Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

[CD82]

:facepalm:

 

[SCHMAE]

In my search for something else, I came across this document. It is from BD's court case and it lists the exhibits, starting on page 12.
http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazonaws.com/dassey/courtdocs/courtRecordEvents06CF88.pdf

These are what stood out to me:
Exhibit 48, photo of handcuffs taken from Barb Tadych's bedroom.
Exhibit 49, photo of Barb Tadych's bedroom showing handcuffs and leg irons.
Exhibit 50, photo of leg irons taken from Barb Tadych's residence.
Exhibit 61, pink fur-lined leg irons.

Exhibit 84, photo of handcuffs found in Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 85, photo of leg irons found in Avery's bedroom
Exhibit 91, handcuffs seized from Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 92, leg irons seized from Avery's bedroom

Exhibit 95, photo of burn barrel located in the front yard of Steven Avery's residence.
Exhibit 96, photo of the interior of the burn barrel.
Exhibit 97, photo of burned pieces of three electronic devices recovered from the burn barrel.

I have seen questions, and I have had the same questions about some of these items. The handcuffs/leg irons were NOT burned, they were photographed and taken in as evidence from both Barb's and Steven's residences. Exhibit 61 says pink fur lined leg irons, I'm assuming but not sure that they are the same one's photographed?

The camera, phone, and I think palm pilot were found in a burn barrel in SA's front yard... not the burn site behind the garage. So he burned them separately? and then left them in the front yard???

I am having a hard time finding some stuff online now .... someone had put a ton of documents on dropbox but I can't seem to access them now, and I can't get to convolutedbrians website now, it says that the account has been suspended, I was surprised the above link still worked ;-)

I thought the leg irons and handcuffs were found in burn barrel ? Not so, I guess. So ...... they found the handcuffs and leg irons Teresa was tied up with and struggling for her life but they had no dna of hers on them .........

ETA Excellent post Missy. Tks for sharing. I've been wondering about the handcuffs ' in the burn barrel' comment for some time.

 

[stephsb]

I have come to the conclusion that rape is not even something we should assume happened. I do believe that they found these items and then decided they were something they could feed to brendan and get some reaction or statement involving them, which they did.

Police found the cuffs and leg irons in Barb Janda's bedroom the day they recovered the bleached pants and discovered the recording of teresa halbach on Barb Janda's answering machine.

Steve also had cuffs and leg irons.

But there is ZERO evidence that these items were used in relation to halbach. No prints, no dna, nothing. Avery, Janda, Tadych or Jodi's prints on these would make sense. I don't even see evidence that they tested for prints or dna. But I have to believe that if they found Brendan's or halbach's on those items, we'd know about it.


All that being said, I do think that if Steve Avery did do this, the motive would likely be sexually related.

But I don't see the cuffs and irons relevant UNLESS brendan mentioned them BEFORE police told them they existed. Which seems unlikely since the interviews are filled with the police throwing out things for him to hopefully repeat in an incriminating way.

Leg irons were not brought up by Brendan. He initially mentions her tied with rope. He actually never says the word leg iron himself. I posted the relevant excerpts from his statements earlier in the discussion


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[Desertwind]

After finishing all 10 episodes; I was fairly certain this would be another WM3 type case; but I started reading other info, such as Dassey transcripts, interviews, etc. While I do think that Brendan's first attorney should be disbarred, and the Investigator was helping the prosecution; once the interviews get going, there are certain things that don't really change. I do believe that they are both guilty(at least today - I am still reading). I also believe that the Manitowoc County law enforcement planted evidence, because they wanted to be sure of a conviction, and I'd like to see something come out of that.
It is extremely scary to me that there sure seems to be a large number of sex crimes in the family - makes me wonder a lot about their history.
I also think that SA really believed he could get away with it, and say the police were framing him and all would be well, after the first crime.

 

[missy1974]

I've been here for years and I have no idea what is appropriate and allowed in cutting quotes so they are not super long... lol Usually I don't reply with quote.

I thought what I have in bold above was burned also wth. I wonder whose dna showed up on them.......

I have seen the question or statements that they were burned, so when I seen that, I thought I would share. I have to wonder about the DNA as well. A lot of this case is not about the DNA/prints found, but the DNA/prints NOT found for me. I'm going to assume there was absolutely no trace of TH on those items since I have not seen/read anything that indicates there was.

 

[MaxManning]

None of the outraged masses claiming corruption by law enforcement to enhance the murder case against Avery will ever admit it but there was far more valid evidence of police corruption in California v Simpson than exists in tbd Avery case.

I hear you, and personally I am not convinced things were planted, but I am very open to an investigation because there are sketchy elements preceding this case.

First, it is a fact that Avery was wrongfully convicted of rape by the same people that found key evidence. That was not the case in the OJ trial.
Second, it is a fact that the investigators in that case were informed of the more likely suspect and had means to show the person in the lineup and declined to do both. This was not the case in the OJ trial.
Third, the guys that found key evidence implicating Avery , are the guys listed in the 36Million dollar lawsuit. This was not the case in the OJ trial

So, those are the three reasons that I am open to hearing if they possibly did things once again with tunnel vision on Avery.

Doesn't mean I believe they planted things, but I can't rule out behavior that was already proven to have occurred. Not planting specifically, but isn't excluding evidence/suspects equally as unethical ?

Lets not forget that OJ simpson had far more means to investigate and scrutinize the investigation. Yes, Steve Avery had enough money via his settlement to get some quality lawyers, however they had nowhere near the resources to investigate the other potential suspects in this case.

Lets not forget that in the OJ trial there was NO alternative suspect.

Here... we have Chuck and Earl Avery, both with same access to the yard as Steve. Both convicted of sexual crimes in the past.
Tadych who mentions to a coworker the day avery was arrested that one of his sons had blood on his pants that maybe got mixed in his laundry ?
Earl Avery hides under clothes when the police come to question him ?
We have prosecution acknowledging in the trial that they didn't even investigate the ex-boyfriend even though he admits to being in her voicemail and it's factual that voicemails were deleted after her disappearance.


So, yes, I get your point on some level.

But can you at least admit that theres a whole lot more reason to be skeptical here than in OJ case, and that the investigation was poor, and that the man wasn't getting a fair trial due to that ?

This is coming from someone who has said I think the "simplest" conclusion is that Avery did it based on what we know.

But how can I not acknowledge that law enforcement ignored a whole cast of potential suspects ? Point me to the other suspect in the OJ case, beyond the faceless mysterious drug dealer ?

Make sense ?

This case is a living Fargo season imo.

Update -- I also want to note that I am the one that said there are many bandwagoneers here that are closing their eyes to evidence that avery might be guilty. I am also the one who said that I felt the documentary was manipulative - took heat for saying both.

But to compare this to OJ trial in the way that you did, is a bit of a stretch. Only point I get is your inference that the masses have been manipulated by that documentary. -- i agree on that.

 

[norest4thewicked]

After finishing all 10 episodes; I was fairly certain this would be another WM3 type case; but I started reading other info, such as Dassey transcripts, interviews, etc. While I do think that Brendan's first attorney should be disbarred, and the Investigator was helping the prosecution; once the interviews get going, there are certain things that don't really change. I do believe that they are both guilty(at least today - I am still reading). I also believe that the Manitowoc County law enforcement planted evidence, because they wanted to be sure of a conviction, and I'd like to see something come out of that.
It is extremely scary to me that there sure seems to be a large number of sex crimes in the family - makes me wonder a lot about their history.
I also think that SA really believed he could get away with it, and say the police were framing him and all would be well, after the first crime.

I am thinking along the exact same lines as you are.

 

[SCHMAE]

After finishing all 10 episodes; I was fairly certain this would be another WM3 type case; but I started reading other info, such as Dassey transcripts, interviews, etc. While I do think that Brendan's first attorney should be disbarred, and the Investigator was helping the prosecution; once the interviews get going, there are certain things that don't really change. I do believe that they are both guilty(at least today - I am still reading). I also believe that the Manitowoc County law enforcement planted evidence, because they wanted to be sure of a conviction, and I'd like to see something come out of that.
It is extremely scary to me that there sure seems to be a large number of sex crimes in the family - makes me wonder a lot about their history.
I also think that SA really believed he could get away with it, and say the police were framing him and all would be well, after the first crime.

I've thought about this a lot. Did SA think they ( the law ) ' owed him one' ? He did the time for one he did not do so he may think he can balance the scales of justiice by committing the crime after the fact. Did he think because of the false imprisonment he would be automatically believed this time? I did find one interview in front of his house very early on suspicious in that he mentioned then a 'frame job' before he's even arrested. Things that make you go hmmm and all speculative!

 

[Safeguard]

Yes, I can see that is your opinion. Doesn't make it so, however.

I would so love to hear how you believe the key got there. After six searches of that one little room, it only could be seen by lenk? Does he have a bionic eye? A divining rod? Or a key in his pocket.

 

[norest4thewicked]

I would so love to hear how you believe the key got there. After six searches of that one little room, it only could be seen by lenk? Does he have a bionic eye? A divining rod? Or a key in his pocket.

Do you have specifics on the size of the room? How many exact searches there were? Where in the testimony did you get your information? Just curious...

 

[stephsb]

After finishing all 10 episodes; I was fairly certain this would be another WM3 type case; but I started reading other info, such as Dassey transcripts, interviews, etc. While I do think that Brendan's first attorney should be disbarred, and the Investigator was helping the prosecution; once the interviews get going, there are certain things that don't really change. I do believe that they are both guilty(at least today - I am still reading). I also believe that the Manitowoc County law enforcement planted evidence, because they wanted to be sure of a conviction, and I'd like to see something come out of that.
It is extremely scary to me that there sure seems to be a large number of sex crimes in the family - makes me wonder a lot about their history.
I also think that SA really believed he could get away with it, and say the police were framing him and all would be well, after the first crime.

I'm just curious what you find in Dassey's statements that lead you to believe he is guilty


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[MaxManning]

He was also part of a group, wasn't he? Young men + mob mentality + low IQ + showing off + alcohol = terrible things happen all the time. I don't think it's the same as a budding serial killer torturing animals in private, sober.

Thanks for this post here. This is the context that I evaluate Avery's cat incident. I in no way minimize the actions, but there is a difference in the motivations worth noting.

But as with the driving someone off the road and pulling a gun on someone, I see it as evidence that he is capable of violence given a motive. Most people would do neither of these things, and find them horrific.

So one can come to their own conclusions on whether individuals that do these things, might be capable of doing even worse things given another motivation. Myself, I say that it's indicative of Avery not having control of himself at times and being capable of doing things that most would never do. Things that he even says after the fact, it was a mistake and I can't believe I did it. -- loss of control.

So I can't evaluate these things as being irrelevant. But certainly I see the difference in context between this behavior and that of a serial killer who often note impulses that are not based on more defined motivations.

 

[Safeguard]

One of the officers from Calmut county, testified. When he was asked why the key was not found during prior searches in that exact spot, he said," Because it wasn't there"

I would look for those specifics for you now, but I am on my way to an appointment...

I'll have to look up the episode info, but there are plenty of other posts on line regarding the previous searches of that room.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

For the first time ever, the White House has issued a special Decision Maker response to an online petition.

The petition in question? None other than one imploring President Barack Obama to pardon Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey, the inmates at the center of the controversial Netflix documentary “Making a Murderer.”

http://crimefeed.com/2016/01/white-...tion-to-free-steven-avery-and-brendan-dassey/

Well, it ain't great, but it ain't all that bad.

 

[shadowraiths]

I am having a hard time finding some stuff online now .... someone had put a ton of documents on dropbox but I can't seem to access them now, and I can't get to convolutedbrians website now, it says that the account has been suspended, I was surprised the above link still worked ;-)

ConvolutedBrians site is still available. Here is the section for Avery.

Here is the page containing links to the dropbox documents. However, that is hit or miss, as the access gets temporarily suspended when too many people (i.e., media, etc) try to access it at once. This is actually an anti-DDoS "feature."

 

[MaxManning]

I've thought about this a lot. Did SA think they ( the law ) ' owed him one' ? He did the time for one he did not do so he may think he can balance the scales of justiice by committing the crime after the fact. Did he think because of the false imprisonment he would be automatically believed this time? I did find one interview in front of his house very early on suspicious in that he mentioned then a 'frame job' before he's even arrested. Things that make you go hmmm and all speculative!

I hear you, and have had this thought process as well.

But you have to also temper it with, the man was in jail for 18 years for a crime he didn't commit, based on an investigation that excluded the actual rapist intentionally.

So some degree of paranoia , imo, might be warranted. I can imagine someone like that might even have nightmares about having to go back to jail because the same thing happened again.

Despite how much we have seen of Avery in the context of the documentary and TV interviews etc, none of us have seen/experienced what Steve Avery is like in a normal situation. So we don't get any idea of whether he is a cocky/arrogant person. So I do see your point and I can see the logic that someone in his situation might think that way given a certain personality type.

 

[missy1974]

ConvolutedBrians site is still available. Here is the section for Avery.

Here is the page containing links to the dropbox documents. However, that is hit or miss, as the access gets temporarily suspended when too many people (i.e., media, etc) try to access it at once. This is actually an anti-DDoS "feature."

hmmmm I'm getting this message when clicking the link ....

Sorry, The page you are looking for has gone missing
or does not exist.
Let me help you find the way. You can start here
at
Brian the Brain's Home
when clicking the link in the message it directs me to Brian the Brain Photography and it's all insects :scared:

is this link working for anyone else?

 

[SoBeCzar]

In my search for something else, I came across this document. It is from BD's court case and it lists the exhibits, starting on page 12.
http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazonaws.com/dassey/courtdocs/courtRecordEvents06CF88.pdf

These are what stood out to me:
Exhibit 48, photo of handcuffs taken from Barb Tadych's bedroom.
Exhibit 49, photo of Barb Tadych's bedroom showing handcuffs and leg irons.
Exhibit 50, photo of leg irons taken from Barb Tadych's residence.
Exhibit 61, pink fur-lined leg irons.

Exhibit 84, photo of handcuffs found in Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 85, photo of leg irons found in Avery's bedroom
Exhibit 91, handcuffs seized from Avery's bedroom.
Exhibit 92, leg irons seized from Avery's bedroom

Exhibit 95, photo of burn barrel located in the front yard of Steven Avery's residence.
Exhibit 96, photo of the interior of the burn barrel.
Exhibit 97, photo of burned pieces of three electronic devices recovered from the burn barrel.

I have seen questions, and I have had the same questions about some of these items. The handcuffs/leg irons were NOT burned, they were photographed and taken in as evidence from both Barb's and Steven's residences. Exhibit 61 says pink fur lined leg irons, I'm assuming but not sure that they are the same one's photographed?

The camera, phone, and I think palm pilot were found in a burn barrel in SA's front yard... not the burn site behind the garage. So he burned them separately? and then left them in the front yard???

I am having a hard time finding some stuff online now .... someone had put a ton of documents on dropbox but I can't seem to access them now, and I can't get to convolutedbrians website now, it says that the account has been suspended, I was surprised the above link still worked ;-)

Avery ended up not even being charged with sexual assault. Brendans' testimony was never used. He was found guilty of having a gun while being a felon and the murder of Teresa. He was acquitted of mutilation of a corpse. So the handcuffs and the sexual implications were deemed by the prosecutor himself not to be enough to even charge Avery with sexual assault. He agreed to drop that charge. When people say the documentary had evidence the film did not include most of it was hearsay that implied a sexual interest or cites handcuffs and leg irons but that was not even one of the charges.
Not saying you were implying this at all. Just wanted to make that statement.

 

[Desertwind]

Not working for me either....

 

[norest4thewicked]

Can someone explain Convoluted Brian to me? I have never heard of him before and I've tried many times to get to his site but always get the Go Daddy sign up page, so have no idea who he is or what slant he has.