Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

[Madeleine74]

But even now... with all the media attention.... even Kratz hasn't said that it was opened and taped up for any reason. If there was a reasonable explanation for it, wouldn't he say it now (even if it made them look bad lol)?

Kratz worked for Calumet County, he'd have no insight into that evidence box from Manitowoc County. Remember he was brought in to handle the prosecution for this 1 case only. Maybe he couldn't find the person who opened the evidence box and put scotch tape back on it. He likely had no clue this planting theory was going to involve some 10 year old blood until the issue was raised by the defense. The defense is not required to share their case strategy with the DA. The needle mark in the topper we now know is a very normal part of drawing blood based on common procedures. I also learned, from watching the Dateline special, the blood up around the bottom of the stopper is also completely normal.

 

[pleasestandby]

Kratz worked for Calumet County, he'd have no insight into that evidence box from Manitowoc County. Remember he was brought in to handle the prosecution for this 1 case only. Maybe he couldn't find the person who opened the evidence box and put scotch tape back on it. He likely had no clue this planting theory was going to involve some 10 year old blood until the issue was raised by the defense. The defense is not required to share their case strategy with the DA. The needle mark in the topper we now know is a very normal part of drawing blood based on common procedures. I also learned, from watching the Dateline special, the blood up around the bottom of the stopper is also completely normal.

Wouldn't it be possible to stick any amount of needles in the same hole that was already there without leaving a trace? Or even pop the rubber top off, draw some blood with a needle, and put it back on?

 

[Madeleine74]

Why are the juror's names being kept secret? This isn't a John Doe trial.

Juror names are never released to the public, not only in WI but in every jurisdiction. And, if you notice, jurors are also not photographed or filmed during a trial. If a juror wants to speak out after a case, they are free to do so. Some do, some don't.

 

[ElleElle]

Kratz worked for Calumet County, he'd have no insight into that evidence box from Manitowoc County. Remember he was brought in to handle the prosecution for this 1 case only. Maybe he couldn't find the person who opened the evidence box and put scotch tape back on it. He likely had no clue this planting theory was going to involve some 10 year old blood until the issue was raised by the defense. The defense is not required to share their case strategy with the DA. The needle mark in the topper we now know is a very normal part of drawing blood based on common procedures. I also learned, from watching the Dateline special, the blood up around the bottom of the stopper is also completely normal.

BBM ~ That is sloppy! But, don't you think there would be a log of who accessed the evidence box?

 

[Madeleine74]

Wouldn't it be possible to stick any amount of needles in the same hole that was already there without leaving a trace? Or even pop the rubber top off, draw some blood with a needle, and put it back on?

Just about anything is possible, I suppose. The question is, did that happen and is there any evidence of such a thing happening?

 

[Madeleine74]

BBM ~ That is sloppy! But, don't you think there would be a log of who accessed the evidence box?

There certainly should be, but in a 10 year old case (10 years since the blood draw) it appears the identity of the person and purpose of the opening of the box (first time 1996 and second time circa 2002 if I read it correctly) is still a mystery. The DA can only work with what he has, if there aren't detailed logs that were kept, the DA can't do anything about that and it becomes something the defense can exploit.

 

[pleasestandby]

Just about anything is possible, I suppose. The question is, did that happen and is there any evidence of such a thing happening?

The broken seals, the re-taped box? The sloppy storage of evidence in a clerk of courts office? Convenient. Was that the ONLY evidence from that one case that just happened to be stored there? Whatever happened to locked evidence rooms? Is their county the only county in Wisconsin that doesn't have one?

 

[RANCH]

Kratz worked for Calumet County, he'd have no insight into that evidence box from Manitowoc County. Remember he was brought in to handle the prosecution for this 1 case only. Maybe he couldn't find the person who opened the evidence box and put scotch tape back on it. He likely had no clue this planting theory was going to involve some 10 year old blood until the issue was raised by the defense. The defense is not required to share their case strategy with the DA. The needle mark in the topper we now know is a very normal part of drawing blood based on common procedures. I also learned, from watching the Dateline special, the blood up around the bottom of the stopper is also completely normal.

I watched the Dateline special and was surprised that Buting is still clinging to the idea that the blood vile was tampered with because of the hole in it. He then decided the fact that blood was seen around the base of the stopper meant the same only to have an expert say that it's also a normal condition.

Things like this make me doubt his sincerity.

JMO

 

[Oakland CA]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ror-ties-manitowoc-sheriffs-article-1.2489520

A volunteer for the Manitowoc sheriffs, the same department Avery was suing for wrongful imprisonment, was one of the jurors that put the convicted killer behind bars.

He was selected as a juror, even after he revealed his son, Chris Wardman, was a sergeant within the Manitowoc County sheriff’s department for at least seven years before the trial started.

Bizarre!!!

 

[Madeleine74]

The broken seals, the re-taped box? The sloppy storage of evidence in a clerk of courts office? Convenient. Whatever happened to locked evidence rooms? Is their county the only county in Wisconsin that doesn't have one?

What broken seals?

The red tape on the box was broken because that's how the blood is accessed to test it after a blood draw. Allegedly someone else accessed that evidence box in 2002, 3 yrs before TH's murder. Protocols not being followed correctly does not mean evidence was planted, but it sure allows the defense to hold it up in court and try to create doubt around it. If I was a member of the defense team I'd be doing the exact same thing to help my client create reasonable doubt.

 

[Jaiddie]

Just about anything is possible, I suppose. The question is, did that happen and is there any evidence of such a thing happening?

I am not sure what PROOF or evidence people want of a possible set-up. Do you want an actual photo of blood or key being planted? Because that, of course, is ridiculous. If they did frame him, they sure weren't going to film themselves doing it. Just the fact that ALL of their "evidence" has been highly questionable kinda suggests that something fishy was going on at the very least. By the same standard, I, for one, want to see the PROOF that TH remains were even found there on the Avery property in the first place.

As a post-note, I cannot wait to see what Zellner has discovered, because she is already declaring she has that new evidence. :worms:

 

[Madeleine74]

The jury heard both sides, they certainly heard the defense allegations of something strange going on with evidence. Ultimately they are charged with determining what is the truth based on what's been presented to them. They're not required to believe either side, but they are required to listen to everything presented, both sides, and make their determination in deliberation with the other jurors. It's not a perfect system, but so far no one has come up with a better one.

 

[RANCH]

In the Dateline interview Zellner said that there was new evidence and immediately started talking about how much forensic testing has advanced and how they are going to retest all of the evidence.

Sounds like she's jumping the gun to me. How can you say there's new evidence before the testing has been done? JMO

 

[Madeleine74]

I thought I heard Zellner say she believes they have new evidence and that they'll be testing whatever they can test, which I didn't assume meant everything. I think retesting evidence is a good plan.

 

[missy1974]

It appears to me Wiegert lied on his report or some of the information given to him was false.

Wiegert's report:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Trial-Exhibit-216-Wiegerts-Nov-3-Report.pdf

RSBM

You should check out the phone calls thread.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?298353-Phone-Calls-and-Phone-Records

MysticJynx has been saying this for days ;-) Someone gave him that information (TH's "friends")

 

[RANCH]

The jury heard both sides, they certainly heard the defense allegations of something strange going on with evidence. Ultimately they are charged with determining what is the truth based on what's been presented to them. They're not required to believe either side, but they are required to listen to everything presented, both sides, and make their determination in deliberation with the other jurors. It's not a perfect system, but so far no one has come up with a better one.

Obviously the jury didn't feel that there was reasonable doubt of Avery's guilt after hearing from both the state and the defense.

I agree with that determination until some solid evidence proves a LE conspiracy to frame SA. JMO

 

[Madeleine74]

Obviously the jury didn't feel that there was reasonable doubt of Avery's guilt after hearing from both the state and the defense.

I agree with that determination until some solid evidence proves a LE conspiracy to frame SA. JMO

They must not have since they unanimously voted guilty. I'm all for evidence though; bring it all in, let's see everything.

 

[missy1974]

In the Dateline interview Zellner said that there was new evidence and immediately started talking about how much forensic testing has advanced and how they are going to retest all of the evidence.

Sounds like she's jumping the gun to me. How can you say there's new evidence before the testing has been done? JMO

JMO but ... I think she has talked to jurors, notice that the one juror that was quite vocal has gone silent? Maybe she has had tips? Maybe she found things that were never looked into (that we don't even know about)? She did talk about buying a RAV4 that was similar to TH's so she can understand the evidence, what was tested, what was not, and what needs to be tested. Retesting.... yep, probably a few things that need to be retested... like the bullet fragment... oh wait... nevermind.

I also think.... if there are people in Manitowoc that were 'afraid' to talk 10 years ago.... they may not be 'afraid' to talk today. JMO

 

[RANCH]

I thought I heard Zellner say she believes they have new evidence and that they'll be testing whatever they can test, which I didn't assume meant everything. I think retesting evidence is a good plan.

Maybe what she means by "new" evidence is that new forensic technology is available to test the "old" evidence. I agree that it's a good idea to do the retesting. JMO

 

[RANCH]

They must not have since they unanimously voted guilty. I'm all for evidence though; bring it all in, let's see everything.

Yes. I think that a fresh look at the evidence using the latest and best methods is a great and necessary plan. JMO