NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[hollyjokers]

I remember reading about Dr. Petit's body language & reactions to being about 8 feet away from the men who destroyed his family & nearly killed him. It wasn't minor curiosity, it was rage, fear, overwhelming sadness. Dr. Petit wants with his entire being for every one to remember his beautiful wife & daughters, Dr. MacDonald wants every one to remember him.

"Every body reacts differently to grief." - Attorneys for Scott Peterson, Christopher Vaughn, and so on.

 

[hollyjokers]

In the thirty-three years since the conviction, have they ever shown that Jim Blackburn embezzled money from the Jeffrey MacDonald trial? Have they ever shown that the 48/21 pajama top evidence was manufactured? Were the pajama top fibers proven to have been planted in Kimberley's bedclothes, under Kristy's fingernail? Was the bloody pajama top sleeve cuff imprinted on the bloody sheet like one of those Jesus-on-toast miracles? No? That's weeeeeierrD!

Was the AHA! wig hair shown to come from one of Colette's falls?
Was the AHA! mystery hair in Colette's hand proven to be Jeffrey MacDonald's? Uhhh, the answers to those questions would both be YES!

Whatever Blackburn did later to disgrace himself, he was a genius to steer clear of questioning JM on jump parties, Russia trips, flight attendants, nurses & poolside orgies: how many seasoned prosecutors would have done just that?

"Just cuz he's a liar & just cuz he's cheater doesn't mean he's a killer!" - attorneys for Scott Peterson, Christopher Vaughn, and so on.

 

[JenniferTx]

Excellent point about your DH and the Daddy of your family, katy. What father would have done differently than you describe??

Thanks for bring us to something sensible that should have happened if the 4 hippies were in there.

I watched an interview with HS and she stated that they were at the apartment to just rough him up and then she goes on to state that they (their cult) was going to teach him a lesson by killing his family. She stated something about killing a pregnant woman as something the cult was seeking out to do. I will have to look to see if I can find the link. I do remember that HS was pregnant at the time of this recording and she wouldn't give out too much information because she was scared for her life and the life of her unborn baby.

 

[StephanieH]

The long, blonde synthetic hair that was found has already been addressed. It was the type used in the hair of dolls, NOT the kind used in human hair wigs. The shorter synthetic hair was used in something that Collette was known to own. Unfortunately, all of the dolls and clothing are long gone, so there is no way to be exact on the fibers, but there is enough knowledge of fibers from that time frame to know that these are likely the source.

Even if Stoekley et al were in the house, murdering Collette (who had a broken arm from defending herself and her children) and the kids, how does Jeff explain his lack of injuries? How does he explain not calling for help until AFTER everyone left? How does he explain joking about it on Dick Cavett? How does he explain him telling his father-in-law that he killed one of the killers?

Fine, he didn't mourn in any traditional ways. That doesn't make him a murderer. He mixed up his stories and got lucky because the murderers apparently only wanted to kill women and children (although even Charles Manson wouldn't kill children) and leave the man, the biggest threat, safe and sound. OK, so let's believe that. OK, let's believe that Jeff was in such a state of shock that he removed a knife from his wife, even though every ounce of his clinical training as a surgeon told him not to. (Why? Because he already knew his prints were on it?) Let's just believe that he was unconscious while three or four (depending) people savagely stabbed his family to death, despite no significant head injury.
OK, you have to believe all of that to believe his story. Plus, he lied to Collette about the Russian boxing team. What was that about? We will never know because, until proof was found, Jeff denied that as well.

 

[hollyjokers]

http://crime.about.com/od/issues/a/false.htm

Link about people who make false confessions. HS actually fits into all three categories IMO.

 

[Cappuccino]

http://crime.about.com/od/issues/a/false.htm

Link about people who make false confessions. HS actually fits into all three categories IMO.

That's my opinion too. She - and her friends - are very lucky the police saw through that story. Alot of police departments would have fallen for it back in 1970, what with the Manson killings having happened only a year or so before.

 

[SMK]

Jeffrey MacDonald’s lawyers ask judge to vacate his murder conviction

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/09/25/2368682/jeffrey-macdonalds-lawyers-ask.html

 

[borndem]

I remember reading about Dr. Petit's body language & reactions to being about 8 feet away from the men who destroyed his family & nearly killed him. It wasn't minor curiosity, it was rage, fear, overwhelming sadness. Dr. Petit wants with his entire being for every one to remember his beautiful wife & daughters, Dr. MacDonald wants every one to remember him.

"Every body reacts differently to grief." - Attorneys for Scott Peterson, Christopher Vaughn, and so on.

bbm

Again, holly, the Thanks button was not enuff. Beautifully and eloquently said. That is MacD to a T. The Arch Narcissist described in one sentence.

Made me <shiver>.

 

[hollyjokers]

I've not really been a fan of twitter, except for courtroom feeds, and being a Browns fan, reading hilarious comments during the game about how bad we suck. But I tweeted Joe McGinniss about the waste of time & money this hearing thing was but thanked him for speaking out for Colette & the girls. And he tweeted me back. Yay! He said he spent time with Colette's brother, Bob Stevenson & he's still fighting to keep JM behind bars. So I got excited & picked up my Kindle which had completely gone kaput a few days ago, and it started working again. Thanks Joe McGinniss for being my lucky charm! I hope you're just as lucky for Bob, Colette, Kimmy & Kristy.

 

[Madeleine74]

And he tweeted me back.

Now that is way cool!! I bet he's seeing a resurgence of sales of his book. Now that I think about it, I bet McD no longer gets any royalties from the book and hasn't since he sued. His written and signed agreement precluded him from suing. Once he did (sue) I bet that made the royalty contract null and void.

 

[fullmoon]

Same here, Boodles -- I don't want to miss it -- either they have changed when they are showing it, or their individual program descriptions are not correct. I would like to see it!

Really sorry about that. OWN did indeed change the lineup. It happened once before. I will keep an eye on it.

 

[hollyjokers]

This is an old Unsolved Mysteries about the MacDonald murders that was recently uploaded to YouTube. JM really sounds innocent when Robert Stack narrates. It's funny the subtle little variations in his story he has adapted over the years to try to fit the evidence, except he still shows Kimberley flat on her back to make his CPR attempts plausible. There are 3 parts; Helena Stoekley is on part 3. Robert Stack says her interview came from the BBC program False Witness, which is also available on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYuwz0cInC0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[fullmoon]

Great clip. Thanks. He's such a bad actor. Where are the tears while he recounts the horror of his children and wife being slaughtered?

When he was suppossedly fighting off the intruders, I always thought it was an odd thing for him to say that when he felt a sudden sharp pain in his right chest, "I remember thinking to myself, he throws a hell of a punch." To me, it seems he was really thinking how Collette threw "a hell of a punch," when she was fighting for her life and her children's lives. I think he was surprised at how much Collette fought. She probably knocked the wind out of him a few times. He's been rotting in prison for over 30 years. His handsome good looks are gone. He's an old man. How the narcissist must cringe when he looks in the mirror. His best years gone. I'm glad he didn't get the death penalty. It's worse for him, in my opinion, to be stuck in that prison, no freedom to do what he wants.

 

[BD1]

With the information that the urine stain was Kimberly's, I think Jeff lost his mind upon finding his side of the bed wet. I think he began verbally and or physically abusing the sleeping child and his wife woke up and was angry, afraid and protective. I think the verbal argument quickly escalated to Jeff attacking either Colette or Kimberly, or both, with the club. I think this is the reason Jeff insists it was Kristin in bed with Colette, and Kristin who peed the bed.
Jeff is exactly where he belongs.

 

[hollyjokers]

Mr. Southern California looks like the poster boy for melanoma & liver spots now. HA! HA! HA! HA!

 

[borndem]

BD1, I think your theory of what happened initially in that MBR to launch the murders, etc., is very logical and it's the most reasonable one of all.

As I've said before, it would have pizzed me off to go & find my side of the bed wet -- especially if it had been my 5-year-old. That it was the older child, who should have been old enuff not to wet the bed, would have made me mad at the child, and it would also have angered me that her mother should have taken care of that problem (in Jeff's "male dominant" mind, that was her job and she had not done it). And, for all we know, this bed-wetting by Kimmie may have been a frequent problem.

Jeff had been working three jobs, had been up for over 24 hours, was tired -- I'll give him that. It was the last straw of possibly a tuff day, and Collette leaves him with the girls while she goes to class, so he now has that to do -- and if he had taken an Eskatrol a little earlier, it probably exacerbated the situation .

He certainly could have ruffly awakened his daughter and struck her, as you suggest. Then of course Collette, who isn't the happiest mom of all time by now, does what she can to stop it.

He is just plain guilty, and his totally intentional murder of little Kristen is the cruelest type killing imaginable.
​

 

[BD1]

BD1, I think your theory of what happened initially in that MBR to launch the murders, etc., is very logical and it's the most reasonable one of all.

As I've said before, it would have pizzed me off to go & find my side of the bed wet -- especially if it had been my 5-year-old. That it was the older child, who should have been old enuff not to wet the bed, would have made me mad at the child, and it would also have angered me that her mother should have taken care of that problem (in Jeff's "male dominant" mind, that was her job and she had not done it). And, for all we know, this bed-wetting by Kimmie may have been a frequent problem.

Jeff had been working three jobs, had been up for over 24 hours, was tired -- I'll give him that. It was the last straw of possibly a tuff day, and Collette leaves him with the girls while she goes to class, so he now has that to do -- and if he had taken an Eskatrol a little earlier, it probably exacerbated the situation .

He certainly could have ruffly awakened his daughter and struck her, as you suggest. Then of course Collette, who isn't the happiest mom of all time by now, does what she can to stop it.

He is just plain guilty, and his totally intentional murder of little Kristen is the cruelest type killing imaginable.
​

Exactly. Any parent understands the rage children can make you, uncomfortably, feel at times. Add no sleep, working too much, a wet bed..and sometimes, one can see where the line of rational and positive parenting gets crossed. Where the line ends up non existant and a whole family ends up dead, tho, is when in addition to the above, you throw in some speed or speed like drug and a baseline narcissitic personality.

You hit the nail on the head. Colette and Kimberly's death were the result of rage and evil. Baby Kristin died as a result of pure evil.

 

[hollyjokers]

As bad as all the crime scene photos were, the ones that affected me most were the ones that showed Colette's broken arms. All the gore & stabbing was for show. But those pathetic distorted arms drives home just how hard she fought back.

 

[fullmoon]

You hit the nail on the head. Colette and Kimberly's death were the result of rage and evil. Baby Kristin died as a result of pure evil.

In any clip that gives a dramatic account of what likely happened that night, I always cringe when MacDonald heads towards Kristin's room to stab that poor defenseless baby. So incredibly evil. How in the world can he live with himself after all these years? Must be a sociopath - no conscience.

 

[Madeleine74]

He is obviously a psychopath with no conscience.

In re-reading the Fatal Vision book I'm learning so many things.

For instance:

- In his psychiatric evaluation (the one setup by his lawyer, Bernie Segal), MacD *admitted* to the psychiatrist he felt some relief at his wife being gone but said he occasionally missed his children (not making this up, folks, that's what the psychiatric notes said).

- MacD, during the Article 32 hearing in which he was being considered for a murder charge and during which time he was housed at "Bachelor Officer Quarters" on base, was carrying on an affair with some gal for many weeks/possibly months. This is mere weeks after the murder of his wife and kids. MacD denied it even after the gal signed an affidavit saying they had slept together many nights.

- MacD never requested any update in the solving of his wife's and children's murders and his only concern was getting away as fast as possible and rebuilding his new (bachelor) life.