Mysterious Message on the Door

[Betty P]

BBM If Rebecca's murder was unpremeditated and the painting of the cryptic message on the door was done in a panicky haste, then where did the murderer(s) get hold of all the painting tools (paintbrushes, paint tubes, etc.)?

And how did some of the paint get on the noose around RZ's throat?

 

[Mr Spock]

BBM If Rebecca's murder was unpremeditated and the painting of the cryptic message on the door was done in a panicky haste, then where did the murderer(s) get hold of all the painting tools (paintbrushes, paint tubes, etc.)?

Perhaps someone who had lived in the house before and knew where all of the art supplies were kept? The office was the room right next to the hanging room was it not? Who knows why the lunatic who killed Rebecca used acrylic paint and not permanent markers or spray paint? Pens and pencils were probably the easiest to come by but certainly would not have been as effective for the intended objective.

All of this is only my opinion. No intention to anger or frustrate anyone.

 

[SweetT]

Ex's in my opinion are always a good one to throw under the bus if your wanting to make it seem like someone else killed a person. They usually are one of the first people looked at. It seemed odd to me that Jonah made sure to point a finger at him, and let them know that they had been in communication with each other even if just texting but that the ex did want to see her, have lunch with her etc.
Also from what I understand that house was unlocked the whole night, so anyone really wanting in there could have gotten in. Especially if they were familiar with the home.
If what we are to believe is that she was so upset over news about Max's imminent death that she killed herself then the message that "She saved him" would certainly not apply to Max, it would have to have been addressed to Jonah. Then the "can you save her" in my opinion is just to anyone in general, not necessarily addressed to any one person.
Now if I wanted to make it seem the Ex had something to do with this death..I could see she saved him as she saved Jonah in a Biblical spiritual sense and then can you save her? At that point it could be addressed to Jonah..or God whichever way you would want to perceive it.
I just threw this out there as I don't think it had been discussed. Just that it is possible someone wanted in a last ditch effort to throw the ex under the bus to cover their butt. The paint could be on her body for numerous reasons regardless of whether she wrote the note or not. It's a theory.
No I don't think the ex had anything to do with her death, but he could be a scape goat that someone could use regardless of whether it actually worked out for them in the long run or not.

 

[shefner]

And how did some of the paint get on the noose around RZ's throat?

The murderer painted this message. I imagine the last thing the murderer would do is place Rebecca's nude body out the window. He/she knew it would attract attention from someone rather quickly....so after painting the message on the door, the murderer placed the rope around Rebecca's neck and accidentally transferred some paint.
This murder was pre-meditated. Even if it was an hour or two ahead of the event. I think it was thought out....and it was for spite.

 

[DeDee]

RZ had no reason to feel guilty, but she obviously felt very sad about MS's accident. You keep repeating that RZ took her sister on a shopping excursion that day. Can you provide some proof? There certainly wasn't much time for any kind of shopping trip that day as RZ was spending her waking hours cleaning up at Spreckels, getting medical attention for her sister, ferrying various guests and family to and from the airport, etc.
She didn't go on a shopping "excursion" that day and your attempts to put her in a bad light are inconsistent.

Make up your mind about your story: RZ was either so filled with angst and terrified of being interrogated by LE that she committed suicide or she was happy as a lark and taking shopping trips. According to reliable witnesses, neither of your portrayals is accurate, but for the sake of story consistency, you should choose one and stick with it.

Noooo, RZ was not sad, according to her sister. RZ was upbeat the night before she was discovered hanging over the balcony, according to her sister Mary.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.m/lanow/2011/07/woman-found-hanging-at-spreckels-mansion-wasnt-depressed-family-says.html

"But Mary Zahau-Loehner, a sister of Rebecca Zahau, said her sister was upbeat the night before she was found dead"

"Obviously, the investigation is not complete yet, but as far as what I know about my sister, my sister did not commit a suicide. My sister was not depressed, my sister was not frantic, my sister was planning to call my parents the next day and was planning to keep me posted about Max the next day," she said in a statement to San Diego television channel KFMB."

My sincere apologies as I am unable to link the shopping spree, thus, will totally discount it's possibility, for now, as it does not fit my theory anyway; however, I do believe that the shopping rumor is attributed to MZL, who said it defensively, to demonstrate that her sister wasn't upset about Maxie's status.

I sure do not believe RZ was happy and, on that note, I have never wavered. Far from it. I think she was entranced and only thought about herself and how she would escape facing questions. Her sister, MZL, is the one who has openly and publically spoken out that her sister was not depressed.


moo

 

[DeDee]

The murderer painted this message. I imagine the last thing the murderer would do is place Rebecca's nude body out the window. He/she knew it would attract attention from someone rather quickly....so after painting the message on the door, the murderer placed the rope around Rebecca's neck and accidentally transferred some paint.
This murder was pre-meditated. Even if it was an hour or two ahead of the event. I think it was thought out....and it was for spite.

And how did some of the paint get on the noose around RZ's throat?

Former LAPD Det. Mark Fuhrman agreed, after viewing the expert's reports, that MS's injuries were not consistent with the position of his body on the floor and that her death was definitely suicide. He sites 2 reasons that make it almost impossible to stage.

1) absence of any other footprints on the dusty balcony
2) paint transfer from her hand to her hip to her back where she put her hand back into the restraints

It's in the video starting at 7:20.

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/19236125/fmr-lapd-detective-weighs-in-on-shacknai-case

Conclusion: Rebecca painted the message on the door to Jonah should he arrive home and look for her but JS left and never entered the mansion again, to my knowledge.

moo

 

[jjenny]

There were other footprints on the balcony.
How can one look at the photo of the balcony and conclude there are no other footprints? They are plainly visible.

 

[bourne]

And how did some of the paint get on the noose around RZ's throat?

This is an excellent point! Thanks for the reminder If Rebecca's murderer(s) were panicking and acting in mad haste AFTER murdering Rebecca (presumably by accident), then how did the paint get on the noose around Rebecca's throat? Presumably the paint had to have gotten there BEFORE Rebecca was hanged, right? This would mean that the murderer(s) were USING or at least carrying OPENED black paint tubes at some point PRIOR to hanging Rebecca.

Why would the murderer(s) be using/carrying opened paint tubes BEFORE the hanging murder was committed if the murder and painting on the Spreckels mansion door was UN-premeditated? Such actions are not indicative of painting cryptic words on the hanging room door as a rash and hasty *afterthought* but rather careful planning, premeditation, forethought and execution.

 

[Bonepile]

I am wondering if handwriting analysis was done on anyone, or should I say handprinting which might give a clue to who did the printing? Look at grocery lists, personal notes, post it notes, business correspondence. Was anyone required to print for the authorities? Was it ever discovered if more than one person contributed to what was written on the door?

 

[bourne]

Perhaps someone who had lived in the house before and knew where all of the art supplies were kept? The office was the room right next to the hanging room was it not? Who knows why the lunatic who killed Rebecca used acrylic paint and not permanent markers or spray paint? Pens and pencils were probably the easiest to come by but certainly would not have been as effective for the intended objective.

All of this is only my opinion. No intention to anger or frustrate anyone.

I like how you think as you have got my intellectual and creative juices flowing here!

Yes, all of what you say could be true, but given what we know, that the paint found on Rebecca's noose around her neck had to have gotten on the noose BEFORE the murderer(s) actually hanged Rebecca to her death, this would suggest that the black paint was either used or carried opened tube BEFORE the commission of the actual murder. Thus, eliminating the possibility that the painting of the Spreckels mansion door was done in haste or in your words, "[the murdering lunatic was] terrified and desperate, grasping at straws of how to cover up what they had done."

I want to add that even lunatics have the capacity to plan ahead and perform preplanned actions. Their adrenaline may be up and their hands may be shaky while executing their plan -- such as nervously painting the cryptic message on the door thus not getting enough paint on the paintbrush on certain letters like the "S" of the first word "SHE" -- but they can still follow through with their premeditated plan.

 

[bourne]

I am wondering if handwriting analysis was done on anyone, or should I say handprinting which might give a clue to who did the printing? Look at grocery lists, personal notes, post it notes, business correspondence. Was anyone required to print for the authorities? Was it ever discovered if more than one person contributed to what was written on the door?

SDLE had stated, IIRC from either a presser or in an MSM article, that it was "impossible" to compare the painting on the door to actual handwriting samples as painting on the door is too vastly different from painting on a easel or penmanship. This was discussed by other posters before and I believe links were given wherein graphologists have actually stated the opposite of SDLE said. In other words, expert graphologists have stated that it *is* possible to analyze painted letters on various media to penmanship. Unfortunately it appears that majority of known science escapes SDLE in this case.

 

[Bonepile]

I also know as an artist that yes you can paint direct from acrylic tubes using the tube(s) as your brush as I have lettered rough signs that way, and yes people have figured out it was my lettering, and also I have gotten paint from that paint tube method on my hands, but then I did not transfer the paint to a rope or someone's body (at least I do not think I did).

 

[Zinn]

I also know as an artist that yes you can paint direct from acrylic tubes using the tube(s) as your brush as I have lettered rough signs that way, and yes people have figured out it was my lettering, and also I have gotten paint from that paint tube method on my hands, but then I did not transfer the paint to a rope or someone's body (at least I do not think I did).

Bonepile - As an artist, can you tell me how difficult it is to remove this type of acrylic paint from skin? Let's say someone got a streak of this acrylic paint on his/her arm and attempted to wipe it off a few hours later, what materials would be required? Would soap and water be enough? Also, is this type of paint toxic to skin? TIA.

 

[*Lash*]

In interrogating RZ, I rather doubt LE would accept "I didn't see anything" as anything more than an "I know nothing" attitude. I can think of a dozen questions to ask her only pertaining to Maxie's activities on the morning of July 11.
Seasoned CPD Officer Adkins had plenty questions for RZ and so did Maxie's mother. RZ's suicide conveniently keeps many questions from being answered.

BBM - I agree. Dina most definitely had many questions for Rebecca. According to Nina, it was even suggested by BP to obtain more details. So why didn't Dina just call Rebecca or talk to Rebecca at the hospital? It would have been in Maxie's best interest. Dina had time to go home for several hours, why didn't Dina attempt to contact Rebecca then? Dina surely didn't believe what was coming out of Jonah's mouth. In my opinion, it is very telling there is NO record of Dina contacting Rebecca before she was found dead. Of course Dina was seen at the mansion hours before Rebecca died.

 

[Bonepile]

Bonepile - As an artist, can you tell me how difficult it is to remove this type of acrylic paint from skin? Let's say someone got a streak of this acrylic paint on his/her arm and attempted to wipe it off a few hours later, what materials would be required? Would soap and water be enough? Also, is this type of paint toxic to skin? TIA.

Since acrylics dry fast I have used soap and water to get it off. Other times if it is thicker I have peeled it off. It is not toxic but if thick can limit movement. And next to impossible to get out of clothing or cloth once it dries. Thanks for asking!

 

[Zinn]

Since acrylics dry fast I have used soap and water to get it off. Other times if it is thicker I have peeled it off. It is not toxic but if thick can limit movement. And next to impossible to get out of clothing or cloth once it dries. Thanks for asking!

Thank you, Bonepile! One additional question for you, after a little background on why I'm asking. I will not be posting it here as I believe it would be against TOS, but I recall DS posted a photo of herself with all three Shacknai kids within weeks of Max's fall. The photo was posted on DS's FB page prior to Max's fall, but it was set to be viewed publicly, at least by the time I saw it weeks later. In the photo, Max was not wearing a shirt and he had what appeared to be whimsical black tattoos painted on his chest. My question: Would acrylic paint ever be used for such a purpose? These were not the type of tattoos that come in a sheet, they looked like they were painted on.

IIRC, small amounts of black paint were also found on Rebecca's nipples and/or areolae. I wonder if perhaps additional paint was wiped off Rebecca's chest with what LE described as used makeup wipes found at the scene. If so, and sorry if this is too graphic, but I can imagine why small amounts might remain on the nipple. Of course, it's possible the paint got on her areolae and/or nipple some other way that didn't involve additional paint on her chest, but those used makeup wipes have always been suspicious to me. I've wondered if perhaps they were just wet tissues, hastily utilized in an attempt to remove paint.

All of the above is just my opinion and wild speculation.

 

[DeDee]

One of the most mysterious items of evidence at RZ's death scene in Spreckels Mansion was a message crudely painted on the door to the murder room.

"SHE SAVED HIM
CAN HE SAVE HER"

Though SDSO removed the door from the mansion as evidence, they steadfastly refused to reveal it's contents. Once the wording was revealed by a family member, SDSO refused to offer anything other than a photo with the painted words masked with white.

The public finally had the chance to view the actual writing on the door when an unedited photo was published late last year in Ann Rule's book.

<snip>

Note: We spent several months discussing this topic in another thread that was closed for snarky posting. Let's see if we can keep this one open. Thanks.

<snip>

BBM

This info was posted less than 3 weeks ago. So which is it, Betty P?

"SHE SAVED HIM
CAN HE SAVE HER"
Or
"SHE SAVED HIM
CAN YOU SAVE HER"

 

[Gilgamesh]

OP =? Opposing party?

 

[TorisMom003]

OP =? Opposing party?

Original Poster

 

[Zinn]

BBM

This info was posted less than 3 weeks ago. So which is it, Betty P?

"SHE SAVED HIM
CAN HE SAVE HER"
Or
"SHE SAVED HIM
CAN YOU SAVE HER"

The correct wording (written by ME Lucas as "She Saved Him Can You Save Her") was included in Rebecca's autopsy report under "SCENE NOTE" on page 4. The autopsy report with this wording was released long before the image of the door was published by Ann Rule. IIRC, the press conference on 9/2/11 included a photo of the door with the words whited out. The autopsy with the specific wording was released a few days later.

I do recall there was initially some confusion about the wording of the message, but it was resolved two years ago with the release of the autopsy report and confirmed again with the more recent release of Ann Rule's book.