Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

[NothingClever]

The people who said he was framed said that because we watched it. ( read the transcripts, discussed the case ect...). These were not innocent "mistakes" made by LE. Thousands of people were not "tricked" into believing these two were framed, by some clever Documentariens skillful editing.

This is what I find so infuriating about the, "SA's guilty, evidence wasn't planted, Doc was biased" crowd; They never offer anything to back up this (imo ridicules claim), just some vague insinuation that they "know better than we simpletons who believe fake tv drama" .

Agreed. I have no idea if he's guilty or innocent but there are so many holes and unanswered questions and evidence that simply doesn't make any sense.

I think the MaM did a great job at pointing out the flaws in our justice system....in this case, yes, it shows the flaws that "benefit" the defense and make it seem defense heavy. I'm sure there are tons of cases that if a doc was done it could show flaws that benefit the prosecution. Regardless...the system is flawed and there was enough reasonable doubt in this case that he should not have been convicted in the first place....or a new trial should have been held.

 

[NothingClever]

OJ and Casey Anthony steadfastly professed their innocence from day one and I doubt if many of us believe that. Guilty people rarely say they are guilty. So him claiming innocence from day one doesn't really sway me one way or the other.

This is true...and it doesn't sway me either. However I will say that CA was caught in so many lies her saying she was innocent was just another.

 

[LunaticFringe]

I have a few questions.Hope someone knows the answers.

1.Did they find Teresa's camera?Was it in the burn barrel?
2.Were the charred bones in the quarry area positively identified as hers?

 

[Safeguard]

I have a few questions.Hope someone knows the answers.

1.Did they find Teresa's camera?Was it in the burn barrel?
2.Were the charred bones in the quarry area positively identified as hers?

Hi Lunatic (LOVE your use name heh!),
I believe the answer to both your questions is yes.

 

[ElleElle]

This is, in large part, what lead to my second viewing. As I read various opinions in comments, news accounts, forums ect... online. Avery was (quite literally) the last appointment she had. She vanished after her meeting with him.

So I watched it again and tried to visualize how that went; SA calls and specifically asks for Teresa Halbach to come take pictures of his sisters vehicle;

He tells everyone in the known universe that she is coming to his property;

Yet he has planned this all out and is "ready for her" (according to the prosecution), with his leg irons and handcuffs;

He has her shackled to his bed screaming for hours, then invites his severely delayed nephew to join him; blah, blah blah...

We know it did NOT happen the way the Prosecution laid it out.

So I tried to imagine; She comes for a per-arranged appointment with SA, was never heard from again, and later found murdered...BUT by whom?!

There are many, (MUCH more likely IMO), scenarios than just the one the prosecution shoved down our throats. "We planted tons of evidence, so Steven Avery is guilty!"

Even if SA DID kill her, in some unfathomable way, whether he planned it, just snapped for some reason, or accidentally killed her, he would have to be some kind of a Criminal Mastermind, a sophisticated and cunning psychopath, to behave so completely transparently without a single slip up.

Personally. I think Halbach left his property very much alive.

BBM ~ - Agreed.

Also, SA was waiting Jodi to get out of jail and was planning to marry her. He did not some seem to have any substance issues when he was released either.

He may have been rough around the edges, bu, to me, there is no substantial evidence of a crime at the property except for the bones (which, IMO, anyone can dump). He is not that smart to get away with this and certainly not the mentally slow nephew.

This may not be popular opinion, but since Day 1, I always felt TH's brother was creepy. You know, the type that dives into the the investigation.

 

[mcwhit]

Hello all, this is my first post. Forgive me if this has been discussed at length in previous postings (I've tried to catch up!): What could possibly be the explanation for the police officer (Colborn?) calling to id the car two days before it is found? When hearing that in the doc, I was literally dumbfounded.

 

[CD82]

For me it was that plus his demeanor. OJ and Casey just oozed guilt, IMO

Yes I agree. When I see him, even from the interviews when Teresa was missing, he didn't even look excited or nervous. Calm, direct, factual. LE's antics and behavior was a lot more suspicious during the trial than SA! Look at their examinations or interviews with media. Shifty, nervous, lack of eye contact. At the very least, they know something they don't want us to know. At the most, this was all a huge scheme to get SA back in prison.

Casey Anthony, on the other hand, had very suspicious behavior while her daughter was missing (partying and all that). OJ....well, yeah.

 

[keeponsearching]

I can't find the video, but When SA was asked a few questions outside his home at night. When was that? The 4th? Or was it after she was found? I think it was on the doc, but can't find the video here.

 

[ElleElle]

Well, I agree, really.

But it's always worth remembering that the first time the jury took a vote, the majority wanted to acquit.

The biggest worry for me with Steven's possible guilt is the call he made to her phone after she had supposedly left. That could be a pocket dial, of course, but maybe not. Maybe he was trying to locate her phone?

Oh, and the burnt phone & camera was in the documentary. I don't get why this is significant given that her bones were a few feet from her bedroom! If they could have been moved, then why not her belongings?

BBM ~ Maybe he just called her because he had a simple question?

And how about her brother and ex-BF who "knew" or "guessed" her phone passwords? And, WHY were some of her messages deleted when she was an endangered person?

Maybe they were messages for "another photo appointment", that set her up for her demise.

 

[ElleElle]

The people who said he was framed said that because we watched it. ( read the transcripts, discussed the case ect...). These were not innocent "mistakes" made by LE. Thousands of people were not "tricked" into believing these two were framed, by some clever Documentariens skillful editing.

This is what I find so infuriating about the, "SA's guilty, evidence wasn't planted, Doc was biased" crowd; They never offer anything to back up this (imo ridicules!) claim, just some vague insinuation that they "know better than we simpletons who believe fake tv drama" .

When you watch the LE's faces it is quite clear to me they are hiding something.

Sometimes it's not about the words, but the body language, which speaks volumes.

 

[ElleElle]

OJ and Casey Anthony steadfastly professed their innocence from day one and I doubt if many of us believe that. Guilty people rarely say they are guilty. So him claiming innocence from day one doesn't really sway me one way or the other.

Different circumstances. OJ fled, right? CA made up "Zanny the nanny", which to me is not normal.

SA was straight right from the beginning.

 

[SCHMAE]

"The Truth Makes A Sound Like The Ring Of A Bell".

Did you hear that sound from CA or OJ? I didn't. They were all over the place lying. And you could TELL.

I DO hear it in this case from SA. (Just as clearly as it sounds markedly FALSE when listening to Kratz).

I am not claiming he is innocent nor guilty. I am just saying claiming innocence doesn't factor in to my decision. My decision which has , to date, landed me atop a pointy fence post !

 

[SCHMAE]

I have a few questions.Hope someone knows the answers.

1.Did they find Teresa's camera?Was it in the burn barrel?
2.Were the charred bones in the quarry area positively identified as hers?

My DH kept asking during the docu ' how do we know it's her''. I must have missed a few scenes . Who tested the remains in the fire pit or any other remains and was that mentioned in the docu? I just assume there must have been testing to verify that was Teresa but considering all of the other ' whoopsies' by LE and DA , who knows ?

 

[ElleElle]

Hello all, this is my first post. Forgive me if this has been discussed at length in previous postings (I've tried to catch up!): What could possibly be the explanation for the police officer (Colborn?) calling to id the car two days before it is found? When hearing that in the doc, I was literally dumbfounded.

That is it's own was enough for me to have reasonable doubt. LE calls in a plate when it is found, correct??

 

[rocket_girl]

Did anyone see the TMZ article stating that SA has suggested it could be one of his brothers. IMO that is most likely explanation. Even reading Brendan's wild confessions made me believe he may know something. Maybe he was even coerced into blaming SA by the real killer.

I think what stuck out most for me is the call from the cop asking if SA has been apprehended once the RAV4 is found. At that point there was no other evidence against SA other than he was the last to see her. Why jump to assuming it was him when there were so many others with access to the property etc...

 

[CD82]

Did anyone see the TMZ article stating that SA has suggested it could be one of his brothers. IMO that is most likely explanation. Even reading Brendan's wild confessions made me believe he may know something. Maybe he was even coerced into blaming SA by the real killer.

I think what stuck out most for me is the call from the cop asking if SA has been apprehended once the RAV4 is found. At that point there was no other evidence against SA other than he was the last to see her. Why jump to assuming it was him when there were so many others with access to the property etc...

During the testimonies of both the stepfather of Brendan, and Brendan's brother, I was suspicious as heck with them. Especially since they both made it a point to "alibi" one another-- almost like they were in on it and wanted to pin it on someone else.

 

[LunaticFringe]

My DH kept asking during the docu ' how do we know it's her''. I must have missed a few scenes . Who tested the remains in the fire pit or any other remains and was that mentioned in the docu? I just assume there must have been testing to verify that was Teresa but considering all of the other ' whoopsies' by LE and DA , who knows ?

I had thought that the remains found in the pit behind Steven's home still had some muscle tissue attached and they were able to identify her through DNA.I just wasn't sure about the remains found at the quarry.I was wondering if perhaps they were the remains of someone else.

 

[mcwhit]

@ElleElle....

Yes Colborn calls it in from his phone, not police radio, two days before the car was found at the salvage yard. Was he doing an illegal search on the Avery property and found it? Or was it found elsewhere by him and brought to Avery property?

 

[ElleElle]

@ElleElle....

Yes Colborn calls it in from his phone, not police radio, two days before the car was found at the salvage yard. Was he doing an illegal search on the Avery property and found it? Or was it found elsewhere by him and brought to Avery property?

Either or I suppose. To me it seems like the RAV4 was planted there. The way it was covered was not natural, IMO. Also, it is right the entrance of a 40 acre property. How convenient?

Ant, BTW ~ :welcome:

 

[NothingClever]

I had thought that the remains found in the pit behind Steven's home still had some muscle tissue attached and they were able to identify her through DNA.I just wasn't sure about the remains found at the quarry.I was wondering if perhaps they were the remains of someone else.

IIRC the few pieces of bone in the quarry had the same burn pattern that were consistent with the ones from the pit and the burning barrel. I think the dna was too degraded in the burn barrel and the quarry to match to TH. I believe one of the bones in the pit had a piece of muscle tissue still attached.