Found Deceased NC - Raul Johnson, 4, Laurinburg, 24 January 2018

[Ixchel13]

What do you call it... my hinky meter is still pinging. I just cant see a 4 year old walking into a pond. Though it may not have been freezing, I don't think the water would be a comfortable enough temperature to want to wade in.

Shine bright Raul.

yes, big bear, yes, yes, and yes

 

[kaen]

I share your views. This was not an accident. This was negligence. Someone has to he held accountable.
Animals in the wild make better parents than some humans.

There has been so much said about the parents and family in this situation. I recognize that his father is in jail for abuse and there has been question about his mother. I do think that it is important to note that he was with his grandfather. His grandfather lost sight of him for a few minutes and, then, looked for him for twenty (by his account) before he called the police. When all is said and done, might there have been negligence on the part of the grandfather? Yes. Throughout this country, children die on a regular basis from drowning while in the care of people who love them and would never do anything to harm them. Just because this boy had a monster father and a mother who is under scrutiny for abuse herself does not mean that his grandfather (in whose care Raul was in) did anything that thousands of other parents do but have had the grace of the divine to not have had a catastrophic accident occur.

As a teen, one of the children (4 years old) I regularly sat for went out his sliding glass back door and up the ladder (inadvertently left hooked by his father early in the morning) into his above ground pool. His mother found him at the bottom of the pool 10 minutes later. She never thought he could get the sliders open or that the ladder would be in the pool--- it never was.

I was at the Jersey shore one day in my teens. Children were playing in the rough surf, a mom with three kids was holding onto the toddlers with her older child (about 6 or 7) near her. The little ones wanted a drink. She took them about 15 feet to get something. A wave came by and swept the older child under and out in the ocean. The child died and was found an hour later as lifeguards scoured the water for her.

As an adult, one of my great friends (3 kids --10, 8, and 4) had a beautiful house and an inground pool. She was inside with her girls as her mother-in-law watching her son. Grandma had always been a reliable babysitter for the kids. But, this day grandma got distracted by the garden in the yard. She stopped paying attention to the little boy who had taken swim lessons and was fairly competent in the water for 4 year old. Fifteen minutes later my friend came out and saw her son at the bottom of the pool. She dove in and attempted CPR. The irony is that she is a certified lifeguard.

All this to say that these tragic accidents are accidents. Preventable? Yes. Does this or the situations I know of amount to negligence? I don't know. Only time will tell for this family. But to equate the mistakes of this grandfather in terms of supervision as lower than most animals is unfair and cruel. This man will live the rest of his life with this void that his inaction or distraction caused.

Mistakes and errors in judgment happen. That is why they are called accidents. I wish everyone would withhold judgment on this grandfather and family until you know more. I would have hated for the unkind words that some here are using for this family to have been shared with the woman I babysat for, the woman who trusted the ocean and lost her daughter, and/or my friend whose life has been ruined by the loss of her son. The death of child in an accident cause heartache forever for those who loved them. No need to pile on by calling them less capable than wild animals.

Remember this pond was a walled pond, not a sloping pond. The weather was cold and the water was probably as well. He had muddy feet as the found his foot prints in the mud--creating a slippery environment.

JMHO

 

[Auntisemantic]

i couldn't agree more, your post is excellent. Yes, people were arrested on unrelated charges, but especially in this case, this person who was arrested, had he been watching Raul, could have saved his life. Sorry, loser.
This sweet, adorable child. He looked outside of his terrifying life experience for beauty and the
handout of a cookie. as long as that lady was there the next day with a smile and a treat, maybe life would be ok. Such is the thoughts of an innocent child who doesn't know any better. He saw birds and rabbits and maybe a fox or chickens on his rambles. This little rambler did not fall in that pond. Did someone chase him down to that pond? when LE says they saw his footprints, that doesn't mean they were all over the place, they cold probably detect a pattern...like a beeline vs. back and forth, back and forth like you're being chased.

They would've seen other footprints (adult sized shoe prints) if someone chased him into it.

 

[Auntisemantic]

Kaen,

The thing is that this happened multiple times (he went to the neighbor's just the day before & no one could find him for 25 min).
On another occasion, the Sheriff had brought him home.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I agree. He also bagged his mom not to go to work that morning. ��

Yes - something was going on. Begging the Mom not to go to work and then not talking to the Cookie Neighbor....well I will not be surprised if we find the COD is other than accidental.

 

[Steelslady]

After reading about how deep the pond was on the outside (5 feet), I can see where he could have fallen in and drowned. This is heartbreaking to say the least, but it doesn't look like anything more than a tragedy. I am sure his grandfather is wracked with guilt over this. It sounds like the family didn't take too many precautionary measures to keep Raul inside the house while his grandfather cooked or possibly did other household chores.

We know the sister is 6 years old that was home that day, and we know one of the sisters is a teen, but what are the ages of those inbetween?

 

[kaen]

Kaen,

The thing is that this happened multiple times (he went to the neighbor's just the day before & no one could find him for 25 min).
On another occasion, the Sheriff had brought him home.

I absolutely understand that. I also would imagine that his grandfather never thought he would drown and die. I know what has been reported. I believe it is important to realize we know just a slice of the way things went down.

 

[Steelslady]

Yes - something was going on. Begging the Mom not to go to work and then not talking to the Cookie Neighbor....well I will not be surprised if we find the COD is other than accidental.

Unless there was proof of possibly physical or sexual abuse, then I doubt they can deem this tragedy anything else but an accidental drowning. I agree, the neighbor saying he wouldn't answer her that day might shed some more light on as to something upsetting him that he left the home without his grandfather's knowledge, but at this point, we may never know the answer as to why Raul was so upset that he couldn't talk. Apparently, this was a daily routine with the elderly neighbor- makes you wonder if he ever showed up quiet like that in the past, and she missed any signs of him being traumatized.

Also, did he show up in the past at her house in pajamas and no shoes on? It appears to me that this seemed normal to her, with exception that Raul didn't talk on that day.

 

[rosesfromangels]

He was fairly social from what we know. He went to the neighbor's daily for cookies & candy (in the AM).
I have a daughter with severe autism (nonverbal), I don't think Raul had autism.
IMO, he didn't get a whole lot of attention.
I think he was often left to his own devices.

I hope that Cookie Neighbor knows that she was probably the best thing in his life...

 

[MsMarple]

There has been so much said about the parents and family in this situation. I recognize that his father is in jail for abuse and there has been question about his mother. I do think that it is important to note that he was with his grandfather. His grandfather lost sight of him for a few minutes and, then, looked for him for twenty (by his account) before he called the police. When all is said and done, might there have been negligence on the part of the grandfather? Yes. Throughout this country, children die on a regular basis from drowning while in the care of people who love them and would never do anything to harm them. Just because this boy had a monster father and a mother who is under scrutiny for abuse herself does not mean that his grandfather (in whose care Raul was in) did anything that thousands of other parents do but have had the grace of the divine to not have had a catastrophic accident occur.

As a teen, one of the children (4 years old) I regularly sat for went out his sliding glass back door and up the ladder (inadvertently left hooked by his father early in the morning) into his above ground pool. His mother found him at the bottom of the pool 10 minutes later. She never thought he could get the sliders open or that the ladder would be in the pool--- it never was.

I was at the Jersey shore one day in my teens. Children were playing in the rough surf, a mom with three kids was holding onto the toddlers with her older child (about 6 or 7) near her. The little ones wanted a drink. She took them about 15 feet to get something. A wave came by and swept the older child under and out in the ocean. The child died and was found an hour later as lifeguards scoured the water for her.

As an adult, one of my great friends (3 kids --10, 8, and 4) had a beautiful house and an inground pool. She was inside with her girls as her mother-in-law watching her son. Grandma had always been a reliable babysitter for the kids. But, this day grandma got distracted by the garden in the yard. She stopped paying attention to the little boy who had taken swim lessons and was fairly competent in the water for 4 year old. Fifteen minutes later my friend came out and saw her son at the bottom of the pool. She dove in and attempted CPR. The irony is that she is a certified lifeguard.

All this to say that these tragic accidents are accidents. Preventable? Yes. Does this or the situations I know of amount to negligence? I don't know. Only time will tell for this family. But to equate the mistakes of this grandfather in terms of supervision as lower than most animals is unfair and cruel. This man will live the rest of his life with this void that his inaction or distraction caused.

Mistakes and errors in judgment happen. That is why they are called accidents. I wish everyone would withhold judgment on this grandfather and family until you know more. I would have hated for the unkind words that some here are using for this family to have been shared with the woman I babysat for, the woman who trusted the ocean and lost her daughter, and/or my friend whose life has been ruined by the loss of her son. The death of child in an accident cause heartache forever for those who loved them. No need to pile on by calling them less capable than wild animals.

Remember this pond was a walled pond, not a sloping pond. The weather was cold and the water was probably as well. He had muddy feet as the found his foot prints in the mud--creating a slippery environment.

JMHO

Yes, so much shoulda woulda coulda appears in Raul's case. It's certainly frustrating and for me anyway; I keep replaying things in my mind, trying to create a happier ending.

If this was in a city the neighbor would have been required by law to fence in the pond. But this was in the country where it's not likely such ordinances exist. The neighbor's back yard abutted Raul's backyard and it may have been considered a *low risk that he went to visit her on a daily basis. The (elderly) neighbor could have brought Raul home or called the grandfather to come get him but she sent him on his way. Does she bear some responsibility?

Grandfather and any other adult present that day should have kept a closer watch on Raul - but he/they didn't. The neighbor could have alerted the grandfather that Raul was roaming the neighborhood - but she didn't. The pond could have been fenced - but it wasn't.

Like you say, it happens. Most of the time it ends with relief when the child is found. This day it ended in tragedy. But where exactly do we point our fingers?

*Note: I personally think he was way too young to do any neighborhood crawls but I understand that not everyone thinks it's dangerous to allow a child to freely roam in what they feel is an enclosed environment. Jenise Wright comes to mind as an example.

 

[Eloise]

He was fairly social from what we know. He went to the neighbor's daily for cookies & candy (in the AM).
I have a daughter with severe autism (nonverbal), I don't think Raul had autism.
IMO, he didn't get a whole lot of attention.
I think he was often left to his own devices.

Same. (I also have a child with nonverbal ASD, though he's picking up loads more speech now that he's 6 .. it's just not very social speech)

The neighbour said him being quiet was unusual, so doesn't seem like he has any issues with social communication.

And absconding behaviours and accidental drowning are both sadly all too common for kids with ASD it seems ... but kids (and adults, e.g. older adults with dementia) can abscond for a variety of reasons. Mental health, anxiety, ODD, trauma ... no doubt there are also just some kids that do it for no apparent reason at all, though probably not repetitiously. It's not like his home life was ideal, I wouldn't be surprised if he just didn't like being there much.

For the drowning, many if not most young children love the water and in young children - even those who can swim, the ability to get themselves out of trouble in water on their own just isn't great. Especially when the kind of water bodies that kids drown in are often nothing at all like the kinds of clean, sanitised, temp controlled swimming pools kids learn to swim in, wearing goggles and swimming costumes (not clothes, which weigh you down in a way small children probably aren't familiar with at all).

 

[FindHG]

[video=youtube;IWKUUbEd3Y4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWKUUbEd3Y4[/video]

 

[FindHG]

[video=youtube;0A6KmFBpcBM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A6KmFBpcBM[/video]

 

[FindHG]

[video=youtube;EKyX5_DhaO4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKyX5_DhaO4[/video]
Full PC with Dive Team Grid Search info 3:40 mins

 

[Snoop Sister]

Is there a new page now?

 

[MissMalowe]

The more details that were discovered during the search for Raul, the more heightened my "bad feelings" about everything became. At this point, I do now lean towards this being accidental. However, taking into consideration those details we learned along the way, so many things don't sit right with me in terms of whether that household is truly a safe, happy, healthy environment for the remaining 7 children.

- Raul was a habitual wanderer. He wandered often enough that authorities had been involved previously due to his wandering off and getting lost, as recently as THE DAY BEFORE. It had happened enough times that the one detective was familiar with not only Raul, but his typical wandering habits as well.

-The first time police needed to be involved should have been considered a serious warning to the parent & caregiver that precautions needed to be set in place to ensure that Raul remained safe and in the home. Extra/higher deadbolts, locks or an alarm on the door are easy to install and very inexpensive. Adults in the home should have also been extra diligent about keeping their eyes and ears open for Raul. None of those things seemed to happen.

- It was 11:00/11:30 am on a weekday and he was still dressed in mis-matched pajamas and left the house without shoes. Not a large issue on its own by any means, but when taking all other things into consideration, it does make me wonder if the household was simply more laid back or not morning people and they take longer getting ready in the mornings or if no one noticed or took the care or consideration to get him properly dressed and presentable every day.

-He didn't speak to the neighbor that day.
He was a regular visitor to the cookie/candy lady and according to her, he didnt say a word to her that day, which was unusual. Why wasn't he talking?
The mother said he and his sister had an argument while playing as the reason. How does she know this? Obviously the 6 year old sister would know about the argument, but the sister didn't know he had left the house. He always wandered. But normally his sister isn't home sick from school to even argue with. And obviously, no one saw Raul after that to ask him. I got the impression that reason was given simply to give a reason. An attempt to make it seem as though it was an isolated incident? Was there some other reason he wasn't talking? 4 year olds are usually more than happy to tattle on one of their siblings to anyone who will listen. Not a word. Why? What really happened?

- Mom and Dad's arrests for sexual abuse. In fact, dad was also charged in 2007 for sexually abusing a child in the home. (I'm guessing/hoping this was a different home/family???!!!)

Raul’s father has been arrested twice for sexually abusing a child in the family home, in 2007 and 2015. He is currently in prison.

He at the very least, had a past. Yet, he was brought into these children's lives/the family home. Once a woman brings a man like that into the home, I wonder about all sorts of things. Is there a history of choosing bad men/bad relationships? Why? Did they have a troubled or unsafe home life growing up as well? What about their family and friends? Do they have a history of arrests or violence or abuse too? Are the children around these types of people regularly? Have other people with a shady or criminal past been allowed around the family home or have lived/are living in the home? (You gotta dig......)
And according to msm reports, the children had been removed from the home before, more than once. Again, why? If it was because of the sexual abuse charges against both the father and mother (which were later dropped for the mother) that would account for one removal, correct? So, what were the reasons for the additional removal(s)? I believe the MSM article also stated that the abuse charges were brought to police following an investigation by DSS/DFS/DHS. What was the reason for them being involved originally?

I could go on, but this post has already been far lengthier than I originally intended. (Sorry!) Basically, this is my overall perspective;

When it gets to the point that going out and searching your property, going door to door to ask neighbors if your child is there, and calling the police (again) because you can't find your wandering child (again), has become not only somewhat routine, but shamelessly less of a hassle than spending QUALITY time with them and actually investing in them while they are in your care, well, it's a sad existence for everyone under that roof. Loving a child simply isn't enough. You have to invest in them. Your time, your energy, your wisdom, your knowledge, your best judgements, your patience, your care.

 

[Amonet]

Is there a new page now?

If you're referring to this thread in the forum, no, it stays here. The title is changed and the thread is duplicated and moved out of the 'currently missing' section, but the same bookmarks and links will still work.

If the thread gets to about 1000 posts, then the mods will make a new thread and link to the new one at the end of this one, but we're about 300 posts away from that happening.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[PetDetective]

I’m surprised they haven’t announced a COD yet.

Also, after watching the unedited PC, part of me feels like it’s possible that the Sheriff kept getting emotional because he feels like he let Raul down somehow.

It’s nice to see a Sheriff that is so caring, don’t get me wrong, but that thought jumped out at me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Snoop Sister]

Same. (I also have a child with nonverbal ASD, though he's picking up loads more speech now that he's 6 .. it's just not very social speech)

The neighbour said him being quiet was unusual, so doesn't seem like he has any issues with social communication.

And absconding behaviours and accidental drowning are both sadly all too common for kids with ASD it seems ... but kids (and adults, e.g. older adults with dementia) can abscond for a variety of reasons. Mental health, anxiety, ODD, trauma ... no doubt there are also just some kids that do it for no apparent reason at all, though probably not repetitiously. It's not like his home life was ideal, I wouldn't be surprised if he just didn't like being there much.

For the drowning, many if not most young children love the water and in young children - even those who can swim, the ability to get themselves out of trouble in water on their own just isn't great. Especially when the kind of water bodies that kids drown in are often nothing at all like the kinds of clean, sanitised, temp controlled swimming pools kids learn to swim in, wearing goggles and swimming costumes (not clothes, which weigh you down in a way small children probably aren't familiar with at all).

On one of the previous posted links I read that Raul had had a fight with his sister while playing with her in her bedroom and then left the house. So, this could be the reason why he was quieter than normal that morning (according to the neighbour lady). The Sheriff in the video above indicated that Raul was rather quiet child.

Also, the elderly neighbour lady said Raul was there daily but in one of the links already posted, a family member stated he went there occasionally. And, the neighbour lady further said she sent him home and said she saw him going that way as reported by MSM link cited earlier. Wondering how elderly is neighbour lady?

 

[4SAM]

I heard the news over the weekend, and I can't place any blame on anyone in this situation (MOO). I feel that the he was an adventurous little boy, and being in a rural community more than likely added to his freedom. If he was raised in the city, then yes, more than likely he would have been watched more closely. But in the country you feel that no wrong can go happen and you just live your life. I am pretty sure that all that was involved with him on a daily basis (grandfather, neighbor) are just heartbroken and beating themselves up. I would hug them and hope for the best in the tragedy.