Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

[bessie]

I know it's a creepy question, and I apologize if it's already been asked and/or answered and I missed it but... any idea how long it would take to burn a body to the condition TH was found in a regular ole backyard bonfire?

According to this link, the burning process done in a crematorium takes approximately two to two-and-a-half hours but obviously those conditions are completely different. http://nfda.org/planning-a-funeral/cremation/160.html#long

Canadianwhitedove posted a couple of informative links in this post.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ary-on-Steven-Avery-2&p=12272823#post12272823

 

[SleepyLabRat]

Presumably, if blood changes in appearance over time then it must be because of chemical changes within it.

Surely to goodness this would be very easy for any chemist to detect...much easier, I'd have thought than resurrecting an unreliable test that hasn't been used in a decade to try and fimd EDTA.

Is this old blood or new blood? 11 year old vs 4 months old? If change is actually visible to the naked eye then it must be instantly detectable under a microscope.

I've been thinking about this and discussing it with a friend at work. The most easily detectable difference that I know of would be in the hemoglobin molecules. Hemoglobin is the protein inside red blood cells (RBCs) that carries the oxygen in blood and gives it the red color. As blood ages, the RBCs lyse (break open) and the hemoglobin molecules start to degrade. There are tests for things like Sickle Cell Disease and A1c levels (important for diabetics) that separate the hemoglobin molecules. There are several methods used, but one of the simplest uses a thin sheet of gel-like material called a gel. A pH gradient along with an electric current is applied across the gel and a small drop of blood is put on it. The different proteins in the blood move to specific points on the gel and form little bands, or stripes. And since hemoglobin is red, the bands it forms are very visible.
Fresh blood with undegraded hemoglobin forms very distinct bands. But as blood ages and the hemoglobin breaks down, the bands you see are much more fuzzy and smeared. It would be very easy to tell an old sample from a fresh sample by visualizing the hemoglobin in this way.
But, sadly, it's way too late for a test like that now [emoji53]

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[SleepyLabRat]

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge . Your input has been really helpful.

Thanks! I'm glad it helps! I've lurked for years but this is really the first time I felt like I had something to add to the discussion [emoji4]

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[kimi_SFC]

Nope. I'm a researcher in a laboratory that makes QA materials for blood-based tests. We use lots of blood and manipulate it in different ways to mimic disease states (mostly non-infectious metabolic disorders). Sometimes we're literally dealing with buckets of blood [emoji1]


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Thank you for joining us here SleepyLabRat! I'm really looking forward to hearing your perspective on this case (and maybe even others )!

:welcome4:


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[Really?]

Or crush the car?? Or nestle it among the 50 zillion other vehicles instead of conveniently leaving it on that ridge where it was found so easily??

......or be the only vehicle with a few branches and shrubbery lopped on it.smh

 

[rocket_girl]

The creators of the docuseries have stated on the Today Show that they have spoken with a juror who indicated they voted guilty as they feared for their life. If they made an official statement would that be enough for a new trial?

 

[loveisthemovement]

According to TMZ, SA no longer has a lawyer but is now representing himself? For some reason, that kind of bothers me. It goes against the "simple, IQ of 70" description from the show.

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/05/making-a-murderer-steven-avery-money-website-donations/

Mods, I can't remember if TMZ is allowed, please feel free to delete!

 

[NothingClever]

Link to Today Show story this morning about one of the jurors who just contacted the filmmakers: http://www.today.com/popculture/mak...ur-goal-was-question-us-justice-system-t65161

 

[Dogface]

Good point. Why didn't he burn the vehicle?

If he was so intent on getting rid of Teresa by burning her, why not stick her in the car and set fire to both?


Instead, he parks her car in his back yard (basically), hides the key in his bedroom, sticks her body in a bonfire outside his bedroom window in full view of everyone...AND invites his teenage nephew along?

I know that Steven can hardly be confused with Steven Hawking...but even so, he is not that flipping stupid!

Exactly! To me, someone who was so cautious about cleaning up everything else would have thought about the car and disposed of it more thoroughly. He had to know it would be found. So why leave it? The only possible thought I can come up with seems quite far fetched, which would have been keeping it as a trophy of sorts.

I can't recall how soon people started searching the property...could it have been his intention to dump it somewhere else?

And really I'm playing devils advocate with my own thoughts, as I really think the only explanation is that the car was there to frame him.

 

[Really?]

Link to Today Show story this morning about one of the jurors who just contacted the filmmakers: http://www.today.com/popculture/mak...ur-goal-was-question-us-justice-system-t65161

Wow oh wow....

Come to think of it....most were likely afraid to go against LE in fear. Especially the family members on the jury that " know" what you said. Yikes.

 

[SCHMAE]

Thanks! I'm glad it helps! I've lurked for years but this is really the first time I felt like I had something to add to the discussion [emoji4]

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So is it your ' expert opinion' ( i know you're not a verified insider on blood, but you may want to consider doing so ) that the blood in the rav 4 on the dash board was NOT several years old ? TIA

 

[SCHMAE]

According to TMZ, SA no longer has a lawyer but is now representing himself? For some reason, that kind of bothers me. It goes against the "simple, IQ of 70" description from the show.

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/05/making-a-murderer-steven-avery-money-website-donations/

Mods, I can't remember if TMZ is allowed, please feel free to delete!

If you read SA's own motion from the end of the last thread that some fabulous ws'er whose name escapes me posted, you will find he seems pretty dang smart but probably most of the motion was copy / pasted from other motions he had read but I was really impressed with it knowing he had prepared it himself.

ETA Went to find the link and hats off to Rain Check for finding and posting this.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ntary-on-Steven-Avery&p=12270467#post12270467

 

[Angelo]

I could see him hitting redial ,forgetting he called Theresa for the 4:35 call and thinking he was calling the last person he talked to prior to her.

I had the same thought and have done it myself many times.

 

[SCHMAE]

LOL , is this ok Mods ? We are downstairs.

https://twitter.com/LtJamesLenk

ETA I'm a twitter dummy so I do not know if this the acct associated with anonymous or not. Someone linked it days ago but I think it's just a satire acct having some fun and NOT really ' associated' with anonymous.

 

[loveisthemovement]

LOL , is this ok Mods ? We are downstairs.

https://twitter.com/LtJamesLenk

ETA I'm a twitter dummy so I do not know if this the acct associated with anonymous or not. Someone linked it days ago but I think it's just a satire acct having some fun and NOT really ' associated' with anonymous.

Hilarious!!! Good find. This one is along the same lines (love the name....lol): https://twitter.com/TomFseyebrow

 

[Tawny]

First - SleepyLabRat - What!? You haven't had anything to contribute about blood on a true crime website before!! You should get verified, it would be really cool to have someone who works with blood weigh in sometimes!

Keep watching. One of the most telling lines -- which evoked from me an audible wince -- is the one where BD tells his mom he guessed, just like he was used to doing with his homework. That line rings of nothing but truth.

Oh I so agree! It was those little innocent moments when he came across as completely without guile and you could just *tell* what he was really like and that he didn't have a CLUE what was going on and that things were happening to him that were 100% wrong.

The ones that also stood out to me were when he asked if he would be through by 1:30 and the interrogator asked him why - and he said he had a project due in that afternoon class. Totally clueless that he was being framed for murder and not only wasn't going back to school but was never going home again.

Then when he was talking to his mom about watching "Wrestle Mania". These are the immature young boy ideas that were foremost in his brain at a time when his entire life was hanging by a thread.

There is NO excuse for an authority figure to take advantage of him like this! Where was his safety net? How could the appellate judges not see what we all see? Are they all corrupt?

SA's guilt or innocence aside, my heart BREAKS for Brendan. That kid may not be innocent in the overall sense of the word, but he's innocent of THIS crime and it shines through in those little moments where he really has no clue how much trouble he's in. When he was asked if he had weapons on him and he said he had a cd player in his pockets and asked if he could get back in time for last period, I was tearing up so bad out of heartbreak, anger, and frustration. Even if SA can't get his conviction overturned, that kid should be let out yesterday. And then awarded something to help him get his life on track if he even ever had a chance of having a normal life. Poor kid.

 

[LemonMousse]

I've been thinking about this and discussing it with a friend at work. The most easily detectable difference that I know of would be in the hemoglobin molecules. Hemoglobin is the protein inside red blood cells (RBCs) that carries the oxygen in blood and gives it the red color. As blood ages, the RBCs lyse (break open) and the hemoglobin molecules start to degrade. There are tests for things like Sickle Cell Disease and A1c levels (important for diabetics) that separate the hemoglobin molecules. There are several methods used, but one of the simplest uses a thin sheet of gel-like material called a gel. A pH gradient along with an electric current is applied across the gel and a small drop of blood is put on it. The different proteins in the blood move to specific points on the gel and form little bands, or stripes. And since hemoglobin is red, the bands it forms are very visible.
Fresh blood with undegraded hemoglobin forms very distinct bands. But as blood ages and the hemoglobin breaks down, the bands you see are much more fuzzy and smeared. It would be very easy to tell an old sample from a fresh sample by visualizing the hemoglobin in this way.
But, sadly, it's way too late for a test like that now [emoji53]

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Fantastic. Thank you.

Makes me wonder why Marc LeBeau couldn't have performed this test.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I'm in the process of watching this, but last night I got to episode 4....this from the beginning of the case http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Marie-Halbach-25-Manitowoc-31-Oct-2005/page17 A quote from an article from Post # 243:

Calumet County District Attorney Ken Kratz says that's absurd. A judge appointed him to handle the case because he's from another jurisdiction, he said, adding DNA analysis has confirmed blood in Halbach's vehicle is Avery's.

Kratz said he's tired of addressing conspiracy theories. Planting evidence would mean someone is running around with vials of Avery's DNA, looking for a crime scene to splatter it over, Kratz said.

"It is not possible the evidence ... is tainted evidence or was in any way planted by a Manitowoc County law enforcement agency or any law enforcement agency, for that matter," Kratz said.

Don't know one way or the other on this case, BUT, that statement Kratz made in 2005, really makes ya think after they found the evidence box from the blood was opened in the documentary.

 

[paris_paris]

Everyone talked about how inconsistent Brendan’s story was. When Kachinsky’s investigator (O’Kelley) talked to him, Brendan wrote a statement about going home and playing video games. O’Kelley told him the statement was no good because it didn’t mention Teresa. Later Brendan wrote a letter to the judge saying he’d gone home and played video games. Then in court he testified he’d gone home and played video games. There were other details… the phone calls received, and when his Mom came home, and Steven calling him to come to the bonfire. He told all the details of that story 3 times and the details never changed.

It still doesn’t make sense to me that everyone saw Teresa taking photos of the vehicle around 2:30 - 2:45. Except the bus driver who saw Teresa at 3:30 - 3:40. But Brendan didn’t see her taking photos and he got off that bus.

The evidence box being found opened… I thought that was huge but then wondered if it wouldn’t have been opened to get samples to clear Steven of the first crime. *shrugs*

I wanted more information about Teresa’s plate being called in by LE before it was actually found.

 

[Tawny]

The evidence box being found opened… I thought that was huge but then wondered if it wouldn’t have been opened to get samples to clear Steven of the first crime. *shrugs*

.

RSBM

If that was what it was opened for, it would have been re-taped with the "evidence" or "sealed" tape. JMO!