NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #2

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While I still disagree with some of Cadwrest's contentions regarding the KR theory, I have read his/her defense of KR on "Here for Faith Hedgepeth" and I will admit he/she does a decent job of explaining away many of the things that lead some to suspect KR. He/she doesn't successfully explain away everything, IMO, but he/she does offer pretty good explanations for most things.

The problem is that this leaves us with a male culprit who:
(i) somehow entered the apartment between 4:30am and 8:00am
(ii) was not in their circle of friends
(iii) felt so offended by something Faith (or KR) said or did that he not only brutally bludgeoned Faith to death but left a note insulting her and defending himself

A few things to think about:
1. Did LE ever establish or make public an estimated time of death? I have never seen mention of this, but this would be a useful piece of information to have.
2. How did this male gain entrance to the apartment? Did Faith let him in or did he try the door and let himself in? If he knocked, awoke Faith and Faith let him in, who could this male be, given that Faith would have had to trust him enough to let him in at that odd hour, yet after swabbing 800 people this person has not been identified?
3. If he tried the door and let himself in --- i.e., he was a prowler, stalker type --- why would he leave such a personal note? What would have been the source for those strong personal feelings?

In a way, one might begin one's thinking with the note (rather than with other pieces of evidence).

I’m not stupid, B*tch. Jealous.


Who would write this? Someone who felt Faith (or KR) had called him stupid or had implied he was stupid. Someone who was murderously angry about this slight or perceived slight. Who would this be? A delivery guy they had been condescending towards? Someone in the complex they had laughed at in some way? I don't see a UNC student or law school student writing this, not to mention the fact that it looks like the 800 swabs have eliminated all such suspects.

This case really bothers me. Let's go, LE; you need to solve this.
First, in case anyone new doesn’t know of CADwrest’s long defense of Karena it is here:
http://tinyurl.com/ybr5cva7

I think most of JM Bee’s questions may have easy, reasonable (though speculative) answers, but I agree with 2 points:
1) the estimated-time-of-death is a crucial piece of information that bizarrely has never been released, and doesn’t even appear on the autopsy.

2) I too find the note the hardest thing to explain: it appears in the middle of a bloody, ghastly crime scene, yet is clean. After committing this grotesque act did the perp have the wherewithal to clean themselves off and take time to scrawl a note? (easier to imagine them panicking and departing in a hurry). Or was the note written before the crime and then tossed on the bed afterwards — but the marking pen has the perp’s DNA, so surely they wrote it? It’s too bad that LE didn’t release the note at the time of the crime when the handwriting might have been recognized by someone local, instead of waiting 'til 2 years later when people have moved and memories have faded.


 
Agreed with those above that the note is the outlier that doesn't fit the other facts of this case.

For this reason, I often assume it is in response to a conversation that the perp had in his own head. It isn't that far fetched to believe that someone nuts enough to murder a girl would also be projecting feelings onto her as well.
 
Well, it could still have been a stranger, and the note was in response to a conversation they had in the apartment. Maybe he was a random prowler who was watching the apartment, saw KR leave, and thought it was empty. He went in, grabbed the liquor bottles, and went into the bedroom to see what he could steal out of there. Then Faith woke up, saw him, and said something like "Get the hell out of here! What, are you stupid or something?!" In between the shock of him not expecting anyone to be there and anger at what she said, he attacked her with what he happened to have in his hands. Afterwards, he cleaned himself up, just sort of scrawled the note out, and left it on the bed beside her. I guess, in this scenario, he gave up on stealing anything and just took off, hoping to not get arrested for murder.
 
Quick question, and I know this has been mentioned before, but why exactly do we have only 118 pages of documents when the reports mention 200+? Are there some that only the news media has access to, since they were the parties that brought the lawsuit that got the documents released?

Also, in that vein, is it possible that a subsequent suit would result in further documents being released?
 
Quick question, and I know this has been mentioned before, but why exactly do we have only 118 pages of documents when the reports mention 200+? Are there some that only the news media has access to, since they were the parties that brought the lawsuit that got the documents released?

Also, in that vein, is it possible that a subsequent suit would result in further documents being released?

At some point after documents were released at the 2-yr. point police were asked if more documents would be forthcoming and they said no -- not sure if that meant 'no' at that point in time or never, or if a court review would make any difference (but I don't believe the press got any more than the rest of the public).

Re: the note... "I'm not stupid B*tch Jealous" People generally read that as 'I'm not stupid (you) B*tch, (I'm) Jealous' and it's often been noted that a female would more often refer to themselves as 'jealous' than a male would... but what if the interpretation is more along the lines of 'I'm not stupid (you) B*tch; (are you) Jealous?' or 'I'm not stupid B., (you're just) Jealous' i.e. putting the jealous tag onto the victim instead of their own attribute? I think that's easier to hear in a male voice (though it still doesn't explain much).
 
At some point after documents were released at the 2-yr. point police were asked if more documents would be forthcoming and they said no -- not sure if that meant 'no' at that point in time or never, or if a court review would make any difference (but I don't believe the press got any more than the rest of the public).

Re: the note... "I'm not stupid B*tch Jealous" People generally read that as 'I'm not stupid (you) B*tch, (I'm) Jealous' and it's often been noted that a female would more often refer to themselves as 'jealous' than a male would... but what if the interpretation is more along the lines of 'I'm not stupid (you) B*tch; (are you) Jealous?' or 'I'm not stupid B., (you're just) Jealous' i.e. putting the jealous tag onto the victim instead of their own attribute? I think that's easier to hear in a male voice (though it still doesn't explain much).

Of your suggestions, I've always heard 'I'm not stupid B., (you're just) Jealous'. I think one is far more likely to call someone else jealous (usually as a put down) than admit to jealousy. In fact, I think most people go out of their way to not use that word to describe themselves.
 
Please remember we do not allow any copy and paste posts from other forums. We have no way to verify if that information is correct.

Thank you,
Tricia
 
Well, it could still have been a stranger, and the note was in response to a conversation they had in the apartment. Maybe he was a random prowler who was watching the apartment, saw KR leave, and thought it was empty. He went in, grabbed the liquor bottles, and went into the bedroom to see what he could steal out of there. Then Faith woke up, saw him, and said something like "Get the hell out of here! What, are you stupid or something?!" In between the shock of him not expecting anyone to be there and anger at what she said, he attacked her with what he happened to have in his hands. Afterwards, he cleaned himself up, just sort of scrawled the note out, and left it on the bed beside her. I guess, in this scenario, he gave up on stealing anything and just took off, hoping to not get arrested for murder.

This is a potential theory I agree with for sure.
 
At some point after documents were released at the 2-yr. point police were asked if more documents would be forthcoming and they said no -- not sure if that meant 'no' at that point in time or never, or if a court review would make any difference (but I don't believe the press got any more than the rest of the public).

Re: the note... "I'm not stupid B*tch Jealous" People generally read that as 'I'm not stupid (you) B*tch, (I'm) Jealous' and it's often been noted that a female would more often refer to themselves as 'jealous' than a male would... but what if the interpretation is more along the lines of 'I'm not stupid (you) B*tch; (are you) Jealous?' or 'I'm not stupid B., (you're just) Jealous' i.e. putting the jealous tag onto the victim instead of their own attribute? I think that's easier to hear in a male voice (though it still doesn't explain much).

I always interpreted the 'jealous' as in "you're jealous". Of course, there's really no way to know.

This also gets kind of difficult when you consider that it could also be written in a different order. For example "I'm not jealous, stupid b*tch"
 
Since things are slow, I’ll throw out a crazy thought if anyone has the time or inclination to pursue it:
Police have portrayed this as a sort of 1-off, personal crime against Faith, buuut what if in fact it is the work of a serial or repeat criminal (rapist or murderer) who happened to cross paths with Faith that night or week and learned her location…? What if this crime basically gives his M.O.; i.e. he goes to the apartment of a young female victim between the somewhat odd hours of say 5am and 7am in the morning (perhaps even Friday morning is pertinent) and violently assaults his victims (perhaps it being in a college town is pertinent as well? perhaps using whatever is handy to beat the victim, NOT a knife, gun, etc.? and perhaps we are looking specifically for Hispanic perps?)

Is there any reasonable way to carry out some sort of Google search, or database search, (or even Websleuths’ search) for crimes that meet that description in say the last 5 years — maybe starting out in the states, NC., South Carolina, and Virginia, and moving outward from there as needed? Or is that just too impractical or un-doable???

Any thoughts? (though possible, it's hard for me to believe whoever did this hasn't committed similar crimes.)


Forgive me if the answer to this is obvious or has already been considered, but as a follow up to Webthrush's idea.....once LE takes DNA from a crime scene, do they run it against all other DNA from crime scenes, including that of cold cases? We know they've run it against whatever criminal database they have at their disposal and also swabbed 800 POEs, but maybe there would be a hit from another local/semi local cold case? Thanks in advance
 
What is absolutely perplexing to me about this crime is that the male DNA has never matched anywhere else. Many years ago when I was in college I was pulled over and charged with a DUI and even for that I believe my prints were taken as well as mugshots. So this male perp has managed to live his whole adult life as a squeaky clean choir boy yet he flew into a rage and murdered someone? Just seems crazy to me to be capable of such rage, yet never have gotten into a bar fight, or drove home drunk, or petty theft etc. If we go with the homeless/transient random act of violence angle...don't those people get picked up by LE pretty often?
 
I always interpreted the 'jealous' as in "you're jealous". Of course, there's really no way to know.

This also gets kind of difficult when you consider that it could also be written in a different order. For example "I'm not jealous, stupid b*tch"


The scenario that popped into my head to explain the note (of course, all total speculation, fantasy and conjecture on my part) is that the perp believed Faith was somehow trying to undermine a relationship between the perp and his/her significant other. What the perp wrote might be shorthand for something like this:

"I know you were trying to break us up, I'm not stupid. The only reason you're interfering is because you're jealous of what we have together."

I don't know, maybe I watch too many movies!
 
What is absolutely perplexing to me about this crime is that the male DNA has never matched anywhere else. Many years ago when I was in college I was pulled over and charged with a DUI and even for that I believe my prints were taken as well as mugshots. So this male perp has managed to live his whole adult life as a squeaky clean choir boy yet he flew into a rage and murdered someone? Just seems crazy to me to be capable of such rage, yet never have gotten into a bar fight, or drove home drunk, or petty theft etc. If we go with the homeless/transient random act of violence angle...don't those people get picked up by LE pretty often?

AFAIK, LE does not do a DNA swab except for felony arrests. From your description above, it sounds like they got your prints and mugshot, but didn't do a mouth swab. A lot of people that LE pick up frequently (transients/homeless like you mentioned) are often released with no charge or just a very minor charge, so the DNA isn't collected.

So he doesn't have to be a "choir boy", he just has to avoid being picked up for felonies.

ETA: As far as prints go, LE hasn't released that they have any for the killer.
 
The actual message of the note is so vague that it’s possible to read it in a lot of different ways. At this point, since we don’t know who the perp is and anything about his relationship to Faith (if he had a prior one at all), anyone’s guess is equally as good as another’s.

So, let’s talk about the note in detail. What do we know about it for sure?

1. It’s written on a take-out bag, apparently from Time Out. Right away, why? We’ve seen the pictures of the apartment, with stuff cluttered everywhere. Also, two college students lived there. Was there not a scrap of paper for the perp to use?

2. The bag is visibly free of blood. In the podcast from December, Tom Gasparoli mentioned that there was a microscopic spot of blood on it, which is the first I’d heard of that. But nonetheless it is almost entirely clean. It was clearly not in the room when Faith was killed. We can’t know for sure when the message was written, but the bag had to have been placed after she was dead.

3. The bag, and the pen used to write it, have the killer’s DNA on it. The killer would had to have touched it with his bare hands. This shows he either a) knows nothing about crime scene forensics or b) didn’t care since he knew he’d already left too much DNA to clean up in the bedroom.

4. The killer had to have cleaned his hands before putting the note beside her. Even if he wrote it before killing her, there would surely have been enough blood on his hands for a noticeable amount to have transferred to the note, if he hadn’t cleaned up.

My own interpretation of the above is as follows:

The prep killed Faith in the bedroom without causing too much of a disturbance. He didn’t think the police were going to be arriving imminently. So he didn’t flee in a panic, but decided he’d be better off cleaning himself off before leaving the apartment. And so he took a few moments and at least cleaned off his hands.

At that point, he decided to write the note. Now, why did he do this, why did he use the bag, and why did he not at least avoid touching the pen and bag (when he could have easily found something to use as a barrier, like his shirt sleeve)?

As to why he used the bag, I think it was the first thing he saw that “fit the bill,” so to speak. He could have found something better, but even though he thought no one was coming, I think he knew he shouldn’t dawdle and waste time (and make noise) searching for something else.

Why did he not care about leaving his DNA? It’s possible he didn’t know anything about forensics, but I think it’s more likely he just knew it wasn’t going to matter, considering how much he’d already left in the bedroom.

Why did he write the note at all? That’s the hardest question. This is getting more and more speculative, but I think all of the above shows that this wasn’t an unintelligent person. I don’t think he would have left this note if its message was going to point the authorities in his direction. I more I think about this, the more I believe that either the message was something between him and Faith that would mean nothing to anyone else (see my post #103 above), or the message meant absolutely nothing at all, and was solely designed to suggest a motive for the crime that was not present.

Why would he do that, if it was he was a stranger? Well, LE has limited resources, and in this case focused like a laser on ETJ, understandably so. They probably would have done so even without the note. But even if there had not been a really obvious suspect like that, the note would have pointed LE towards a former boyfriend or someone close to the victim, at the expense of pursuing avenues related to “stranger crimes” (for instance, looking at recent break-ins in the area, or people picked up for burglaries, etc.). Maybe it was just an attempt at buying a little time, in which case, it worked better than he could have possibly hoped.

Or, of course, maybe none of the above. It’s just my attempt to explain away an intimate note in a crime where everyone with even a casual relationship with the victim has been swabbed and cleared by police.
 
AFAIK, LE does not do a DNA swab except for felony arrests. From your description above, it sounds like they got your prints and mugshot, but didn't do a mouth swab. A lot of people that LE pick up frequently (transients/homeless like you mentioned) are often released with no charge or just a very minor charge, so the DNA isn't collected.

So he doesn't have to be a "choir boy", he just has to avoid being picked up for felonies.

ETA: As far as prints go, LE hasn't released that they have any for the killer.

I think what Raiders what getting at (if I'm not mistaken) is that the national database would include DNA from unsolved cases, not just known felons. So if the perp in the Hedgepeth case had also, say, raped a woman in Charlottesville, VA. (or Los Angeles for that matter) and escaped arrest, his case DNA wouldn't match a known individual but would match up to previous unsolved crimes. I assume that's correct, or is there any chance that submissions to the national database ONLY returns hits to known felons?

That police have never said whether or not any fingerprints of note were found at the scene is also odd (does it imply there were none and the perp wore gloves, and went to the apt. knowing what would go down?)
 
I think what Raiders what getting at (if I'm not mistaken) is that the national database would include DNA from unsolved cases, not just known felons. So if the perp in the Hedgepeth case had also, say, raped a woman in Charlottesville, VA. (or Los Angeles for that matter) and escaped arrest, his case DNA wouldn't match a known individual but would match up to previous unsolved crimes. I assume that's correct, or is there any chance that submissions to the national database ONLY returns hits to known felons?

That police have never said whether or not any fingerprints of note were found at the scene is also odd (does it imply there were none and the perp wore gloves, and went to the apt. knowing what would go down?)

I would think perp DNA from a cold case would have to be added to the system; otherwise, how could they match the DNA from a recently arrested felon to an unsolved cold case? So I think if there was a matching set of DNA from another unsolved cold case, they'd be able to match them up. I sort of doubt that happened here, though, because that sounds like the sort of thing they actually would tell the public ("This person spent time in Charlottesville, VA in 2006")
 
Interesting story below about a young woman who confessed to killing her friend after police saw what looked like the murder weapon --- her belt --- in a Facebook photo she posted of the two of them. I post this, in part, because it demonstrates that murderous resentment or anger can lurk beneath the surface of friendships between attractive 19- and 20-year-old females, something some here try to discount.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/18/world/canada-murder-belt-facebook-photo-trnd/index.html
 
Interesting story below about a young woman who confessed to killing her friend after police saw what looked like the murder weapon --- her belt --- in a Facebook photo she posted of the two of them. I post this, in part, because it demonstrates that murderous resentment or anger can lurk beneath the surface of friendships between attractive 19- and 20-year-old females, something some here try to discount.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/18/world/canada-murder-belt-facebook-photo-trnd/index.html

Despite individual instances, female-on-female violence is the least common of all combinations.
 
It might be less common, but it occurs. Look at the story above: two attractive 19-year-old girls go out for a night of fun. One gets furiously angry with the other and strangles her.
 
It might be less common, but it occurs. Look at the story above: two attractive 19-year-old girls go out for a night of fun. One gets furiously angry with the other and strangles her.

JMO[emoji1432][emoji1432][emoji1432][emoji817]JMO
#J4F


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