NCAA Sanctions: "DP" for Penn Football, or...?

[ynotdivein]

Continue discussion of possible NCAA sanctions against Penn State football here.

 

[Reader]

Thought it would be good to have a place just to discuss and post articles about what should happen with the Penn State football team.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...07/13/gJQAtGrViW_story.html?tid=pm_sports_pop

By Jason Reid, Published: July 13

The NCAA’s 444-page manual contains no language directly addressing appopriate punishment for concealing information regarding child sexual abuse. But in light of the shameful conduct of Penn State’s leadership, revealed Thursday in the Freeh report, the NCAA must use its authority to do what’s needed now: Shut down the Nittany Lions football program.

If the Freeh report released Thursday is accurate in its assessment of the university’s role in the worst scandal in college sports history, then the engine that enabled longtime child sexual predator Jerry Sandusky must be switched off, at least temporarily.

The good news is that the NCAA is at least examining what its role should be in this horrific mess.

The organization is awaiting Penn State’s response to a November letter sent by NCAA President Mark Emmert, in which Emmert requested answers to questions “concerning compliance with institutional control and ethics policies.” The key matter for the NCAA to determine is whether its authority to punish for “lack of institutional control” is as applicable to egregious criminal behavior as it is to providing extra benefits to teenagers.
------

The football-driven culture at Penn State is so warped that the school’s current leadership should act to obliterate it without a NCAA mandate. It has happened before.

Disgraced by its prominent men’s basketball team, the University of San Francisco canceled the program for three seasons in the early 1980s. The school was widely applauded for being the first to shut down an out-of-control program in a major sport.


More at link....

 

[back2back19]

IA but alas, I don't think Penn State would ever do that(after listening to the pressers on Thursday and Friday, I really don't think they take responsibility for what happened, they may say it but I think it's all lipservice) and the NCAA is way too gutless to do it. Although I suppose public sentiment might sway them but I doubt it. I just don't see them doing anything.

 

[azwriter]

Punishment from the NC2A in the Penn State football program scandal is a very touchy subject.

The fans, or should they be called the die-hard fans, will scream out that it's not fair to punish those who had nothing to do with the crime of not reporting child rape. And that group of family and friends of the current and incoming football players will also be outrage at the unfairness of closing down the program, for whatever time the NC2A deems necessary.

But here's the thing: while it may appear that the wrong people are being punished by taking away the program, what's really going on is Penn State no longer deserves the trust and goodwill for its program and for that matter its administration.

If you have a bar or tavern that continues to have bloody battles or serves underage drinkers or a hospital that keeps making deadly mistakes, you shut them down. And when this happens it appears a lot of innocent people have to do without.

While I too have an allegency to a college football team or two (Purde and ASU) I have to look at the big picture. There are other college teams across the country where players can transfer and where fans can direct their cheers.

Penn State needs to stop the motion. They need to focus on the schools reputation now. Time does heal.

However, I sincerely hope that when it comes time for a decision to be made to put the PS football program on hold, the decision comes from within the University. That will be a big step toward accepting its punishment.

just my O

 

[Reader]

Penn State deserves NCAA wrath

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ll-penn-state-nittany-lions-earned-wrath-ncaa

If Ohio State can't play in a bowl game this season because former Buckeyes coach Jim Tressel lied to NCAA investigators about his players' receiving free tattoos, how can Penn State play in the postseason after former coach Joe Paterno helped cover up the horrific actions of a serial child rapist?

If North Carolina can't play in the postseason this season because some of its players received improper benefits from agents and committed academic fraud, how can Penn State be eligible for the postseason after its former president and vice president, athletic director and legendary coach fostered a culture in which a pedophile used the school's facilities, sideline passes to games and bowl trips like candy to lure the young boys he molested?...........

And the Nittany Lions should get hammered more than any other school in NCAA history............

Spanier, former vice president Gary Schultz, athletic director Tim Curley and Paterno did more than protect Sandusky for more than 14 years. When Sandusky retired in 1999, a year before the janitor witnessed him sexually assaulting a young boy, Penn State officials sent him out with a golden parachute -- a lump sum payment of $168,000 -- and allowed him to walk away as a revered member of the football program, instead of as a child rapist. ..........

During the next several months, the NCAA will weigh whether the Nittany Lions will face on-field sanctions for the Penn State administration's lack of action in stopping a child predator.

Fortunately, Freeh and his group already have done the NCAA's work. If a massive cover-up of a child rapist's disgusting actions isn't a major violation, I'm not sure anything else is.

More at link.....

 

[HMSHood]

Penn State football team should disband.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

From link below:

While some have said the entire sordid mess is outside of the NCAA’s purview, we all should argue the exact opposite. If the NCAA can’t penalize a coach and university that likely committed crimes by covering up heinous, violent acts by one of its leaders, then what is the point of existing?

http://www.pnj.com/article/20120715...rthless?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s

 

[Reader]

Phil Sheridan: Penn State deserves NCAA sanctions

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...__Penn_State_deserves_NCAA_sanctions.html?c=r

You wonder.

Now that you know unimaginable things about Penn State, you begin to wonder about the things you thought you knew. How does it all fit together?..........

Was it the other way around? Was Paterno so secretive and frequently surly with the media because there were such dark secrets?..........

Sandusky was conferred with emeritus status, which required a bending of the existing rules and allowed him rights and privileges that he used to assault children.

Why do all of that for a 54-year-old employee who has just been questioned by police about inappropriate contact with a young boy? Why give Sandusky unlimited access to the facilities he'd admitted using to shower with two young boys?

It just makes no sense unless there is a cause-and-effect relationship.........

They agreed not to report the (2001) incident. A few months later, Penn State sold a parcel of land to the Second Mile for much less than its full value.

These events may be unrelated. They sure look bad, knowing what we know now..........

But the unsavory implications of the university's deals with Sandusky make serious NCAA sanctions seem more appropriate. At the very least, the NCAA should further investigate whether Penn State effectively rewarded Sandusky for stepping away from the football program and maintaining his own silence.

If the NCAA sanctions athletic programs because players get free tattoos or cash, then it must act in the case of a university financing a pedophile in order to maintain the pristine image of its football program.

That really is the picture the dots form, even if Freeh wasn't completely able to connect them...........

The cover-up and the possible hush money, however, are very much a football scandal. And the football program should be punished accordingly.

 

[LNL]

Graham Spanier, disgraced ex-Penn State president, epitomized NCAA hypocrisy

There is one instance in the Freeh Commission report where Graham Spanier, the disgraced former Penn State president, said enough is enough. One instance when he slammed down his authoritative fist to protect the welfare of his charges and the reputation of his institution.

It wasn't against Jerry Sandusky, of course.

It was December 1997 and Spanier was soon to learn that the longtime Penn State defensive coordinator had been accused of molesting a young boy while showering with him in the Penn State locker room, according to the Freeh report. But Spanier wouldn't stand up to old Jer, because that wouldn't be the "humane" way of handling it. Or so he wrote in an email.

No, Sandusky got to keep fondling right under Spanier's nose for years to come.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf-...port-joe-paterno-curtis-enis-jeff-nalley.html

 

[Pensfan]

Phil Sheridan: Penn State deserves NCAA sanctions

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...__Penn_State_deserves_NCAA_sanctions.html?c=r

You wonder.

Now that you know unimaginable things about Penn State, you begin to wonder about the things you thought you knew. How does it all fit together?..........

Was it the other way around? Was Paterno so secretive and frequently surly with the media because there were such dark secrets?..........

Sandusky was conferred with emeritus status, which required a bending of the existing rules and allowed him rights and privileges that he used to assault children.

Why do all of that for a 54-year-old employee who has just been questioned by police about inappropriate contact with a young boy? Why give Sandusky unlimited access to the facilities he'd admitted using to shower with two young boys?

It just makes no sense unless there is a cause-and-effect relationship.........

They agreed not to report the (2001) incident. A few months later, Penn State sold a parcel of land to the Second Mile for much less than its full value.

These events may be unrelated. They sure look bad, knowing what we know now..........

But the unsavory implications of the university's deals with Sandusky make serious NCAA sanctions seem more appropriate. At the very least, the NCAA should further investigate whether Penn State effectively rewarded Sandusky for stepping away from the football program and maintaining his own silence.

If the NCAA sanctions athletic programs because players get free tattoos or cash, then it must act in the case of a university financing a pedophile in order to maintain the pristine image of its football program.

That really is the picture the dots form, even if Freeh wasn't completely able to connect them...........

The cover-up and the possible hush money, however, are very much a football scandal. And the football program should be punished accordingly.

The answer lies with Jer's establishment and position with The Second Mile. Penn State closely associated itself with TSM which at that time and place was as reputable as Special Olympics. Someone made the very flawed assumption that the goodwill toward the TSM's would reflect nicely on PSU. Therefore, Jer was given an office and he wormed his way back into the showers and nobody had the cajones or mercy (for his victims) to stop him.

 

[Reader]

Graham Spanier, disgraced ex-Penn State president, epitomized NCAA hypocrisy

There is one instance in the Freeh Commission report where Graham Spanier, the disgraced former Penn State president, said enough is enough. One instance when he slammed down his authoritative fist to protect the welfare of his charges and the reputation of his institution.

It wasn't against Jerry Sandusky, of course.

It was December 1997 and Spanier was soon to learn that the longtime Penn State defensive coordinator had been accused of molesting a young boy while showering with him in the Penn State locker room, according to the Freeh report. But Spanier wouldn't stand up to old Jer, because that wouldn't be the "humane" way of handling it. Or so he wrote in an email.

No, Sandusky got to keep fondling right under Spanier's nose for years to come.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf-...port-joe-paterno-curtis-enis-jeff-nalley.html

Thanks for the link, LNL......interesting about how Spanier operated in the NCAA:

The NCAA is often vilified. It isn't the workers at the Indianapolis headquarters who deserve scorn. It's the Spanier types, the presidents and commissioners who write the rules one committee meeting at a time (usually from a Florida beachfront hotel).

He was a model of self-interest, distorted ethics and misplaced authority, much of it derived from the false concept that Penn State football operated on a higher ethical level than the rest of the country.

"He'd always lean on the Penn State thing," said one administrator who served alongside Spanier on NCAA committees. "He always made the Penn State part known. Like, 'Well, we do it within the rules and still win at Penn State, at Penn State football. Why can't you? Why lower the bar? What's wrong with you?' "

It was a lie and Graham Spanier knew it. Not just in the case of Sandusky. There's plenty more in the Freeh report. Incidents of the athletic department not following its own policies, not reporting potential violations, allowing head coach Joe Paterno's outsized influence on discipline and other issues. For years the school didn't even adhere to the federal Clery Act, which requires reporting crimes committed on campus.

 

[believe09]

I struggle with the answer to this, tbh. I dont think the students should be punished because of administration. I think we need a lot more information about the motivation the big 4 had for having handled it this way, and I mean that sincerely. Not murky things alluded to in handwritten notes or incomplete emails. I feel in my heart that the whole truth needs to be told and I bet the spoils, so to speak (lightest sentence) will go to the one who comes nearest to the truth after making a deal with the DA's office. That being said, if the largest part of the motivation for the cover up is for the potential impact on the football program, then I think there has to be some kind of punishment.

I dont know if anything will ever be enough. To go to Penn State now as a football player is going to be pretty tough to brag about.

 

[BigCat]

The answer lies with Jer's establishment and position with The Second Mile. Penn State closely associated itself with TSM which at that time and place was as reputable as Special Olympics. Someone made the very flawed assumption that the goodwill toward the TSM's would reflect nicely on PSU. Therefore, Jer was given an office and he wormed his way back into the showers and nobody had the cajones or mercy (for his victims) to stop him.

On page 57 of the Freeh report there is a letter from Paterno to Sandusky informing him that he would not be the next head coach BECAUSE of his association the Second Mile.

On page 58, Sandusky responds with a letter requesting the following as part of his retirement:

One of the documents provided from Paterno's file is a letter signed by Sandusky, dated May 28, 1999. In the letter Sandusky acknowledged that he would not be the next Penn State football head coach, and outlined options for his future. Sandusky wanted an on-going relationship between the Second Mile and Penn State, as well as continuing "visibility" at Penn State. Sandusky also wanted "active involvement in developing outreach program featuring Penn State Athletes" and sought "ways for (him) to continue to work with young people through Penn State."

In the next paragraph Sandusky requested to start a middle school youth camp. Paterno noted that "Volunteer Position Director -- Postive Action for Youth."

So there's really no evidence for what you're suggesting. Paterno did not appear to be concerned with the Second Mile. It was merely a distraction to someone who wanted the all-important job of head football coach at Penn State University.

Sandusky requested the association with Penn State football and the Second Mile because he knew the Second Mile was nothing without that assocation. Or to put it another way: his ability to seduce and groom young boys without the lure of Penn State football would be greatly diminished. And he was right. After he was no longer allowed to bring children on campus, after 2001, the rate of his crimes slowed considerably (based on the crimes he was convicted of. There may have been more we aren't aware of).

All that said, I do hope the Second Mile is thoroughly investigated. If anyone in that organization was aware of and covered up Sandusky's crimes, they need to go to prison.

Here's part of the statement released by the organization after Sandusky was indicted:

"The most recent reports we’ve read this past weekend state that Mr. Sandusky met the alleged victims through The Second Mile. To our knowledge, all the alleged incidents occurred outside of our programs and events.

Does anyone know if this is still a true statement?


JMO

 

[believe09]

To our knowledge, all the alleged incidents occurred outside of our programs and events.

Clearly it isnt. Sandusky's convictions included molestations that occurred at out of town games, IIRC. I will bring the conviction post over from one of the threads.

 

[believe09]

The charges he was convicted of:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...t_complet.html

VICTIM 1

Count 1: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 2: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 3: Indecent assault
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 4: Unlawful contact with minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 5: Corruption of minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 6: Endangering welfare of children
Verdict: Guilty.

VICTIM 2

Count 7: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Not guilty.

Count 8: Indecent assault
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 9: Unlawful contact with minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 10: Corruption of minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 11: Endangering welfare of children
Verdict: Guilty.

VICTIM 3

Count 12: Indecent assault
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 13: Unlawful contact with minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 14: Corruption of minors
Verdict: Guilty.
Count 15: Endangering welfare of children
Verdict: Guilty.

VICTIM 4

Count 16: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Charge was dismissed

Count 17: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 18: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Charge was dismissed

Count 19: Aggravated indecent assault
Verdict: Charge was dismissed

Count 20: Indecent assault
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 21: Unlawful contact with minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 22: Corruption of minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 23: Endangering welfare of children
Verdict: Guilty.

VICTIM 5

Count 24: Indecent assault
Verdict: Not guilty.

Count 25: Unlawful contact with minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 26: Corruption of minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 27: Endangering welfare of children
Verdict: Guilty.

VICTIM 6

Count 28: Indecent assault
Verdict: Not guilty.

Count 29: Unlawful contact with minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 30: Corruption of minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 31: Endangering welfare of children
Verdict: Guilty.

VICTIM 7

Count 32: Criminal attempt to commit indecent assault
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 33: Unlawful contact with minors
Verdict: Charge was dismissed

Count 34: Corruption of minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 35: Endangering welfare of children
Verdict: Guilty.

VICTIM 8

Count 36: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 37: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 38: Unlawful contact with minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 39: Corruption of minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 40: Endangering welfare of children
Verdict: Guilty.

VICTIM 9

Count 41: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 42: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 43: Indecent assault
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 44: Unlawful contact with minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 45: Corruption of minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 46: Endangering welfare of children
Verdict: Guilty.

VICTIM 10

Count 47: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 48: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 49: Indecent assault
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 50: Unlawful contact with minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 51: Corruption of minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 52: Endangering welfare of children
Verdict: Guilty.

Since Jer was found guilty, I edited the original victim status to remove the alleged.

 

[BigCat]

Clearly it isnt. Sandusky's convictions included molestations that occurred at out of town games, IIRC. I will bring the conviction post over from one of the threads.

You're correct. He molested victim 4 at bowl games in Florida and Texas. Those, however, were Penn State events. The Second Mile was, at one point, claiming that there are no known instances of abuse at their events.

 

[believe09]

You're correct. He molested victim 4 at bowl games in Florida and Texas. Those, however, were Penn State events. The Second Mile was, at one point, claiming that there are no known instances of abuse at their events.

My bad. I misread the quote.

There is no way, imo, that there was no cross over. I bet LE is already looking at events that were either sponsored in part by Penn State or had any type of planning by Sandusky. Lots of opportunity to groom...

I wonder how many letters he wrote? Chances are good that most of the victims destroyed them...my heart breaks completely for them.

 

[BigCat]

This is a follow-up post to my previous one on Sandusky, Penn State, and the Second Mile.

Here's a quote from page 225 and 226 of his autobiography, Touched:

The month of June came around, and I was involved with coaching in the summer camps. Those camps had become such huge part of me. I had been in charge of the on-field operations, and now I had to decide what I was going to do. I thought of all the young people who had come through those football camps -- as well as the Second Mile camps -- and how they had touched my life. I wondered what they would think of me no longer being associated with Penn State football.

Sandusky's version does appear consistent with the Freeh report. pg 21.

A retirement agreement with Sandusky is reached in June 1999, including a unusual lump sum of $168,000, an agreement for the university to "work collaboratively" with Sandusky on Second Mile and other community activities, and free lifetime use of the East Area Locker Room facilities.

Sandusky needed an association with Penn State football to attract boys. It was essential.

Here's where I think the Paterno loyalists are going with their defense of JoePa: Schultz never told Curley the sexual nature of the allegations in 98 (who knows? It could been check fraud or grand theft), and, thus, Curley never told Paterno. Had Curley and Paterno known the nature of the allegations, they would have never negotiated a retirement settlement that basically set the stage for Sandusky's future crimes.

I'm not saying I buy it; I just see the arguments on the PSU football boards headed in that direction.

If evidence turns up that Paterno knew specifically about the sexual nature of the allegations, they would have to find another fall back position. I'm sure they'll come up with something.

 

[ynotdivein]

Small OT, but we are now a Forum, and I want to get this information out there...

Since the Sandusky case has now evolved into a feautured case discussion forum, someone might want to start a new thread on this particular aspect.

Done.

Forums are a bit different, peeps. For example, we will eventually do away with the General Discussion Thread altogether, and each topic will be assigned its own thread within this forum.

Some threads you might find helpful now or in the future:

- JS Sentencing
- Legal Action Against Spanier
- Legal Action Against Curley
- Legal Action Against Schultz
- Sanctions for Penn State Football? (potential poll thread)
- Statue of JoePa (another good potential poll thread)
- All Things Second Mile
- Paterno Family Response to Freeh Report

And more.

To create a new thread, go to the first page of the forum and look for the "New Thread" button just underneath the Sticky where the old General Discussion forums are.

As we add more threads, please do your best not to turn any of them back into a General Discussion thread--if a comment on the Freeh Report makes you think of something about Spanier, then post it on the Spanier thread.

Also, when you think of a thread topic, check first to make sure it is not a duplicate of a thread that already exists perhaps with a slightly different name.

Enjoy exploring your new space (and thanks to JBean, Kimster, Beach, SoSueMe, and everyone who helped build it for us!)...

:seeya:

Ynot

 

[Concerned Papa]

I'm an old man now, but I still feel the excitement and pride generated by college football. It played a role in who I am today. No one can fully appreciate the tremendous range of emotion felt when running out of a tunnel onto a field in front of 100,000 screaming fans unless you've suited up for your school.

Because many years ago I ran out of that tunnel on fall afternoons, it hurts me deeply to know of the heinous acts against humanity whose roots were associated with one of the greatest college football programs of all time. It hurts me to so fully understand and relate to the pain that must be felt by all Penn State alumni and fans.

The harshest penalty ever given to a football program by the NCAA was a 2 year "death penalty" to SMU in 1987. Their '87 season was cancelled and all home games for '88. Even though the sanction allowed play at the away games on their schedule for '88, SMU elected not to play those as well.

You know what the infraction was over? Recruiting rules violations including a slush fund that paid players amounts ranging from around $50 up to $700 per month. Pretty tame stuff stacked up next to the Penn State situation.

Was it fair to the tens of thousands of SMU alumni and fans? Absolutely not, but as a result of the NCAA sanctions, SMU emerged as a clean strong athletic program.

I can see no remedy for Penn State other than a "death penalty" period for their football program. A banishment of 2-5 years should ensure that all tentacles of a cancerous air of entitlement allowing a pedophile to run free in their program are removed.