[Inparadise]

Respectfully, I don't think Adam wrote that message on the door. Somehow the third person "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER" doesn't scream male painter to me.

Rather, it screams spiteful jealous ex-wife Dina throwing Rebecca's tortured hanging death into Jonah's face as in "Can YOU JONAH save your Asian Princess Rebecca now?!!!!Q!@#&$##^&**"-- a hateful ex-wife who sought revenge on hubby who left her for younger, more beautiful woman who even had the audacity (in the ex-wife's mind) to try to save her one and only son Maxie with CPR which ex-wife later continuously brings up in publicity tours and PR interviews that Rebecca allegedly never performed (according to ex-wife Dina).

Any which way you look at this door message, IMO, it was PAINTED AS A TAUNT to Jonah BY THE EX-WIFE Dina.

BINGO.......we have a winner!

 

[coastal]

(Adam was on Ambien.)

 

[*Lash*]

The reiterated statement by Dina and Nina that Rebecca did not give Max CPR, imo is very telling. Someone definitely told Dina that Rebecca gave Max CPR. In my opinion, the only person close who could have known would be Jonah. I believe Jonah may have defended Rebecca as Dina was trash talking RZ. Another possibility could be the doctor questioning CPR and Jonah telling the doctor RZ gave Max CPR. Whichever or whatever was said, the message on the door coincides with Max and the reiterated CPR statement. I tend to believe the message was written by a parent, Jonah or Dina. In my opinion, Adam did not write the message. The message would leave a window for Jonah to be suspected as the author. It doesn't fit the acting supportive brother. Imo, the message only makes sense coming from Jonah or Dina. The use of the word "you" was directed towards a particular person. Which I believe eliminates Jonah as the messenger. If it was written "can anyone save her" it would fit the suicide theory, as a suicidal person is likely feeling sorry for themselves and imo selfishly only thinking of themselves.

 

[DeDee]

The reiterated statement by Dina and Nina that Rebecca did not give Max CPR, imo is very telling. Someone definitely told Dina that Rebecca gave Max CPR. In my opinion, the only person close who could have known would be Jonah. I believe Jonah may have defended Rebecca as Dina was trash talking RZ. Another possibility could be the doctor questioning CPR and Jonah telling the doctor RZ gave Max CPR. Whichever or whatever was said, the message on the door coincides with Max and the reiterated CPR statement. I tend to believe the message was written by a parent, Jonah or Dina. In my opinion, Adam did not write the message. The message would leave a window for Jonah to be suspected as the author. It doesn't fit the acting supportive brother. Imo, the message only makes sense coming from Jonah or Dina. The use of the word "you" was directed towards a particular person. Which I believe eliminates Jonah as the messenger. If it was written "can anyone save her" it would fit the suicide theory, as a suicidal person is likely feeling sorry for themselves and imo selfishly only thinking of themselves.

Unless, of course, RZ wanted to intentionally implicate others in her death. Certainly suicide is considered a selfish act; however, the shocking method of hanging herself outside in the nude clearly shows she held much disdain and contempt for others. IMHO, RZ was terrified the upcoming autopsy performed on Max would prove her involvement in MS's death and she greatly feared going to prison.

imo

 

[Carioca]

The reiterated statement by Dina and Nina that Rebecca did not give Max CPR, imo is very telling. Someone definitely told Dina that Rebecca gave Max CPR. In my opinion, the only person close who could have known would be Jonah. I believe Jonah may have defended Rebecca as Dina was trash talking RZ. Another possibility could be the doctor questioning CPR and Jonah telling the doctor RZ gave Max CPR. Whichever or whatever was said, the message on the door coincides with Max and the reiterated CPR statement. I tend to believe the message was written by a parent, Jonah or Dina. In my opinion, Adam did not write the message. The message would leave a window for Jonah to be suspected as the author. It doesn't fit the acting supportive brother. Imo, the message only makes sense coming from Jonah or Dina. The use of the word "you" was directed towards a particular person. Which I believe eliminates Jonah as the messenger. If it was written "can anyone save her" it would fit the suicide theory, as a suicidal person is likely feeling sorry for themselves and imo selfishly only thinking of themselves.

Kudos on your excellent deductive reasoning, Lash! I'd bet the farm on the parent behind door number 2 (the one that leads to the ladies' toilet).

 

[Serpico]

I don't necessarily disagree with the logic about the possible MESSAGE author. However, I still feel the original message was simple... HE SAVED
----------------------------------------------YOU SAVE
=======================================================
The other words were added later. Adam was definitely involved and for those on the fence....why would the killer(s) create the outside HANGING knowing full well that Adam was staying in the guest house and he might intervene or be witness to murder? Dina,Nina,Howard and Jonah ALL KNEW that Adam was on the premises and none of them knew he was asleep via Ambien.

 

[Carioca]

I don't necessarily disagree with the logic about the possible MESSAGE author. However, I still feel the original message was simple... HE SAVED
----------------------------------------------YOU SAVE
=======================================================
The other words were added later. Adam was definitely involved and for those on the fence....why would the killer(s) create the outside HANGING knowing full well that Adam was staying in the guest house and he might intervene or be witness to murder? Dina,Nina,Howard and Jonah ALL KNEW that Adam was on the premises and none of them knew he was asleep via Ambien.

BBM Absolutely right Serpico, and excellent point.
As to the original message being HE SAVED - YOU SAVE, who is "HE" and who is "YOU"? Maybe the YOU is LE?? Just throwing out a guess...

 

[*Lash*]

I don't necessarily disagree with the logic about the possible MESSAGE author. However, I still feel the original message was simple... HE SAVED
----------------------------------------------YOU SAVE
=======================================================
The other words were added later. Adam was definitely involved and for those on the fence....why would the killer(s) create the outside HANGING knowing full well that Adam was staying in the guest house and he might intervene or be witness to murder? Dina,Nina,Howard and Jonah ALL KNEW that Adam was on the premises and none of them knew he was asleep via Ambien.

Hi Serpico!

I am definitely not on the fence concerning AS. His text message to Jonah to "notify" his brother that Rebecca killed herself was all it took for me to fall off the fence. I just don't think Adam painted the message on the door, at least not the final message that LE found and destroyed rather quickly.

 

[Nom de plume]

IIRC, didn't AS volunteer the info that he was on Ambien? How convenient! (Spoken in the voice of SNL's "The Church Lady") Or if you prefer, "I know nutink!" ala Shultz on Hogan's Heroes.

Funny, well ok not ha ha funny, buy why couldn't AS hear the "HELP" scream others heard? Must have been one heck of a dose of Ambien!

 

[Ausgirl]

I'm just flabbergasted that anyone could look at that message and see 'suicide note' - I really am.

It's clearly a taunt of some kind. Not even written in the first person. "She" not "I". I have never heard of a suicide note written in third person, ever.

Throw in a highly questionable "suicide" scene - self-binding and gagging, really? - and it just becomes ridiculous in the extreme. I feel like it's emperor's new clothes, you know? How can it be seen as anything -but- murder? How?

Just my opinion.

 

[K_Z]

Unless, of course, RZ wanted to intentionally implicate others in her death. Certainly suicide is considered a selfish act; however, the shocking method of hanging herself outside in the nude clearly shows she held much disdain and contempt for others. IMHO, RZ was terrified the upcoming autopsy performed on Max would prove her involvement in MS's death and she greatly feared going to prison.

imo

BBM.

No, I strongly disagree with your conclusion that nudity equals "disdain and contempt for others." I find your conclusion to be not only puzzling, but more than a little tinged with some irrational anger toward Rebecca, which is also puzzling.

Can you explain how you arrived at that conclusion? Because that is "clearly" not what the scientific psychological literature says about nudity and suicide.

It's okay if it is just your personal opinion that you think somehow her nude death indicates contempt and disdain-- and then perhaps I'd have to agree with you there. I definitely think the circumstances of Rebecca's death indicate "contempt and disdain" for Rebecca, by her killer/s.

In fact, I can't find a single scholarly source to agree with your conclusions, that "nudity equals disdain and contempt" in the context of suicide. Typically nude suicide is an expression of shame and guilt. So I find it immensely interesting that you say that you think a nude suicide would indicate "disdain and contempt." That isn't logical. It also makes me wonder why the "obvious" explanation of shame and guilt isn't what occurred to you? I wonder why.

And, come to think of it, it also reinforces my ideas about posts that support suicide. These posts never seem to follow the logical, rational, or scientific psychological theories. Always "wild" ideas, soaked in thinly veiled, seething anger and disdain, always needing to get in a "demeaning dig" at Rebecca. Kind of out of proportion to the subject matter, KWIM? JMO, IMO, moo.

And she was "terrified" of the upcoming autopsy on Max, so naturally that equals contempt and disdain, and therefore nudity?? There is not a single molecule of any logic or science tying these statements together. Flight of ideas, IMO. Or something else.

 

[Betty P]

(Adam was on Ambien.)

Adam was allegedly on Ambien. Since no blood tests were taken, we have to take him at his word.

Actually, saying you took a sleeping pill gives you a good excuse for not hearing a murder/attack that took place right outside your door.

ETA: I'm of the same opinion when it comes to JS's voicemail to RZ's phone that supposedly prompted her suicide. There is no proof we've seen that such a message was left on RZ's phone, nor is there any proof that anyone retrieved and deleted it. None.

 

[DeDee]

BBM.

No, I strongly disagree with your conclusion that nudity equals "disdain and contempt for others." I find your conclusion to be not only puzzling, but more than a little tinged with some irrational anger toward Rebecca, which is also puzzling.

Can you explain how you arrived at that conclusion? Because that is "clearly" not what the scientific psychological literature says about nudity and suicide.

It's okay if it is just your personal opinion that you think somehow her nude death indicates contempt and disdain-- and then perhaps I'd have to agree with you there. I definitely think the circumstances of Rebecca's death indicate "contempt and disdain" for Rebecca, by her killer/s.

In fact, I can't find a single scholarly source to agree with your conclusions, that "nudity equals disdain and contempt" in the context of suicide. Typically nude suicide is an expression of shame and guilt. So I find it immensely interesting that you say that you think a nude suicide would indicate "disdain and contempt." That isn't logical. It also makes me wonder why the "obvious" explanation of shame and guilt isn't what occurred to you? I wonder why.

And, come to think of it, it also reinforces my ideas about posts that support suicide. These posts never seem to follow the logical, rational, or scientific psychological theories. Always "wild" ideas, soaked in thinly veiled, seething anger and disdain, always needing to get in a "demeaning dig" at Rebecca. Kind of out of proportion to the subject matter, KWIM? JMO, IMO, moo.

And she was "terrified" of the upcoming autopsy on Max, so naturally that equals contempt and disdain, and therefore nudity?? There is not a single molecule of any logic or science tying these statements together. Flight of ideas, IMO. Or something else.

You, K_Z, are intentionally taking my words out of context and mixing them around in an apparent effort to discredit.

I wrote: the shocking method of hanging herself outside in the nude clearly shows she held much disdain and contempt for others.

There has never been one documented case where a woman hung herself outdoors in the nude. Ever. So, there goes your psychological theories. It was her "wild" idea, not mine. With her chosen method of suicidal exit, she knew the media attention it would garner would besmirch and embarrass the Shacknai's. She made certain that she left an indelible mark on the Shacknai's lives forever.

Her terror of Max's death and/or autopsy led to her premeditated suicide not to her disdain and contempt.

To explain her contempt and disdain, I hypothesize one reason was b/c she was not engaged to marry JS due to her unfriendly relationship with his teenaged children whom he obviously deeply adores. Another reason was b/c the ex-wife, DS, placed controlling restrictions, although, sadly, not enough, on RZ's movements when Maxie was around her.

 

[Simply Caustic]

You, K_Z, are intentionally taking my words out of context and mixing them around in an apparent effort to discredit.



There has never been one documented case where a woman hung herself outdoors in the nude. Ever. So, there goes your psychological theories. It was her "wild" idea, not mine. With her chosen method of suicidal exit, she knew the media attention it would garner would besmirch and embarrass the Shacknai's. She made certain that she left an indelible mark on the Shacknai's lives forever.

Her terror of Max's death and/or autopsy led to her premeditated suicide not to her disdain and contempt.

To explain her contempt and disdain, I hypothesize one reason was b/c she was not engaged to marry JS due to her unfriendly relationship with his teenaged children whom he obviously deeply adores. Another reason was b/c the ex-wife, DS, placed controlling restrictions, although, sadly, not enough, on RZ's movements when Maxie was around her.

The above portion bolded by me.

Respectfully...KZ neither took your words out of context, nor mixed them around (in an apparent effort to discredit.)

My opinion only, based upon the posts in question, and not on the merits of the opinions stated in either post.

 

[*Lash*]

BBM.

No, I strongly disagree with your conclusion that nudity equals "disdain and contempt for others." I find your conclusion to be not only puzzling, but more than a little tinged with some irrational anger toward Rebecca, which is also puzzling.

Can you explain how you arrived at that conclusion? Because that is "clearly" not what the scientific psychological literature says about nudity and suicide.

It's okay if it is just your personal opinion that you think somehow her nude death indicates contempt and disdain-- and then perhaps I'd have to agree with you there. I definitely think the circumstances of Rebecca's death indicate "contempt and disdain" for Rebecca, by her killer/s.

In fact, I can't find a single scholarly source to agree with your conclusions, that "nudity equals disdain and contempt" in the context of suicide. Typically nude suicide is an expression of shame and guilt. So I find it immensely interesting that you say that you think a nude suicide would indicate "disdain and contempt." That isn't logical. It also makes me wonder why the "obvious" explanation of shame and guilt isn't what occurred to you? I wonder why.

And, come to think of it, it also reinforces my ideas about posts that support suicide. These posts never seem to follow the logical, rational, or scientific psychological theories. Always "wild" ideas, soaked in thinly veiled, seething anger and disdain, always needing to get in a "demeaning dig" at Rebecca. Kind of out of proportion to the subject matter, KWIM? JMO, IMO, moo.

And she was "terrified" of the upcoming autopsy on Max, so naturally that equals contempt and disdain, and therefore nudity?? There is not a single molecule of any logic or science tying these statements together. Flight of ideas, IMO. Or something else.

I was so confused by the word choice, I literally went to Webster to make sure I hadn't lost my understanding of the words disdain and contempt. I agree, immensely interesting choice of words. In my opinion, too personal.

 

[time]

(Adam was on Ambien.)

I may be lost but I thought it was someone else, not Adam, who was said (a while back) to be taking Adderall?