Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery

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I have been trying to find information on this, but everyone points me to the same blog! thanks for the reddit.

I guess i'm skeptical because it sounds like a great story and no one in media wants to talk to this lady ? or find out more about this guy ?

Yet, for some reason people are more willing to entertain this, than what was said in a trial by family members of Avery?

I've heard people call Barb a liar for telling police brendan had bleach on his pants and said he helped clean up avery's garage floor the night of the murder. Yet they are all ready to hear about a story that has no name listed and embrace it with little to no scrutiny. haha

I am calling bs on the alternate theory until there's a bit more than a story win no names. I'll email the guy, but I'm gonna say I'm 99.9% sure I can smell the BS already.

There are elements about the woman that makes me uneasy but I'm not sure if it has more to do with my dislike for possible bad breeders. It is certainly easy to track information both good and bad by searching for keywords that she provided about the online stalker she suspects in police officer. Oddly enough, this will lead to one of her ex-husband's online personas, specifically the one pointed out in that thread as being sexually degrading in nature. I would love to find out if there is a record of her allegation that he lit himself on fire and once worked for a crematorium. I'm not sure what to make of it, but the proximity to the Salvage yard (less than 8 minutes away), makes me question why he wasn't looked into. Getting a report of bloody underwear, a bloody pillow case, along with the extremely odd behavior in the same time frame and proximity of the discovery site is just too much to not make me curious why it wasn't investigated.
 
Yes I do blame the cousin, she had some type of vendetta against him, which the documentary doesn't go into. He chose to do the wrong thing when he pulled the gun on her. In her 2005 deposition, she was obviously caught out when she tried saying that Steven Avery would run out and in front of her car with no clothes on.
 
Do your posts to me have to be so long?

Who said Steven was an angel? He clearly wasn't - those letters to his kids regarding his wife while he was in jail show that he could be extremely nasty.
Again we agree

And?

Is your logic that if he's done all the heinous things you're claiming this is proof that he killed Theresa? I am assuming not...so what is your point?
Nope - read what I actually say.

Jails the world over are full of nasty people who have broken the law ... few of them are murderers. Ergo, while all murderers are nasties, not all nasties are murderers.
Again you say what I have stated

Therefore there is no logical link between anything Steven may or may not have done in the past and this case. It says a lot to me that you are struggling to confine yourself to the evidence of this trial.
So you are saying that the concept of interviewing violent criminals in the past when violent crimes occur is not something we should do ? Isn't that kind of what Allen -- you know the guy who avery went to jail for - was being followed around for ? his past actions ? - do explain.

Again with the jeans? I don't care. I've said that already.


Luminol? Well, how very odd. The defence in Steven's trial repeatedly stated...uncontested....that not the tiniest drop of blood was found anywhere in the garage. If you're saying it was accepted that it was in Brendan's trial, then we have a contradiction. A massive one. This should have you very suspicious not clutching at it, confirmation bias fashion, in order to support your pet theory!
Again you mention things that I don't even suggest I believe - Luminol finding something is in dassey trial transcript. Do you have the avery trial trasncript -- where do you see it said that there was no evidence of blood found in the garage ? No DNA that could be tested was what was noted in the dassey trial, possibly because of the cleaning. Again, not even saying that it's fact. but Not sure where you are getting your information, feel free to share it. The documentary doesn't make ANY mention of the luminol hits. right ?

If Theresa was so nervous of Steven and uncomfortable with regard to his towel hi-jinks, why was she so willing to head out there on her own after leaving a cheery message making an appointment? Different telephone number, different name is irrelevant - she would have recognised the address.
You know she left the message on Barb's machine right ? Why did she call Barb ? Maybe again, you should check the dassey trial transcript. I have.



Steven, and his brothers, do not seem to have been very nice people at all. Although I think you should be careful when you raise the "pulling a gun on someone and forcing them off the road" business. There was stuff in that woman's statement that she did not say.
I'll say a big so what ? are you giving him an excuse ? he should just be "careful" ? geez :) seriously. In your mind this was in some way somewhat ok ? puzzling.


In any event, devil or angel, Steve was royally stitched up for the rape. No one...absolutely no one...deserves that.
Again -- no argument and I have said that. Who has not agreed with that by the way ? why even state the obvious ?

And he should never have been convicted of Theresa's murder...how unpleasant a character you think he is is irrelevant to that. The police planted evidence. This makes his conviction unsound - whether he was factually guilty or not (which none of us knows).
We agree again. Regardless of planted evidence, they didn't even investigate guys who had means -- of course based on what you were feeding me up above - where was the logical link ? ya know ? Chuckie and Earl were convicted of sexual assault etc . Chuckie was hounding women he towed to the lot and scaring them, showing up at their houses. But.... based on what you said above, we shouldn't even take that into account when theorizing who might be involved. :/

I think, on balance, he's probably innocent. But I think the killer is someone close to him who moved the bones to his burn pit to deflect suspicion from themselves. The police were completely convinced of his guilt but knew the forensic evidence they had was not enough, so they planted some. They figured they were doing the community a favour. But the fact is, they didn't know he was guilty anymore than you do...they just assumed. And that is shocking.
I don't know. I just know that I don't have the full story yet because of a poor investigation. I think that there is no doubt in my mind, based on what I know so far that I would vote not guilty. However, I wouldn't be able to say I believed he was innocent. there is a distinction there.




as many times as I have said i agree... not really sure why you have spent so much time telling me these things. Not like I haven't said them before. Maybe you disagree with me for another reason than what I am actually saying ? the length of my responses ?





 
There are elements about the woman that makes me uneasy but I'm not sure if it has more to do with my dislike for possible bad breeders. It is certainly easy to track information both good and bad by searching for keywords that she provided about the online stalker she suspects in police officer. Oddly enough, this will lead to one of her ex-husband's online personas, specifically the one pointed out in that thread as being sexually degrading in nature. I would love to find out if there is a record of her allegation that he lit himself on fire and once worked for a crematorium. I'm not sure what to make of it, but the proximity to the Salvage yard (less than 8 minutes away), makes me question why he wasn't looked into. Getting a report of bloody underwear, a bloody pillow case, along with the extremely odd behavior in the same time frame and proximity of the discovery site is just too much to not make me curious why it wasn't investigated.

I'd like to see like even one shred of evidence that it's real! haha

Don't get me wrong, if it's real, I'll be first to listen to more. But right now, it's not a good sign when McCorkle ain't commenting. He might not like the idea that a fabrication will pack a hit to credibility of everything on his blog. I liked his articles, read all of them regarding this case. But maybe he's in too deep on this one ?
 
Yes I do blame the cousin, she had some type of vendetta against him, which the documentary doesn't go into. He chose to do the wrong thing when he pulled the gun on her. In her 2005 deposition, she was obviously caught out when she tried saying that Steven Avery would run out and in front of her car with no clothes on.

Given how much we weren't told about avery, i'm not even sure if everything wasn't true. We kind of have to accept he's telling the truth for the documentary to get us on his side.

Worked for you. me... not so much.

We don't even get a timeline of those events. She actually comes back and admits she didn't say a few things. Maybe anger got the best of her too ?

But I think if someone runs you off the road, you just might not be quite as confident that the guy is really an ok guy. You might even feel safer with him behind bars. Not saying that is right, but when you run someone off the road and pull a gun, that's not exactly improving the situation.

Normal people, kind of just ignore someone talking smack about them. They don't do what he did.


But blame away, I can't stop you.
 
Agree with LemonMousse about Dassey offering virtually nothing on his own. I also read all of transcripts and took notes on all of them. If you sit and go through each one, you will see how virtually everything they needed, was put in Dassey's mind first. This is not a kid who was using deception. Someone who tells investigators they slit a woman's throat because they think it's what they want is not trying to hide things. What can be worse than slitting a woman's throat? First degree murder in the State of Wisconsin, there is no crime worse, the thing is the confessions give you the impression only the investigators understand that. Dassey thinks giving them the truth will help him, and they'll go to bat for him, and since they've told him they know the truth no less than 100 times, they just need to hear it from him, what do you think he's going to do?

I followed Avery's trial, as well as Dassey's, and i doubted Dassey's guilt, but believed Avery's. The documentary hasn't presented new evidence, the planting theory was given to the jury. The jury was impartial, they spent 3 days considering the evidence. I have little interest talking to juror who was dismissed, she has no idea why the jury found him guilty because she missed 17 hours of deliberations. I don't think it's fair of her to make statements about the jury having 3 people who wouldn't consider evidence and were set on his guilt when she missed 17 hours of their deliberating evidence. I think Avery got a fair trial. Dassey, however, didn't. The confession was the only solid evidence against him, and it doesn't take a rocket science to see who mentions what first. I'm perfectly open to discussing Avery's potential innocence, however, and if something new can be shown that was not shown to the jury, then I will be his biggest advocate for a new trial, creep or not.

The golf cart was mentioned at some point, that was not mentioned by Brendan before investigators brought it up. They mention it in the 2/27 school interview.

LemonMousse, since you read all Brendan's transcripts, just was wondering if Fassenbender's statements made you feel like puking or if that was just me? The May 13 one especially, when he's saying Teresa is watching in Heaven and she's proud of the truth coming out. That pair of investigators, I don't even know what to say about them. They give me chills. The more I see how deeply they were involved in Avery's evidence gathering the more I wonder. Anything is possible from that duo I'm beginning to think.


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Max stop putting words into other posters mouths, No ones saying that he's an angel. Your posts are coming off as "your a know it all" and everyone's else's opinions are wrong, and that your feelings are getting hurt cause not getting pats on the back for your posts. Time to roll & scroll I think.
 
I just want to say I don't know any of the Avery clan personally, but know people who do, and know plenty of people who have interacted with them. My uncle delivered packages for the Manitowoc area for almost a decade and wasn't surprised for one second when he saw the salvage yard on the news being investigated for a murder. He said he was only surprised it wasn't CA. He dealt with numerous members of the family a few times a month for years and has plenty of opinions, but said he down right dreaded any interaction with CA.

The family had a reputation not just in Manitowoc but Sheboygan County as well. Plenty of it is rumor I'm sure, but when you hear first hand accounts from different people about dealing with certain members of the family, and they are all the same, you start to wonder. It wouldn't surprise me that the cousin had a vendetta against Steven- doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the 6 years but it wouldn't surprise me a bit. I've heard plenty of the family's own volatile relationships w. Each other. Plenty of people believe CA or EA set Steven up, I would say from what I've heard in Sheboygan in the past week, that's the most popular theory. After reading some of the comments Chuck has made about Steven to various news outlets over the years, and Brendan and Barb's allegations and statements, that family has certainly some issues of its own.

Not trying to say any of them are guilty, just wanted to provide some of the local opinion on this.


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Max stop putting words into other posters mouths, No ones saying that he's an angel. Your posts are coming off as "your a know it all" and everyone's else's opinions are wrong, and that your feelings are getting hurt cause not getting pats on the back for your posts. Time to roll & scroll I think.

maybe you are paying too much attention to such things and projecting ?

I haven't said anyone's opinion is wrong. In fact it seems like the case is that many are claiming I am saying things I am not.

I don't even see where I've put anything in anyone's mouth. It's called asking questions. If you don't agree with what my impression of what you said is, just clarify.

I'm not interested in pats on the back. you ?
 
I love that you answer my post with a bunch of stuff I have mentioned before and agree with. kudos, rock on.




So she gave him a blank bill of sale at that time ? that's your theory ? Do you see a problem with steven's account not corroborating with yours ? And you are giving an explanation for him ?

The bill of sale is meant to stay with the customer. It would have the cost and she collects money. Not saying it couldn't happen the way you say, but it's kind of not what Steve says happened. In the documentary , they don't even say how Steven says it happens. Why ?

But go ahead and find what Steven says about that day, if you care about what he has to say. Personally, I think they didn't even comment on it in the documentary because it ain't all that convincing. They didn't even bother to explain why it was so important to at least ask the question.

you seem to think teresa can make simple mistakes, but a killer is perfect ? we have prisons with many criminals who did dumb things that got them caught. I am not sure what the truth is on that. But do I want to hear why it happened that way ? sure.

Your posts are making less and less sense.

I said a "killer" is perfect, when?

And I most certainly never put forward a "theory" for the blank bill of sale. You bizarrely demanded an explanation from me (which I don't have because I was not there) and I tried to give two possible scenarios. Either or neither could be true.

Interesting that you decided the "innocent" explanation was my "theory" but you ignored the first possible scenario that implicated Steven.

Bottom line, I don't know how a blank bill of sale got on to his desk. He says she handed him a magazine - it's impossible, is it, that a blank one accidentally got handed over too?

The only explanation is that he murdered her before she could fill it out? No, that's not the only explanation. I can say that without knowing what the actual explanation is.

Presumably, Theresa had lots of those forms on her. Why assume that the one on the desk was the ONLY one floating around that day?
 
Yes I do blame the cousin, she had some type of vendetta against him, which the documentary doesn't go into. He chose to do the wrong thing when he pulled the gun on her. In her 2005 deposition, she was obviously caught out when she tried saying that Steven Avery would run out and in front of her car with no clothes on.

I didn't put words in your mouth. I merely gave an opinion and questioned the words from your mouth ?

How did I mischaracterize or put words in your mouth ?


I'm sorry you don't like my opinion of you saying things that seemingly make excuses for what he did. I think the whole bunch might be this way. Maybe the cousin is horrible.

But I'm never going to excuse someone running someone off the road or pulling a gun on someone. So if you have a problem with me saying that, so be it.

You can take your own advice and roll and scroll ;)
 
maybe you are paying too much attention to such things and projecting ?

I haven't said anyone's opinion is wrong. In fact it seems like the case is that many are claiming I am saying things I am not.

I don't even see where I've put anything in anyone's mouth. It's called asking questions. If you don't agree with what my impression of what you said is, just clarify.

I'm not interested in pats on the back. you ?

You said that I viewed a killer as "perfect" but had the victim making mistakes. A million miles from anything I said.

And...I have to say...if I was making the same objections to points that you had made....why were you posting them for me to comment on? How is that supposed to work?

You seem a little over-invested, to be honest, and it's hard to keep up with your many, many posts. I don't read them all because I don't have time. If I've said similar things to you it's because that's what I think, not because that's what you've said too.

I do think that if you want to be part of an instructive conversation, you should be willing to accept differing views without copping a strop and sneeringly twisting what other people say.

That will endear you to no one. Least of all me....that's why I shall leave you to it.
 
:waitasec:Hey Max, I was meaning myself when I wrote about rolling and scrolling your posts, haha :seeya:
 
You said that I viewed a killer as "perfect" but had the victim making mistakes. A million miles from anything I said.

.

this is what you said :
"Seems rather odd that a cold blooded killer who takes great steps to destroy a body and hide a car is quite happy to leave evidence sitting in full view on his desk that he knows got there when his victim came into his trailer.

My point was that you seem to think that he can't make a simple mistake like not thinking about a bill of sale and what that might indicate. Yet, you are more than willing to believe that teresa must have made a mistake in giving a blank bill of sale - as opposed to even entertaining the idea that he might have brought that into the house and did something horrible that made it impossible for that bill of sale to be completed.


Can we agree that there are prisons filled with criminals that make dumb mistakes ? What sets avery apart that makes it odd for him to make a "mistake" ?


Is he perfect ? Are criminals immune to mistakes ?

I said :

"you seem to think teresa can make simple mistakes, but a killer is perfect ? "


That is an observation. You are more than welcome to clarify why you feel it's odd he might make a dumb mistake, but other criminals can make mistakes all the time. You don't believe that it's odd for teresa to make a mistake and pull a blank bill of sale out of her folder ? Isn't that what YOU said ?

That's all i was saying. I don't think it's odd. He's not perfect and he had far bigger things to worry about if he did the crime.

Haven't you ever watched a crime movie where things snowball and things they don't expect happen and then... oops. they forget something. that's how they get caught.



 
You said that I viewed a killer as "perfect" but had the victim making mistakes. A million miles from anything I said.

And...I have to say...if I was making the same objections to points that you had made....why were you posting them for me to comment on? How is that supposed to work?

You seem a little over-invested, to be honest, and it's hard to keep up with your many, many posts. I don't read them all because I don't have time. If I've said similar things to you it's because that's what I think, not because that's what you've said too.

I do think that if you want to be part of an instructive conversation, you should be willing to accept differing views without copping a strop and sneeringly twisting what other people say.

That will endear you to no one. Least of all me....that's why I shall leave you to it.

I was wondering why you felt the need to repeat what I have said ? You seemed to be so certain what I believed ?

You don't have to reply ? i choose to. You don't have to, it's not required.

If you want to say things to me -- yes, you replied to my posts. Then I guess i'd expect that you are suggesting I feel differently. Are you searching for things I might not agree with ? seems rather inefficient. right ?

I'm not trying to endear to you or anyone else. So what is the point of that ? does it mean something to you ?

Just don't reply, it's that simple.
 
Why is the blank bill of sale suddenly such a big deal? I feel like most posters on here think Steven is the farthest thing from perfect. I've seen it posted plenty of times by different people that one of the reasons they believe he and Brendan are innocent is because there is no way they could have eliminated all the evidence of the crime happened the way the State said. These two weren't criminal masterminds, that's for damn sure.


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Why is the blank bill of sale suddenly such a big deal? I feel like most posters on here think Steven is the farthest thing from perfect. I've seen it posted plenty of times by different people that one of the reasons they believe he and Brendan are innocent is because there is no way they could have eliminated all the evidence of the crime happened the way the State said. These two weren't criminal masterminds, that's for damn sure.


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I also agree that Teresa could have made a mistake. But, is it so hard for steven to say i gave her $40 and she gave me a bill of sale that i didn't even look at and notice it was blank? That's the part I'm not getting.

The explanation really could be that simple. So why didn't the defense just say that ? Certainly the documentary could have given a non-trial explanation. They chose not to. why ?

See, maybe the issue here is that Steven didn't testify. So in the trial, he couldn't answer as to why he had a blank bill of sale. So the prosecution could say whatever they wanted about how that might have happened ?

I get that for the trial. But during questioning we see in the documentary, there is no statement or anything that gives an explanation. In the documentary all we hear is Avery saying he's being framed. No explanations for simple questions.

So to a jury, how big of an impact does that have on their opinion when the prosecution lays out that narrative that is rather convincing, and he chooses not to even address it via testimony?

Does anyone have the transcript to the avery interviews ?

I think it's possible Avery underestimated how much a jury would want things like that to be explained.
 
I don't think Avery should have been put on the stand. Not only is he not the brightest guy, but I don't think I'd want to see what the cross-examination of him might get like (if I were his attorneys) who knows what this prosecutor would try. If your defense attorneys are good, like Avery's are, there's no reason to go on the stand. Since the State has the burden of proof, no need to make it easier by allowing them a chance to unintentionally incriminate yourself on the stand. Silence is always the best idea for a defendant, IMO. Let the attorneys do the talking for you, as soon as you get up on the stand anything you say can be used as evidence against you, and you subject yourself to cross-examination. Also, Avery isn't the most likable guy...I mean, in the documentary that is used to make him look good, he makes statements that rub you the wrong way- like when he's berating Chuck on the phone for not putting up money for bail fast enough, when he's willing to put the business up to post bail on a first degree murder charge. The stakes are way to high, IMO, to put Avery up on the stand over something like a bill of sale.

I don't think Avery gave extensive statements like Dassey did because he lawyered up right away, and his attorneys were working for him, not the investigators, like Dassey's.

The defendant isn't obligated to provide a defense, Avery's already doing more than he needs to by making the statement he's framed.


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Honestly not trying to be snarky, but I think it's more likely Dassey's confession is legit than Avery not taking the stand to explain a bill of sale factored at all in his conviction. Avery's defense team did a great job providing his defense, especially since they went with the defense that police framed him, which is not a popular defense to use at trial, as it's a tough sell to the jury (which one of the attorneys acknowledged in the documentary).


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