Mysterious Message on the Door

[Mr Spock]

===============================================
Couldn't agree more and JS going from Dina to Rebecca is like going from the streets of Detroit to Disneyland.....maybe not the best analogy but the one that quickly came to mind

Yes that sounds about right. After watching Dina publicly this past year, and reading Howard Luber's description of Jonah's marriage to her, my best guess is your right on the money.

 

[bourne]

And this is exactly why all the evidence when it is all added up together points to one person with 2 helpers/motivated accomplices.
Dina, Nina and Adam

It was Dina and Nina who were ultimate control freaks- who had placed such "controlling restrictions" who had lost the most- all ties and reasons to be tied to Jonah.
All 3 had 3 requirements to accomplish the murder: Motive, opportunity and time.

I think you mean: Motive, opportunity and means. Opportunity encapsulates "time".

 

[*Lash*]

Respectfully snipped for relevance -

I looked at my posture as I painted and realized that most people, using that kind of brush and painting just above eye level, would probably not get paint on their chest. They would have to be painting with a lot of paint and in a wild manner to get it on their neck, chest or midsection. Any drips would fall straight to the floor in front of the door.

Awhile ago I did a test with a friend. I am 5'2 and my friend 5'8. We used pieces of paper to mimic the door panels and taped them to a door. At 5'2 I chose to write at eye level. Which is likely what Rebecca would have chosen to do. My friend at 5'8 wanted to write at eye level but because of the panels in the door, they chose the same panel I had used. The panel above mine was too high and the space between the two panels was too small. It felt natural for them to write in the same door panel I had chosen. In my opinion, I believe the person who painted the message picked that area of the door because of its symmetrical appearance.

 

[Carioca]

I have always equated the writing on the door at Spreckels with the Charles Manson murders crime scenes, where the barbaric diabolic murderers scrawled messages on the doors and the walls. Albeit their motives for murder were different (they acted upon orders of a satanic psychopath and didn't even know their victims) than in Rebecca's case where the murder was personal, the need to leave behind vengeful cryptic messages IMO is the same: fueled by hatred.
JMO

 

[*Lash*]

I have always equated the writing on the door at Spreckels with the Charles Manson murders crime scenes, where the barbaric diabolic murderers scrawled messages on the doors and the walls. Albeit their motives for murder were different (they acted upon orders of a satanic psychopath and didn't even know their victims) than in Rebecca's case where the murder was personal, the need to leave behind vengeful cryptic messages IMO is the same: fueled by hatred.
JMO

I personally believe there is another message behind what was painted on the door, like an inside story or joke. The words tell one story, but there is a deeper meaning behind why the murderer chose to write a message on a door with paint. An inside joke or story within the Shacknai and Romano families. In my opinion, several family members know why the murderer chose to write a message in this manner.

 

[Carioca]

I personally believe there is another message behind what was painted on the door, like an inside story or joke. The words tell one story, but there is a deeper meaning behind why the murderer chose to write a message on the door with paint. An inside joke or story within the Shacknai and Romano families. In my opinion, several family members know why the murderer chose to write a message in this manner.

ITA agree as to the content of the message being very personal and directed. Are you thinking the door, rather than a wall for example, was intentional and perhaps linked to an event that may have taken place previously within the household? Interesting...

 

[K_Z]

Agree with both observations above, Lash and Carioca. A rage filled scene, and an "inside message".

I never have been able to view the door message as a "suicide note". I've always believed the murderer who wrote the message intended to telegraph the results of her handiwork. To me, the message on the door was not just a bitter gloat, but also threat. As in "look what I did-- and I can take YOU down, too."

It's a murder that LOOKS like a murder, which is what the murderer intended, IMO. I never bought the idea that it was a suicide staged to look like a murder.

Quite frankly, I think the murderer was completely astonished that LE actually closed it out as a suicide. And then felt rather emboldened to hit the media circuit and the internet discussions to figuratively murder her again. Murder the only thing Rebecca had left-- murder her reputation. JMO, IMO, moooooo.....

 

[K_Z]

One more thing-- I have never been able to wrap my head around the fact that LE actually returned the DOOR to Jonah to be painted over so quickly, the door with the crucial "suicide note"!!

But 2 years later Rebecca's family has to resort to suing LE to get Rebecca's phone, camera, and computer back?? WTH??

 

[K_Z]

===============================================
Couldn't agree more and JS going from Dina to Rebecca is like going from the streets of Detroit to Disneyland.....maybe not the best analogy but the one that quickly came to mind

What a vivid analogy!! I love it!! :floorlaugh:

 

[coastal]

I personally believe there is another message behind what was painted on the door, like an inside story or joke. The words tell one story, but there is a deeper meaning behind why the murderer chose to write a message on a door with paint. An inside joke or story within the Shacknai and Romano families. In my opinion, several family members know why the murderer chose to write a message in this manner.

IIRC, InParadise said one of the teen Shacknais has a history of writing unique phrases on inside walls.

 

[*Lash*]

One more thing-- I have never been able to wrap my head around the fact that LE actually returned the DOOR to Jonah to be painted over so quickly, the door with the crucial "suicide note"!!

But 2 years later Rebecca's family has to resort to suing LE to get Rebecca's phone, camera, and computer back?? WTH??

Mind boggling isn't it? You would think repainting and returning Jonah's door would be the last thing on the minds of 15 investigators handling this case. Who ordered the door repainted and returned? I don't think anyone outside of the 15 investigators ever saw the door and message in its original condition. Correct me if I am wrong, I believe the Zahau family and their attorneys received only pictures of the door. Then a BS reason was given as to why 15 investigators from multiple agencies could not do a handwriting analysis. Why was the door evidence not preserved? Jonah could afford to just buy a new door. If you really think about it, SDSO destroyed evidence by painting the door. The door could have contained a plethora of evidence, from fingerprints to analysis of the paint and possible DNA mixed in the paint. In my opinion, there is something very hinky here. Again, returning the door should have been the last thing on the minds of these 15 investigators. So what logical reason could there be to destroy a valuable piece of evidence in a homicide investigation? Did the quickly destroyed door hold pieces of evidence that could ultimately prove Rebecca did not commit suicide?

 

[Zinn]

Agree with both observations above, Lash and Carioca. A rage filled scene, and an "inside message".

I never have been able to view the door message as a "suicide note". I've always believed the murderer who wrote the message intended to telegraph the results of her handiwork. To me, the message on the door was not just a bitter gloat, but also threat. As in "look what I did-- and I can take YOU down, too."

It's a murder that LOOKS like a murder, which is what the murderer intended, IMO. I never bought the idea that it was a suicide staged to look like a murder.

Quite frankly, I think the murderer was completely astonished that LE actually closed it out as a suicide. And then felt rather emboldened to hit the media circuit and the internet discussions to figuratively murder her again. Murder the only thing Rebecca had left-- murder her reputation. JMO, IMO, moooooo.....

I have always suspected, as someone (KZ or Lash?) said earlier, that the message was a reference to a conversation that took place in the hospital following Max's accident. IMO, the message was to ensure the person reading it understood their own actions (or words) contributed to Rebecca's death.

I do not see the message as being similar to the Manson murder messages. The only analogy I can think of is this...imagine in The Godfather, after the horse's head is placed in the bed, imagine if Brasi painted a message on the bedroom wall that said "Now let's see if Johnny gets the part!" To me, it seems the act of an abusive person who is also a compulsive over-explainer.

I'm in complete agreement about it looking like a murder and not a staged suicide or a murder that looks like a suicide or anything other than a clear murder. And the fact that Rebecca had contusions on top of her head, abrasions on her back, and appears to have died as the result of a fall over a balcony seems to be another example of the murderer(s) wanting to emphasize the connection between Max's accident and Rebecca's death.

About the door, I can't remember the source of the information about the door being returned and painted over. Has that been confirmed? I do recall hearing that in the past, but I don't recall if it was an official LE comment, a Bremner comment, a rumor or what. Can someone remind me?

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[DeDee]

I have always suspected, as someone (KZ or Lash?) said earlier, that the message was a reference to a conversation that took place in the hospital following Max's accident. IMO, the message was to ensure the person reading it understood their own actions (or words) contributed to Rebecca's death.

<respectfully snipped> To me, it seems the act of an abusive person who is also a compulsive over-explainer.

I'm in complete agreement about it looking like a murder and not a staged suicide or a murder that looks like a suicide or anything other than a clear murder. And the fact that Rebecca had contusions on top of her head, abrasions on her back, and appears to have died as the result of a fall over a balcony seems to be another example of the murderer(s) wanting to emphasize the connection between Max's accident and Rebecca's death.

<respectively snipped>

All of the above is just my opinion.

"10News learned Zahau left behind a message painted on a bedroom door which read: "She saved him, can he save her."

A source close to the investigation told 10News the message relates to the time when Jonah Shacknai was dating Zahau in Arizona. The "she saved him" part of the message refers to Shacknai leaning on her when his marriage had ended and she listened to him. The source said the "can he save her" line is a rhetorical question: could Shacknai save her from the ex-wife who had begun to meddle into their relationship."

http://www.10news.com/news/warrant-suggests-shacknai-suffocation-ag-declines-case

According to documentation, Dina was not privy to LE reports in their RZN investigation. However, JS did possess a copy of the file.

"In a five-page letter dated today to Scanlon, Dina Shacknai criticized the decision not to reopen the case. She also requested the “entire investigatory file” on Zahau’s death.

“While Jonah Shacknai received Rebecca’s file, I have been given no access to that information even though I am Maxie’s mother,” she said."

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/10/no-new-shacknai-probe-mom-wants-zahau-files/

Agree with both observations above, Lash and Carioca. A rage filled scene, and an "inside message".

I never have been able to view the door message as a "suicide note". I've always believed the murderer who wrote the message intended to telegraph the results of her handiwork. To me, the message on the door was not just a bitter gloat, but also threat. As in "look what I did-- and I can take YOU down, too."

It's a murder that LOOKS like a murder, which is what the murderer intended, IMO. I never bought the idea that it was a suicide staged to look like a murder.

Quite frankly, I think the murderer was completely astonished that LE actually closed it out as a suicide. And then felt rather emboldened to hit the media circuit and the internet discussions to figuratively murder her again. Murder the only thing Rebecca had left-- murder her reputation. JMO, IMO, moooooo.....

As explained and quoted above with a link, the "inside" message was strictly between JS & RZN.

The door belonged in a world famous mansion in the U.S. The realtors needed the original door to restore the home to its original splendor in hopes that JS would see a minimal financial loss as possible.

If Rebecca feared the results of the CPD/CPS investigation, she may be quite angry and most frustrated that she could not quickly and successfully convince others of one of her various explanations of exactly what occurred on July 11, 2011.
Perhaps the reason why the suicide happened so quickly after Maxie's fatal injuries was bc she was terrified of being interrogated by anyone; including Dina, Nina, Mary, Adam, Jonah, the doctors, the police officials. Instead of boldly facing them, she tied herself up, gagged her tongue and jumped to a certain death. What or who was she protecting and willing to die for?

imoo

 

[TorisMom003]

"10News learned Zahau left behind a message painted on a bedroom door which read: "She saved him, can he save her."

A source close to the investigation told 10News the message relates to the time when Jonah Shacknai was dating Zahau in Arizona. The "she saved him" part of the message refers to Shacknai leaning on her when his marriage had ended and she listened to him. The source said the "can he save her" line is a rhetorical question: could Shacknai save her from the ex-wife who had begun to meddle into their relationship."

http://www.10news.com/news/warrant-suggests-shacknai-suffocation-ag-declines-case

According to documentation, Dina was not privy to LE reports in their RZN investigation. However, JS did possess a copy of the file.


http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/10/no-new-shacknai-probe-mom-wants-zahau-files/




As explained and quoted above with a link, the "inside" message was strictly between JS & RZN.

The door belonged in a world famous mansion in the U.S. The realtors needed the original door to restore the home to its original splendor in hopes that JS would see a minimal financial loss as possible.

If Rebecca feared the results of the CPD/CPS investigation, she may be quite angry and most frustrated that she could not quickly and successfully convince others of one of her various explanations of exactly what occurred on July 11, 2011.
Perhaps the reason why the suicide happened so quickly after Maxie's fatal injuries was bc she was terrified of being interrogated by anyone; including Dina, Nina, Mary, Adam, Jonah, the doctors, the police officials. Instead of boldly facing them, she tied herself up, gagged her tongue and jumped to a certain death. What or who was she protecting and willing to die for?

imoo

Unfortunately for the rest of the living members of this horrible mess none of them truly know what the message means unless they themselves wrote/painted it. If the message was in fact written/painted by Rebecca then only she would know exactly what she meant and since there was no written explanation left behind she (if she actually wrote/painted it) took the meaning with her to the grave. So no matter what some "unidentified source" would like for us to believe, unless they wrote/painted the message themselves then they are simply putting forth their interpretation of the message or the interpretation of someone else about the message.

This part bothers me, makes me wonder what is behind the phrasing of it........."gagged her tongue". What exactly is that supposed to mean or imply?

MOO

 

[IQuestion]

Per your post above, Deed-ee:
The door belonged in a world famous mansion in the U.S. The realtors needed the original door to restore the home to its original splendor in hopes that JS would see a minimal financial loss as possible.
Sorry, Deed-ee...It is just a door! Not a sacred artifact, or irreplaceable item. You can pick one up at any "old" furniture store or antique mall. It's only importance, IMO is that it contained valuable clues to the mystery surrounding 2 deaths. Huntington Mansion, Hearst Castle, Getty Mansion...now those are some world famous mansions. When I googled "California Mansions for sale"....the Coronado property didn't even come up on the radar.
And per Deed-ee," Perhaps the reason why the suicide happened so quickly after Maxie's fatal injuries was bc she was terrified of being interrogated by anyone; including Dina, Nina, Mary, Adam, Jonah, the doctors, the police officials. Instead of boldly facing them, she tied herself up, gagged her tongue and jumped to a certain death. What or who was she protecting and willing to die for?"

No, I don't think so. All Rebecca would have had to say to detectives is, "I didn't see anything." What or who was she protecting and willing to die for? I don't see it that way, either. I think she was killed quickly because someone was very, very angry,
(I get that, ok) and decided to lump 20 months of anger, jealousy, resentment, vindictiveness, suspicion, and self-righteous vigilantism in to one blinding rage against Rebecca.
Since you have speculated on many thoughts and motives lately....what do you think was meant when the detective driving Rebecca and XZ to the urgent care wrote down,
"Dina's going to kill me!" What do you think Rebecca meant when she said that?
(BTW I still feel both cases need to be re-opened...)
Just my opinions and questions, thank you.

 

[bourne]

"10News learned Zahau left behind a message painted on a bedroom door which read: "She saved him, can he save her."

A source close to the investigation told 10News the message relates to the time when Jonah Shacknai was dating Zahau in Arizona. The "she saved him" part of the message refers to Shacknai leaning on her when his marriage had ended and she listened to him. The source said the "can he save her" line is a rhetorical question: could Shacknai save her from the ex-wife who had begun to meddle into their relationship."

http://www.10news.com/news/warrant-suggests-shacknai-suffocation-ag-declines-case

Snipped.

I see someone's trying to revise history with distorted, incorrect information.

No, the message painted in black on the Spreckels hanging room door was "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER".

It was not can "he" save her but can "YOU" save her. Early media reports had gotten it wrong because LE would not show the actual painted message on door to anyone. But Ann Rule got a hold of the door message from LE and posted the pic in her book on the Zahau case. Here is the picture of the actual painted words on door:

Betty P had started an entire thread on this door and provided the door image at:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9717653"]Mysterious Message on the Door - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[DeDee]

Per your post above, Deed-ee:
<snip>
Since you have speculated on many thoughts and motives lately....what do you think was meant when the detective driving Rebecca and XZ to the urgent care wrote down,
"Dina's going to kill me!" What do you think Rebecca meant when she said that?
(BTW I still feel both cases need to be re-opened...)
Just my opinions and questions, thank you.

What do I think was meant when the detective driving Rebecca and XZ to the urgent care wrote down, "Dina's going to kill me!"?

Imo, it is a planted statement similar to MS uttering the word Ocean. I believe RZN made the statement intentionally so the detective would overhear her words and make note of them bc perhaps it would be very troublesome to live with the knowledge that your neglect caused the death of a 6yo child.
Oh, that's not right. MZL stated that Rebecca did not feel she was guilty about sweet Maxie's demise. In fact, as proof, Rebecca took XZ on a shopping excursion that for obvious reasons, most likely, did not include a stop at Macy's.

 

[DeDee]

Snipped.

I see someone's trying to revise history with distorted, incorrect information.

No, the message painted in black on the Spreckels hanging room door was "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER".

It was not can "he" save her but can "YOU" save her. Early media reports had gotten it wrong because LE would not show the actual painted message on door to anyone. But Ann Rule got a hold of the door message from LE and posted the pic in her book on the Zahau case. Here is the picture of the actual painted words on door:

Betty P had started an entire thread on this door and provided the door image at:
Mysterious Message on the Door - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

An explanation by "someone close to the investigation" was offered. It was early in the investigation so perhaps the insider inserted the word "he" instead of the word "you". However, the meaning remains the same. Rebecca helped Jonah through a difficult time and he could not save her from what happened to his son Maxie.

 

[STS-135]

IIRC, InParadise said one of the teen Shacknais has a history of writing unique phrases on inside walls.

As JFK once said... Uh, well, not that I expect anything to change... So never mind... Please carry on...

 

[STS-135]

What do I think was meant when the detective driving Rebecca and XZ to the urgent care wrote down, "Dina's going to kill me!"?

Imo, it is a planted statement similar to MS uttering the word Ocean. I believe RZN made the statement intentionally so the detective would overhear her words and make note of them bc perhaps it would be very troublesome to live with the knowledge that your neglect caused the death of a 6yo child.
Oh, that's not right. MZL stated that Rebecca did not feel she was guilty about sweet Maxie's demise. In fact, as proof, Rebecca took XZ on a shopping excursion that for obvious reasons, most likely, did not include a stop at Macy's.

I think Rebecca said - in a figurative way - exactly what she was feeling at the time... "Dina is going to be fuming-mad that Maxie fell while on my watch..."

As for Maxie saying "Ocean", the dog's name, like many I also don't believe that it was possible given the extent of his injuries. But how does that translate into lying? If I tell you that my dog told me "See 'ya..." as he exhaled for the last time soon after I asked him not to wander off too far, to please wait for me, when I finally had to let him rest, would it be fair to say that my emotionally-stressed brain merely interpreted the sound in a way that somehow made sense to me at the time? Or would you simply assume that I must be lying to you in regards to what I heard? Rebecca was no doubt under duress as Maxie exhaled for the last time (on his own). If Ocean was nearby, I might've heard his name too.

Another possibility is that Ocean might've in fact been involved in some way, perhaps running between Maxie and the railing as he tried to recover control of the scooter... And, if Maxie yelled-out "Ocean!" as he lost his balance and vaulted over the banister, Rebecca could've heard the word "Ocean", remembered it, and, under such stressful circumsntances, simply been confused as to when exactly Maxie actually said it. Witnesses to tragic events are never to be trusted 100%, regardless of the circumnstances, but specially when under severe emotional duress.