Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

[CD82]

Since my post on page 7 (I think it was p.7) I have watched 2 more episodes and read more of the case information. I just have to say I don't know if he's guilty or not. There are things that point in both directions for me. The only things that makes me feel he was set up was the fact that there wasn't even Teresa's DNA on that key, just SA, and where's all the biological evidence in the house? It's not there! They looked high and low!

LE misconduct? Abso-friggin-lutely. The square key point is SO good! Unless she recently lost her keys and had to use the spare, I can't see how she'd leave the ones with her house key behind.

I also read a blog (I'll have to find the link) that links to the transcripts, and only half of Brendan's confession in the documentary. Also, only half of his conversation with his mother too. Apparently, he revealed a lot of things about SA that make him look like a skeezeball. Of course, he could be lying, which I'm still debating. This whole case just has me scratching my head!

It also said that SA personally called Auto Trader and requested Teresa specifically. That's a huge red flag. Let me try to find the link.

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movie...-evidence-making-a-murderer-didnt-present.php

Here you go. They said some sources are Reddit, but the links are what I looked at. This is pretty good. But leaves me scratching my head!

 

[stephsb]

That seems like a kind of 'iffy' source. It is a strange blog that has no cites listed, AFAIK.

He has daily trial diaries, which were done during the actual trials. The source would be him watching them himself. I followed the actual trials and find at least his trial notes to be relatively good sources


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[LemonMousse]

Since my post on page 7 (I think it was p.7) I have watched 2 more episodes and read more of the case information. I just have to say I don't know if he's guilty or not. There are things that point in both directions for me. The only things that makes me feel he was set up was the fact that there wasn't even Teresa's DNA on that key, just SA, and where's all the biological evidence in the house? It's not there! They looked high and low!

LE misconduct? Abso-friggin-lutely. The square key point is SO good! Unless she recently lost her keys and had to use the spare, I can't see how she'd leave the ones with her house key behind.

I also read a blog (I'll have to find the link) that links to the transcripts, and only half of Brendan's confession in the documentary. Also, only half of his conversation with his mother too. Apparently, he revealed a lot of things about SA that make him look like a skeezeball. Of course, he could be lying, which I'm still debating. This whole case just has me scratching my head!

It also said that SA personally called Auto Trader and requested Teresa specifically. That's a huge red flag. Let me try to find the link.

Teresa had been out to the yard about 6/7 times previously. He didn't request her by name...just as "the girl who was here before". She was self-employed, it's quite possible that she'd told him to ask for her again. That way she'd get paid for doing the work.

I can't see that as being a huge red flag.

Also, Brendan never, ever, ever reveals anything of substance or of a worrying nature without being led into it by the police. Not once. And that includes the "molestation".

I don't want to come over as Steven's cheerleader...he could be a murderer for all I know. But what is clear to me is that all evidence pointing to him is highly, highly questionable...and the circumstantial stuff could point to almost everyone else living in that compound.

 

[stephsb]

As far as I have seen, the petitions for both Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey were directed to President Obama. While people's hearts might be in the right place, those petitions are an exercise in futility. President Obama can't pardon anyone convicted of a state crime, he can only act on those convicted in Federal court.

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker could take action, but that wouldn't jibe with his political agenda, so that's not going to happen.

That said, I DO think public outcry can make a difference. I hope people will keep speaking up for those who have no voice aside from us. Injustice should not be silenced under any circumstances. JMO

Walker publicly commented yesterday that he will not pardon Avery, I'll see if I can find the link.


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[CD82]

Teresa had been out to the yard about 6/7 times previously. He didn't request her by name...just as "the girl who was here before". She was self-employed, it's quite possible that she'd told him to ask for her again. That way she'd get paid for doing the work.

I can't see that as being a huge red flag.

Also, Brendan never, ever, ever reveals anything of substance or of a worrying nature without being led into it by the police. Not once. And that includes the "molestation".

I don't want to come over as Steven's cheerleader...he could be a murderer for all I know. But what is clear to me is that all evidence pointing to him is highly, highly questionable...and the circumstantial stuff could point to almost everyone else living in that compound.

Yes it's absolutely questionable. Absolutely circumstantial.

I am really wanting him to be innocent. When I see his interviews, see his face, I see an innocent man. When I see the sleezy tactics of LE and the Prosecution, I want to go shower, they're just that dirty.

BUT- when you're being tried based on circumstantial evidence, they factor EVERYTHING, and the documentary definitely left out a lot of things that might make you second guess. Teresa's camera and palm pilot were recovered from Avery's burn barrel. That's another red flag. Of course that could be planted too.

Avery still asked for her specifically-- whether he called her by her name or as "that girl who was here before" it doesn't matter. I'm just saying that when I read things like that, it gives me doubt. And the point of a trial is to determine BEYOND a reasonable doubt if a person is guilty or not guilty. There are way too many factors here.

 

[CD82]

Teresa had been out to the yard about 6/7 times previously. He didn't request her by name...just as "the girl who was here before". She was self-employed, it's quite possible that she'd told him to ask for her again. That way she'd get paid for doing the work.

I can't see that as being a huge red flag.

Also, Brendan never, ever, ever reveals anything of substance or of a worrying nature without being led into it by the police. Not once. And that includes the "molestation".

I don't want to come over as Steven's cheerleader...he could be a murderer for all I know. But what is clear to me is that all evidence pointing to him is highly, highly questionable...and the circumstantial stuff could point to almost everyone else living in that compound.

Also, it was said that Teresa told her boss that she felt uncomfortable going to Avery's property because of the towel incident. So unless she had previously told him to request her, I'm not really on board with that theory.

 

[Safeguard]

If they are innocent, then who killed her? She did go to his car yard that day, correct? Who killed her?

This is, in large part, what lead to my second viewing. As I read various opinions in comments, news accounts, forums ect... online. Avery was (quite literally) the last appointment she had. She vanished after her meeting with him.

So I watched it again and tried to visualize how that went; SA calls and specifically asks for Teresa Halbach to come take pictures of his sisters vehicle;

He tells everyone in the known universe that she is coming to his property;

Yet he has planned this all out and is "ready for her" (according to the prosecution), with his leg irons and handcuffs;

He has her shackled to his bed screaming for hours, then invites his severely delayed nephew to join him; blah, blah blah...

We know it did NOT happen the way the Prosecution laid it out.

So I tried to imagine; She comes for a per-arranged appointment with SA, was never heard from again, and later found murdered...BUT by whom?!

There are many, (MUCH more likely IMO), scenarios than just the one the prosecution shoved down our throats. "We planted tons of evidence, so Steven Avery is guilty!"

Even if SA DID kill her, in some unfathomable way, whether he planned it, just snapped for some reason, or accidentally killed her, he would have to be some kind of a Criminal Mastermind, a sophisticated and cunning psychopath, to behave so completely transparently without a single slip up.

Personally. I think Halbach left his property very much alive.

 

[Angelo]

That seems like a kind of 'iffy' source. It is a strange blog that has no cites listed, AFAIK.

IMO, this is a very well-written, informative site written by someone from Wisconsin who attended the trials.

 

[bessie]

Convoluted Brian is approved as a reference for this case.

 

[LemonMousse]

Yes it's absolutely questionable. Absolutely circumstantial.

I am really wanting him to be innocent. When I see his interviews, see his face, I see an innocent man. When I see the sleezy tactics of LE and the Prosecution, I want to go shower, they're just that dirty.

BUT- when you're being tried based on circumstantial evidence, they factor EVERYTHING, and the documentary definitely left out a lot of things that might make you second guess. Teresa's camera and palm pilot were recovered from Avery's burn barrel. That's another red flag. Of course that could be planted too.

Avery still asked for her specifically-- whether he called her by her name or as "that girl who was here before" it doesn't matter. I'm just saying that when I read things like that, it gives me doubt. And the point of a trial is to determine BEYOND a reasonable doubt if a person is guilty or not guilty. There are way too many factors here.

Well, I agree, really.

But it's always worth remembering that the first time the jury took a vote, the majority wanted to acquit.

The biggest worry for me with Steven's possible guilt is the call he made to her phone after she had supposedly left. That could be a pocket dial, of course, but maybe not. Maybe he was trying to locate her phone?

Oh, and the burnt phone & camera was in the documentary. I don't get why this is significant given that her bones were a few feet from her bedroom! If they could have been moved, then why not her belongings?

 

[LemonMousse]

Also, it was said that Teresa told her boss that she felt uncomfortable going to Avery's property because of the towel incident. So unless she had previously told him to request her, I'm not really on board with that theory.

There's no evidence at all that she told her boss she felt uncomfortable going.

She laughingly mentioned to a receptionist that he'd answered the door in a towel, saying, "ewwww".

If going bothered her, why did she? She must have recognised the address having been so many times before.

This is all Kratz propaganda that, IMO, is nowhere near as damning at he's trying to suggest.

 

[Angelo]

Also, it was said that Teresa told her boss that she felt uncomfortable going to Avery's property because of the towel incident. So unless she had previously told him to request her, I'm not really on board with that theory.

Teresa did not tell her boss she was uncomfortable going to the Avery's.

"Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Patrick Willis would not allow Dawn Pliszka, an Auto Trader receptionist at the time, to testify about one of Halbach’s previous encounters with Avery.

“She had stated to me that he had come out in a towel,’’ Pliszka said while the jury was outside of the courtroom. “I just said, ‘Really?’ and then she said, ‘Yeah,’ and laughed and said kinda ‘Ew.’’’

Willis said he could not allow the testimony because the date wasn’t clear and few details were known about the alleged encounter."

http://chippewa.com/news/victim-s-c...cle_fb32d5b4-4569-53de-bb0c-c6e2beccd56e.html

 

[keeponsearching]

Was the statement over Teresa being creep out every written down by the person who said it? I see Kratz had mention it.

I see while I was searching the net, others have done their searching too. THanks!

 

[JanIreland]

A mastermind he was not ...her bones were found outside his house , that to me points towards someone that's not that bright at all ..unless people think the bones were planted too in which case ... we have both a mastermind at play and one of the unluckiest guys I have ever come cross.

 

[CD82]

Teresa did not tell her boss she was uncomfortable going to the Avery's.

"Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Patrick Willis would not allow Dawn Pliszka, an Auto Trader receptionist at the time, to testify about one of Halbach’s previous encounters with Avery.

“She had stated to me that he had come out in a towel,’’ Pliszka said while the jury was outside of the courtroom. “I just said, ‘Really?’ and then she said, ‘Yeah,’ and laughed and said kinda ‘Ew.’’’

Willis said he could not allow the testimony because the date wasn’t clear and few details were known about the alleged encounter."

http://chippewa.com/news/victim-s-c...cle_fb32d5b4-4569-53de-bb0c-c6e2beccd56e.html

Thanks guys for clarifying, you and Lemon.
I'm trying to be as partial as possible. There's just so much "meat" to this case! I feel like once I start leaning in one direction, I see something that leans me in the opposite direction.

I despise Kratz, I think he's a d-bag. And way too dramatic.

I am only at episode 7 so maybe I missed the part about her stuff being in the burn barrel, or I haven't gotten there yet.

 

[SCHMAE]

Idk. Because the young nephew knew that uncle will be rolling in big big big money soon, due to the ongoing civil suit during that time.

Plus uncle steve gave up other possible leads during that time.

So why would nephew implicate uncle. If nephew knew that uncle was going to get millions soon.

So maybe Steven was truly involved. Idk.

But for Steven sake.

Maybe they will give him the 20 years timed served for the false imprisonment.

Because I truly think that the false imprisonment lead to him doing this in the long run.

This is a basic Stockholm Syndrome Case in any lawyers eyes. Jmo.

A victim of abuse who retaliates against another person that had nothing to do with things. Can still be considered Stockholm or temporarily insane. Jmo for now.

Offtopic slightly, but you have no idea how many times I have thought we need the "real'' Dexter Morgan to talk about this case and that bedroom and that garage. He would so ' no one was killed in here ' period.

 

[NothingClever]

Her bones were found in three different places so the palm pilot and phone being in one of those three places is really not that surprising to me.

 

[LemonMousse]

A mastermind he was not ...her bones were found outside his house , that to me points towards someone that's not that bright at all ..unless people think the bones were planted too in which case ... we have both a mastermind at play and one of the unluckiest guys I have ever come cross.

Well, dumb enough to plant her remains outside his bedroom window but smart enough to sanitise to an extraordinary degree the garage in which he shot her...carefully remembering to replace the months of grime so it looks as if it hasn't been cleaned at all.

And it's not we on the thread positing that her bones were moved....two PhD level experts on the stand testified to the likelihood of this.

Steven wasn't unlucky.....he was hated.

 

[SCHMAE]

Teresa had been out to the yard about 6/7 times previously. He didn't request her by name...just as "the girl who was here before". She was self-employed, it's quite possible that she'd told him to ask for her again. That way she'd get paid for doing the work.

I can't see that as being a huge red flag.

Also, Brendan never, ever, ever reveals anything of substance or of a worrying nature without being led into it by the police. Not once. And that includes the "molestation".

I don't want to come over as Steven's cheerleader...he could be a murderer for all I know. But what is clear to me is that all evidence pointing to him is highly, highly questionable...and the circumstantial stuff could point to almost everyone else living in that compound.

The way you worded this has me thinking. If the cops ' believed' every word Brendan said and he has said SA molested him, why didn't they pursue that line of questioning farther and charge SA with molesting a child ? He was a very minor child at the time. :thinking:

I mean they want to get SA so badly and a child relative of his is in their office saying he's been molested! Why not charge SA with that ? Why just ignore it ? The county IGNORED an outcry from a victim of sexual assault in their presence on camera and nothing was ever said about it again by LE .

 

[SCHMAE]

Well, I agree, really.

But it's always worth remembering that the first time the jury took a vote, the majority wanted to acquit.

The biggest worry for me with Steven's possible guilt is the call he made to her phone after she had supposedly left. That could be a pocket dial, of course, but maybe not. Maybe he was trying to locate her phone?

Oh, and the burnt phone & camera was in the documentary. I don't get why this is significant given that her bones were a few feet from her bedroom! If they could have been moved, then why not her belongings?

Or maybe someone on the property just told him what they had done to her and he was checking on her to see if it might be true ? Totally devil's advocate , just saying it could be .