Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

[missy1974]

Excellent podcast with some Canadian attorneys & Jerry Buting.

The Docket: Making a Murderer after show - Bonus Episode - Jerry Buting interview

I listened to this the other day.... it was interesting to hear that they swept SA out of the courthouse and his attorney's didn't even get to meet with him after the verdict. As Buting said.... "it was like they knew what the verdict was going to be"

 

[missy1974]

For us that believe that not everything adds up.... is there any piece of evidence that is not questionable? I was trying to think of this earlier and I just can't think of anything LOL Now.... it could just be that we haven't seen it, there is quite a bit that has not been released yet, and the crowdfunding group is trying to prioritize what they feel is most important, or what most are discussing because of the cost. But at this point.... is there anything that is dead solid, can't dispute?

 

[Tssiemer]

I don't believe every single thing BD said was fed to him by police. Maybe someone else fed him some stories along the way. BD certainly doesn't appear to be the type of teen that was clever and wily, we know he's slow. Yet he was a source of some things in which police followed up afterwards. That implies BD said some things LE never knew about or suspected (like showing he was in the garage when bleach was being poured around). Even if 90% of what BD said was wrong and 10% of it was right, it's worth investigators following up. I still believe BD should not be held accountable for any of his actions that day (no matter what he did) and he should not have been charged and convicted.

Shouldn't he have had a parent or representative there during his interview?


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[BigCityAccountant]

Shouldn't he have had a parent or representative there during his interview?


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I think everyone pretty much agrees the Manitowoc didn't handle that very well. I think everyone pretty much thinks he deserves a new trial....that's why it is not discussed as much as SA. SA on the other hand, people are split between whether they believe he is guilty or innocent as he claims.

 

[MysticJynx]

Lots of evidence was collected after BD was interviewed. Check the lab reports for all of it. The quarry was searched and the hood latch was swabbed for sure.

This is just a chart of the interview with Dassey on Mar 1 2005. Lets remember he had two times questioned in Nov 2005, One was recorded. Three times on Feb 27, 2006 only 2 of those interviews were recorded, before we even get to this Confession they used at the BD trial. They also only showed 3 hours of the 4 hour video. Conveniently left off the part where he is clearly confused and talking to his mom.

So the actual two pieces of evidence LE needed him to say to obtain another warrant on SA property was fed to BD by police.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...fense-Chart-of-03-01-06-Dassey-Confession.pdf

I was trying to put one of these charts together for all documented interviews with BD but I have a hard time watching them over and over again. I get so mad at the Investigators pushing and manipulating this poor kid. He had an IQ of 73 and verbally an IQ of 69. He couldn't articulate what he wanted to say and police took advantage of that.

 

[ElleElle]

For us that believe that not everything adds up.... is there any piece of evidence that is not questionable? I was trying to think of this earlier and I just can't think of anything LOL Now.... it could just be that we haven't seen it, there is quite a bit that has not been released yet, and the crowdfunding group is trying to prioritize what they feel is most important, or what most are discussing because of the cost. But at this point.... is there anything that is dead solid, can't dispute?

I personally find it odd that *67 was used when calling TH. I wonder why he would do that. Although it is not evidence, I do find it a little weird.

 

[missy1974]

I personally find it odd that *67 was used when calling TH. I wonder why he would do that. Although it is not evidence, I do find it a little weird.

I am not sure if it was normal or not for him because we only have the 1 day to reference and the prosecution didn't show anything that tells me it's not his habit, or the defense showing it is. He didn't use it when calling family, or when calling government agencies. I can see him using it if he is calling someone not close to him. I think that would be reasonable for him because of how much he was in the news, etc. I remember a time when all cell phones came up as unknown name/number, no need to use *67, I just can't remember when they started showing up with the number displayed LOL

Also... the thought has crossed my mind that the second call, he hit redial and it didn't connect on her end (it's not on her bill) because when you do *67, you get 2 short beeps (dial tone type beeps) and then you get a regular dial tone, then you dial the number. Hitting redial may not have allowed it to connect properly (no pause after the *67) Pick up your phone and try it, you will hear what I mean LOL Because cell phones and features like that have changed over the years, it's so hard to get a handle on some things because what we do now, maybe couldn't be done 10 years ago. Were smart phones even a thing? I don't think iphones were out yet LOL

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I am not sure if it was normal or not for him because we only have the 1 day to reference and the prosecution didn't show anything that tells me it's not his habit, or the defense showing it is. He didn't use it when calling family, or when calling government agencies. I can see him using it if he is calling someone not close to him. I think that would be reasonable for him because of how much he was in the news, etc. I remember a time when all cell phones came up as unknown name/number, no need to use *67, I just can't remember when they started showing up with the number displayed LOL

Also... the thought has crossed my mind that the second call, he hit redial and it didn't connect on her end (it's not on her bill) because when you do *67, you get 2 short beeps (dial tone type beeps) and then you get a regular dial tone, then you dial the number. Hitting redial may not have allowed it to connect properly (no pause after the *67) Pick up your phone and try it, you will hear what I mean LOL Because cell phones and features like that have changed over the years, it's so hard to get a handle on some things because what we do now, maybe couldn't be done 10 years ago. Were smart phones even a thing? I don't think iphones were out yet LOL

I think there were only Blackberry's back then..if I recall correctly. Gosh--I'm like a drunk typing these last two days---spelling errors, etc...

I do know that there was an option back then to make all of your calls restricted, which I don't think exists today. My boss used that feature on his phone back then, so when he called it would come up as restricted number.

 

[Sinsaint]

I don't believe every single thing BD said was fed to him by police. Maybe someone else fed him some stories along the way. BD certainly doesn't appear to be the type of teen that was clever and wily, we know he's slow. Yet he was a source of some things in which police followed up afterwards. That implies BD said some things LE never knew about or suspected (like showing he was in the garage when bleach was being poured around). Even if 90% of what BD said was wrong and 10% of it was right, it's worth investigators following up. I still believe BD should not be held accountable for any of his actions that day (no matter what he did) and he should not have been charged and convicted.

What details do you think Dassey got right without prompting that can be verified with evidence?

 

[ElleElle]

OT - But, I am listening to the dispatch calls and I can help think to myself how much Manitowec county sounds very Canadian.

ETA ~ Also, a Ford Lincoln is getting mentioned but I am in drone mode and not sure what the connection is.

 

[missy1974]

OT - But, I am listening to the dispatch calls and I can help think to myself how much Manitowec county sounds very Canadian.

ETA ~ Also, a Ford Lincoln is getting mentioned but I am in drone mode and not sure what the connection is.

LOL I thought the same ElleElle! And then I thought.... ohhh do I sound like that haha

Some of the calls are hard to follow, and then they get transferred and we don't hear the end of them.

 

[dexter75]

So in your opinion,

What does this say about the jury that convicted him?

The prosecutor that went after him?

And the JUDGE that allowed everything in between?

I don't believe every single thing BD said was fed to him by police. Maybe someone else fed him some stories along the way. BD certainly doesn't appear to be the type of teen that was clever and wily, we know he's slow. Yet he was a source of some things in which police followed up afterwards. That implies BD said some things LE never knew about or suspected (like showing he was in the garage when bleach was being poured around). Even if 90% of what BD said was wrong and 10% of it was right, it's worth investigators following up. I still believe BD should not be held accountable for any of his actions that day (no matter what he did) and he should not have been charged and convicted.

 

[missy1974]

Tweet for the day! I was starting to wonder if she was too busy to tweet LOL

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 5m5 minutes ago
One thing perps & planters have in common is leaving their signatures at the crime scene. Science always transcribes .#MakingAMurderer

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Im sure its possible to get rid of dna but Im not sure SA or BD would have had the intelligence to make sure they got every single piece of dna out of the home and the garage. Its possible but slim.

I guess, I don't agree that having the intelligence would make a difference. Some criminals are very low IQ, but very street smart--in other words--know how to beat the system. We do know that he knows how to read and comprehend--that is apparent in his attempt to represent himself on his appeal.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I'm sure if he did research about DNA, his first tip would have been to try to remove or get rid of the evidence.

After much research he transformed into a stealth cleaner and was able to remove TH's DNA but leave others, including his own all over his trailer, in his research he skipped the part that told him how to get rid of the blood in the RAV4. *shrug* I really think I would look at the blood evidence differently if there was any indication that someone tried to clean it up, but I don't and have not seen any evidence of that.

Some people ask that their DNA be tested because they are innocent and do not believe it would match. (according to Zellner anyway) JMO

I was always going under the impression that he would at some point crush the car--but then why clean the steering wheel? I get your point!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

That sticks out like a sore thumb for me, If TH was tortured in the trailer or garage, logically, there would have to be more than a spent .22 bullet with THs DNA on it.
I don't care how good of a clean up job there is, including bleach stained jeans (which again, we never saw these in evidence).
There would be blood somewhere! ullhair:

The thought just occurred to me--does anyone think it is possible that TH was killed over at the Janda residence before Barb got home? Maybe in BD's bed? When Scott testified he said he dropped off Barb and she got right into her car because she was going over to his mother's with him. Could she be missing bed sheets that she never noticed missing?

Could he have said--oh...I have to go get the money from Barb's house and she followed him over there?

Just a thought--now you can all shoot me down!

 

[Sustained]

Tweet for the day! I was starting to wonder if she was too busy to tweet LOL

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 5m5 minutes ago
One thing perps & planters have in common is leaving their signatures at the crime scene. Science always transcribes .#MakingAMurderer

I'm starting to wonder if KZ has found evidence on an item that should not have been there.

 

[amberjb4]

I guess, I don't agree that having the intelligence would make a difference. Some criminals are very low IQ, but very street smart--in other words--know how to beat the system. We do know that he knows how to read and comprehend--that is apparent in his attempt to represent himself on his appeal.

Yea I agree with you there. I just cant fathom that none, not even a very small amount, of her dna was found in his home or his garage. He could very well be street smart and have covered his tracks pretty well though. He was definitely a sick individual which makes it more believable that he would do something like rape and torture a woman. I just wish they had more definitive proof of his guilt.

 

[dexter75]

If this proves to be true, WOW!!!

Interesting in light of the Zipperer talk

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...y_with_links_to_back_up_gene_kusche_may_have/

 

[BigCityAccountant]

LOL I thought the same ElleElle! And then I thought.... ohhh do I sound like that haha

Some of the calls are hard to follow, and then they get transferred and we don't hear the end of them.

It is not uncommon for people from the UP (Upper Peninsula) to sound Canadian.