Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery

[stephsb]

I'm not of the agreement that Steven Avery's motive was sexual assault, certainly not based on the evidence supplied by the State. Without Brendan's unreliable confessions, the story they offer of what happened to Teresa before she was murdered is simply what it is...a story. There isn't a single piece of evidence, physical, forensic or otherwise which suggests that Teresa was sexually assaulted before she was murdered.
The whole concept of sexual assault being part of this crime is because Brendan Dassey said it was. Nothing more. The judge, correctly in my view, dismissed the charge of sexual assault against Steven Avery.

I accept that there was very little chance of proving sexual assault due to the lack of bodily remains, however, we are supposed to err on the side of innocence until proven otherwise. Essentially, that doesn't give us the option to throw in a charge of sexual assault simply because we think he was the type of character that 'may' have done this. That's exactly what Kratz and Co. did when they incorrectly locked Steven Avery away the first time. An error that lasted 18 years.

Brendan was NOT the one who suggested sexual assault, the first people to bring it up and suggest it to Brendan were the investigators. Sexual assault was NOT something Brendan came up w. on his own. In the 2/27 interview, he is asked on pages 461-462:
FASSBENDER: Did he try to have sex w. her or anything and she said no
(pause)
WIEGERT: Did he ever tell you that, it's very important, OK, cuz we heard that he might have told you that.
(pause)
WIEGERT: No? Yes or no?
BRENDAN: No
WIEGERT: What else did he tell you about her?
BRENDAN: That she was kinda pretty

Brendan actually provided what he thought Steven's motive was for the crime, and it's truly laughable: he believes Steven wanted to go back to prison, and that he missed being there. So there's that, that is the kind of reasoning used by Dassey. The rape charges were dropped against Steven because they (wisely) decided not to use Brendan's confession against Steven at Steven's trial. They did not throw out the idea of Sexual Assault, as they later charged and convicted Dassey of it, even though there was no evidence of that occuring inside her trailer, based on Dassey's testimony.

I do believe sexual assault was the motive, as no one has provided me w. a better one. Police are not going to murder an innocent woman in the hopes of pinning it on Steven Avery. They've failed to prove robbery as motive, couldn't find anyone who held a grudge against Teresa, so why is she dead? For the record, Avery is not alone my prime suspect- I believe his two brothers, who were sex offenders, should have been looked into just as much as Steven. I am not saying that sexual assault HAS to be the motive, only that I think it is, and that I absolutely disagree w. the notion that Avery would not commit this crime because it was "motiveless". Just because we do not know the motive, does not mean there wasn't any. If Brendan would have given a better "confession" sexual assault would have been the motive, it WAS the motive they used against Brendan at his trial. I would also like to add that the sexual assault did not need to happen in Steven's trailer- it could have happened somewhere else, thus explaining the lack of evidence.

Also, 6 years of Avery's conviction were not wrongfully served, as has been repeated time and time again on this board. He served a concurrent 6 year sentence stemming from the incident where he assaulted his female cousin w. a deadly weapon. He had a prior record including burglary, which he received 5 years probation, which was later revoked when he threw the family cat into the bonfire. He has a history of abusing animals and females, great indicators of future homicidal tendencies. Does that make him a murderer? Absolutely not, but it doesn't make him a good person either....what it does make him a great suspect. Again, as I stated, this is along w. his brothers, one of which may be a better suspect, in my opinion.

For the record, I also agree that the Judge was correct in dismissing the charges of sexual assault against Steven. They were baseless. That doesn't mean sexual assault can't have been the motivation, just that they didnt have enough to charge him. My only problem is w. people who view Steven as innocent because he had no motivation to to commit a murder when he was going to receive $36 million dollars. Wealthy people commit sexual assaults, knowing they will go to prison and throw everything away, ALL THE TIME. Just look at Bill Cosby.

 

[Soulmagent]

I think this could easily fit w. someone else on the property being responsible for the murder. I believe that law enforcement planted the key, blood, and probably the bullet. I do not believe they planted the RAV4, but they may have tampered w. it. Unfortunately, since they failed to cover the RAV4 w. a tarp against the advice of their DNA expert from Madison and let it sit out in the rain for hours, we will never know if there was evidence on the outside of the RAV4. The source of this is John Earl, the expert who testified at both Avery and Dassey's trials.

The article I posted mentions 4 people on the Avery property who should have been investigated as suspects. One of them, CA, had no alibi, previous sex offenses, restraining orders, domestic abuse injunctions, etc etc. He knew Steven was having Halbach on the property and had easy access to it. He should have been investigated THOROUGHLY for this crime. Even if he did do it, that doesn't exclude Steven. He could have still been involved in some way, either setting up the crime, during the commission, or the clean-up. Police also could have planted evidence in this scenario as well. Allegedly, CA was in contact w. police officers, Barb Janda complains about no one telling her anything and CA being the one they talked to on various occasions. Maybe they suspected CA, or any of the other 3 suspects named by the defense, and thought it'd be more convenient to pin it on Steven. Or maybe CA wanted to set up Steven- there was supposedly jealously between them, and one of the phone calls in the documentary doesn't show a close brotherly relationship between them. I believe he currently is of the impression Steven can rot in prison for what he did- I'll try to see where I got those quotes from and if they are actually attributed to him. LE had every reason to set up Avery- they could improve their reputations, and make the lawsuit go away. But I definitely do not believe LE killed this girl, and don't see the ex-boyfriend or brother as viable suspects, although they should have definitely been investigated at least at the beginning.

At first I had had a hard time thinking LE planted all the evidence. Now I believe they created all. I believe they planted the Rav4. The bones. Everything.

And I pray they get caught.

The March 2005 Cottonwood fire in Adams county is about the type of fire that would do this to human remains. The DNA used to test for TH DNA came from her pap smear and from a soda can from her truck. I am skeptical and In this case I dont think it is unreasonable to believe this cover up is large and involved many people in many areas of this case.

 

[gittlebass]

I think it was without a doubt Steven or a third party. Planting evidence to ensure he goes back to prison is somewhat understandable (although terribly unethical) but murdering an innocent one and mutilating her corpse is not. I think these guys were willing to sacrifice their careers and reputations to frame Steven, but do not think they were will to murder or mutilate a corpse. How would they have even known she was on the property? Were they stalking her so the second she left they could make their move and send Steven away for good? I mean come on. That's ridiculous.

I'm of the unpopular opinion Steven did this, or at least a jury could reasonably believe he did. That being said, I am not certain I could have I myself could have convicted him, with so many other great suspects on the property. I believe 100% Brendan is innocent and probably has no first hand knowledge of anything. But I think he heard and saw things, and a close reading of his statements should have led police to look closely at another person on that property. Instead, they changed the subject and led him away from probably some of the only reliable info coming from his mouth. I can post the specific statements later today.

For the record, I am sick of people saying Steven had no motive, he was going to get a huge payout and was turning his life around. The apparent motive immediately should have been sexual assault. I believe that the motive was sexual assault, and that he could have done it. No one ever suggested (except Brendan of course) that the motive was anything else. While I believe Steven could have done it, there were at least two other people who had committed and been charged w. sex offenses running around that salvage yard. I'd just like to put to rest the notion that Steven is this wonderful person. The guy poured gasoline on the family cat and lit it on fire, and he served 6 years for assaulting his female cousin with a deadly weapon because she spread rumors about him. This guy was not know for his restraint or rational thinking, just saying. Then again, neither were his brothers.


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If steven had a motive that was seual assault, even though he never sexually assaulted someone and was exonerated, then by that logic, colburn and lenk had motive to frame him as well. If There's DNA evidence to prove all this happened then present it, because the state couldn't even do that.

 

[gittlebass]

I agree with you but I love devil's advocate. I'm not saying he's guilty or not because I do not know ( nor do any of us ) . But some of the things coming out here but not in the docu have me thinking. And I know they are big IF's but please play along.
If he did ' let his cousin go' because of the baby in the car but had intended to kidnap her .........
If he did molest his nephew and others .........
If he did run around outdoors naked.........
If he did come to door in a towel when Teresa came previously......
If his brothers have sex offenses.......
Then I think we could paint a picture of a guy driven by a sexual desire and they don't think about time in prison or any money or anything else once they get the urge .

Like I say I'm still not finished but I'm trying to stay open to all sides right now. People react to their sexual urges all day , every day without one bit of concern for the future. By that token, why would happily married men with families and good jobs risk prison to rape and kill ? Yet, they do it every day.

If the prosecutor was a sexual predator....oh wait....

 

[canadianwhitedove]

Why would you tow it if you had the key ?

That is a great question. Which would put more reasonable doubt on the key as evidence against Avery. From my understanding the damage was not investigated. There were no crime photos take of the SUV on Avery's property only ones available are the one taken by Pam. They did not take pictures of any tire tracks or the ground to prove there were no tire tracks. The finger prints on the outside of the SUV were not put through AFIS only compared to a select number of samples given to the lab, Avery's being one and did not match.
To me either their was corruption with in the police force and they want to pin this one on Avery (not saying he innocent or guilty) or the whole investigation was ineptly done.

 

[stephsb]

I'm not of the agreement that Steven Avery's motive was sexual assault, certainly not based on the evidence supplied by the State. Without Brendan's unreliable confessions, the story they offer of what happened to Teresa before she was murdered is simply what it is...a story. There isn't a single piece of evidence, physical, forensic or otherwise which suggests that Teresa was sexually assaulted before she was murdered.
The whole concept of sexual assault being part of this crime is because Brendan Dassey said it was. Nothing more. The judge, correctly in my view, dismissed the charge of sexual assault against Steven Avery.

I accept that there was very little chance of proving sexual assault due to the lack of bodily remains, however, we are supposed to err on the side of innocence until proven otherwise. Essentially, that doesn't give us the option to throw in a charge of sexual assault simply because we think he was the type of character that 'may' have done this. That's exactly what Kratz and Co. did when they incorrectly locked Steven Avery away the first time. An error that lasted 18 years.

Also, Kratz was the prosecutor for Calumet County, not Manitowoc, and was not named in the lawsuit. Former Manitowoc DA Vogel was. AFAIK, he had no involvement in Avery's wrongful conviction.



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[Marah]

Did BD tell the police officers that SA molested him? I know he told his mom, just wondering if he told them?

 

[stephsb]

If steven had a motive that was seual assault, even though he never sexually assaulted someone and was exonerated, then by that logic, colburn and lenk had motive to frame him as well. If There's DNA evidence to prove all this happened then present it, because the state couldn't even do that.

If you read my post I said that I believe LE was willing to frame him by planting evidence, I don't believe they were willing to murder her and mutilate her body.

You seem to forget that the State did present DNA evidence, and the defense did claim it was planted, and did a great job of it. I have said myself I personally don't think I could have convicted Avery, but 12 jurors, who saw far more evidence than was shown the documentary, disagreed and convicted Avery.

As I stated, If the motive was sexual assault, Steven could still be a suspect, but his brother's, who had sex offenses against them, would also be prime suspects, if not better suspects than Steven. Just because he was exonerated on the rape conviction does not mean he can't sexually assault someone. If that was the case, no one would ever be convicted of a sex crime because they'd all just say "well I've never been a sex offender, you've got the wrong guy" Steven Avery was a guy who had been convicted of burglary, animal abuse, and assault w. A deadly weapon. His current fiancée, Jodi, had had a 72 hour emergency injunction against him, that he violated, that came as a result of a disorderly conduct incident. He was a felon in possession of a firearm. This is all just the proven violent incidents, doesn't even touch on the allegations made against him throughout the years. None of this makes him a murderer, but it makes him a great suspect. He can still be guilty of the murder, and Lenk and Colburn guilty of planting evidence. It doesn't have to be one or the other.


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[stephsb]

Did BD tell the police officers that SA molested him? I know he told his mom, just wondering if he told them?

Yes he did, although they pretty much dismissed it. He kind of danced around the subject. I'll try to find the specific interview and page numbers


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[stephsb]

At first I had had a hard time thinking LE planted all the evidence. Now I believe they created all. I believe they planted the Rav4. The bones. Everything.

And I pray they get caught.

The March 2005 Cottonwood fire in Adams county is about the type of fire that would do this to human remains. The DNA used to test for TH DNA came from her pap smear and from a soda can from her truck. I am skeptical and In this case I dont think it is unreasonable to believe this cover up is large and involved many people in many areas of this case.

Are you saying it wasn't Teresa in the fire? Or that she was burned in the Adams County fire or what exactly? Not sure if you are local (apologize if you are) but Adams is nearly three hours from Manitowoc County, what motivation could both counties have for being involved in the coverup? How would Adams county have become involved?

As for using a Pap smear, they isn't abnormal in a body identification case. They also made a positive ID with dental records, AFAIK. This is all explained in the Dassey probable cause statement


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[blastfemur]

Unfortunately, since they failed to cover the RAV4 w. a tarp against the advice of their DNA expert from Madison and let it sit out in the rain for hours, we will never know if there was evidence on the outside of the RAV4.

Somebody else mentioned that fingerprints were found on the outside but not run through any kind of database. I was under the impression that there was some evidence on the outside of the vehicle, but that it could not be linked to Avery. Which is it? If there was actually nothing to test on the outside of the vehicle then that makes the DNA on the hood latch more plausible.

 

[gittlebass]

If you read my post I said that I believe LE was willing to frame him by planting evidence, I don't believe they were willing to murder her and mutilate her body.

You seem to forget that the State did present DNA evidence, and the defense did claim it was planted, and did a great job of it. I have said myself I personally don't think I could have convicted Avery, but 12 jurors, who saw far more evidence than was shown the documentary, disagreed and convicted Avery.

As I stated, If the motive was sexual assault, Steven could still be a suspect, but his brother's, who had sex offenses against them, would also be prime suspects, if not better suspects than Steven. Just because he was exonerated on the rape conviction does not mean he can't sexually assault someone. If that was the case, no one would ever be convicted of a sex crime because they'd all just say "well I've never been a sex offender, you've got the wrong guy" Steven Avery was a guy who had been convicted of burglary, animal abuse, and assault w. A deadly weapon. His current fiancée, Jodi, had had a 72 hour emergency injunction against him, that he violated, that came as a result of a disorderly conduct incident. He was a felon in possession of a firearm. This is all just the proven violent incidents, doesn't even touch on the allegations made against him throughout the years. None of this makes him a murderer, but it makes him a great suspect. He can still be guilty of the murder, and Lenk and Colburn guilty of planting evidence. It doesn't have to be one or the other.


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I find it hard to believe that they framed a guilty man by luck. Yes, all those things sound damning when taken out of context, i agree the cat thing is ****ed up, but doesn't mean he's a murderer. He was previously convicted due to false evidence and always claimed he was innocent. He was about to enter a lawsuit for 36million dollars against the county that sued him, this lawsuit was not covered under the insurance by the county, so literally, all that money would have to come out of their pockets. There was no DNA other than what was found on the bullet and that bullet was contaminated by the lab technician. This isn't disputable, these are facts. There's no DNA evidence that any of sexual crimes occurred, there's no blood. a human body has 5 quartz of blood, where did it all go? someone stabbed, throat slit and shot should leave tons of evidence. there was nothing found, the prosecutors admitted in the doc that theres none found other than this magical bullet. I'm not saying the police killed her by any means, but they certainly had the time and opportunity to plant evidence, and why not plant it against the guy whose about to not only financially wreck your county but also destroy your careers.

 

[canadianwhitedove]

Here is my theory of what I have read and researched with my understanding as photographer and writer. This is not to be taken as fact but just a scenario that came to my mind.

Teresa left the Avery property, (propane truck driver witness the SUV leaving) While driving as a photographer she would be looking at her surroundings and an awesome photo shot opportunity (deer, flower, fox etc) near the Quarry. She removed her work camera card (as a freelancer she would turn that one over to the Autotrader) that had the photos of the vehicles on it, (a photo card was found in her SUV) and put in her personal one. She leaves her vehicle to get that perfect shot, now there were hunters (maybe Avery's family members) that had mistaken her movement for prey shot at her shoot at her twice hitting her in the head. Realizing what they(one or more people)did they panicked grabbed her body and put it the back of her SUV then took it to the Quarry, while still in a state panic and believing they have to cover up what they did, they burn the body. They move the SUV to another location away from the charred remains and toss the keys. (pictures of Teresa in front of her SUV when enlarge show her holding several keys with her SUV keys).

Now the police officer who called in the licence plate found the SUV, and maybe one or two others believing that this was so close to Avery's property and that he must of did it, moved it on the evening of the 3rd to the Avery property, (from photos the SUV was found close to the entrance leading to the Quarry) by using a tow rope and a personal truck. (thus explaining the damage on her SUV) and planted blood evidence to help cement their case removed the licence plates so as to make it look like Avery was hiding the vehicle.

Meanwhile her brother and Ex boyfriend and maybe even the roommate suspecting Avery because of the rumour, dislike of the family, and that he was the last known person to see her alive went to the Avery property on the evening of the 4th while driving slowly saw her vehicle even entered the SUV in hopes of find out something but because they were unlawfully on the property telling (even calling Pam the cousin) what they found she volunteers to go there the next day. So that she would be able to find the SUV quickly they covered it with branches and a hood as to have her look for that.

Around the same time the real killers (maybe family members), find out that suspicion is pointing to Avery, go back to the burn site and collect the remains using the burn barrel and put them in the fire pit.

Now the two officers realize that the SUV was not as they left it and because of how fast Pam found the SUV suspect the brother may have been on the property earlier, while the police left the doors unlocked they were now locked (the boys accidentally locked it). Telling them they do not have enough evidence against Avery and need a car key to make their scenario work, the brother gives them the spare key, which hangs in Teresa's home. The two officers wipe it down and plant it as evidence that Avery had access to the SUV. Just throwing it in a slipper or find in some article of worn clothing would give enough DNA to be put on the key.

Then came the alibi Brendan, DA unable to fully cement the case need to break that Alibi and had Brendan interviewed. Where they fed him information and at the same time his imagination is triggered creating the statement he made.

I believe this was not a set up by the police more like the perfect storm, with the eye of the storm being bias and judgment made before hand thus having several people perform acts to make a conviction as well as an inept investigation all factors of this case. Mind you Avery may still have done it, that I am not 100 percent sure of yet. Like I said it another scenario that does not imply the police killed Teresa, that it did happen somewhere else as well as takes into consideration other aspects of this case.

 

[AutumnDawn]

Just finished watching an interview with Strang, and he states that what we saw in the documentary were key points from both sides, and really nothing extraordinary was left out that jurors might have saw.

My theory based on phone records is that TH was arguing with someone, per the 8 calls and her coworker stating she was having an issue with someone. She went on about her day to see her clients, I think whoever the mystery person was followed her that day, it is not at all that far fetched. Maybe she turned off her phone after that last mystery call at 2:41 and they left a voicemail. She leaves, pulls over, or gets pulled over. Whoever it is kills her and leaves her body.

Andrew Colborn is notified of a missing person and runs across her vehicle out there. If they did not tamper with it, it would be more clear on where she went after leaving the yard. Colborn calls in the plates to verify, and then calls Lenk. They think Avery is responsible but the vehicle is not on his property. Some where in there they tow it over there, or drive it. Plants his blood so it looks like he was in it, and help the investigation.

Then it just spirals from that point.

 

[SCHMAE]

Welcome Blastfemur! Thank you for posting!

And what an awesome nickname !

 

[Midge Montana]

Was there a way to check phone messages online in 2005 ? Somewhere mid 2000s the internet became a lot more useful than it had been before but I have a hard time pinpointing when certain things were available ' online'. TIA if anyone knows the answer.

Not necessarily online, but I do know that you could dial your cell phone from any other phone and when it went to voicemail you could key in a code to hear your messages.
As far as the investigation part into her phone records, I truly believe that LE could get her records from the provider. Not the actual content of the messages, but a log of what phone numbers called her phone or numbers she called. There would also be, on those statements, an indication of when someone accessed her vm to listen to the messages. I had to think back to that time in my life, as to what technology was like then. You're right, that is a long time ago, but even if that info wasn't available for us to go look at in our account online, the printed paper monthly bills did show each 'transaction' so to speak. And again, surely the legal characters in this story could have gotten access through the carrier, in a murder investigation.
That is why I just cannot figure out why they didn't investigate and determine just who was dialing Teresa with those 'nuisance' calls. Should have been looked into and tagged as one of the first duties. Of course, tunnel-vision on the part of LE prevented this (as shown by Kratz's statements in court that they didn't realize they needed to go over her records but certainly could if that is the road the defense wanted to go down) but I'm astounded that the defense didn't cover this ground, as they did seem to be doing quite a thorough job with everything else.

 

[SCHMAE]

At first I had had a hard time thinking LE planted all the evidence. Now I believe they created all. I believe they planted the Rav4. The bones. Everything.

And I pray they get caught.

The March 2005 Cottonwood fire in Adams county is about the type of fire that would do this to human remains. The DNA used to test for TH DNA came from her pap smear and from a soda can from her truck. I am skeptical and In this case I dont think it is unreasonable to believe this cover up is large and involved many people in many areas of this case.

I have thought about this in other cases. You find a bone fragment in a fire or in a grave and then a " DNA LAB" hired by LE or working in contract with LE is giving you a result. So, if this was all planted evidence, there is no reason to think those bones didn't come from an evidence lab from some other person dead years earlier. But if you are saying they planted the bones, where is Teresa ?

 

[stephsb]

I find it hard to believe that they framed a guilty man by luck. Yes, all those things sound damning when taken out of context, i agree the cat thing is ****ed up, but doesn't mean he's a murderer. He was previously convicted due to false evidence and always claimed he was innocent. He was about to enter a lawsuit for 36million dollars against the county that sued him, this lawsuit was not covered under the insurance by the county, so literally, all that money would have to come out of their pockets. There was no DNA other than what was found on the bullet and that bullet was contaminated by the lab technician. This isn't disputable, these are facts. There's no DNA evidence that any of sexual crimes occurred, there's no blood. a human body has 5 quartz of blood, where did it all go? someone stabbed, throat slit and shot should leave tons of evidence. there was nothing found, the prosecutors admitted in the doc that theres none found other than this magical bullet. I'm not saying the police killed her by any means, but they certainly had the time and opportunity to plant evidence, and why not plant it against the guy whose about to not only financially wreck your county but also destroy your careers.

All of this I agree to and have said in prior posts, other than that they framed him by luck. They didn't frame him by luck, I believe they planted certain pieces of evidence on purpose to help get a conviction against Steven that they knew would stick.

I agree that the burning the cat is f'ed up, it's also part of the FBI's Homicidal triad, along w. arson. He was someone who had been falsely convicted, and that is terrible, but that doesn't erase all of the other felonious behavior he was involved in, both before and after his acquital. I have seen no evidence that he was trying to turn his life around after his acquital- he was once again a felon in possession of a firearm and he was being charged w. disorderly conduct and getting emergency restraining orders taken out against him.

As for the $36 million, as someone who has interned at a firm that does civil litigation, the plaintiffs rarely get the amount of money they ask for. He eventually settled for 400,000, which is not too bad considering what other exonerees around the country have received- John Thompson in LA was framed not once, but twice, by Orleans Parish for an attempted murder and murder he didnt commit, and served nearly 20 years on LA's Death Row. He fought his case all the way to the US Supreme Court, where the landmark case of Connick v. Thompson decided that Orleans Parish did not have to pay Thompson anything for his false imprisonment because there was no "pattern of misconduct". Even though I don't believe he would have received 36mil, he would have likely got a payout, and so the motive for Manitowoc County to frame him still exists. As I said, I believe they planted certain pieces of evidence- without a doubt, the key (at least IMO).

I completely agree that they had no DNA evidence other than the bullet, which I think could have been planted. I don't believe her throat was slit, that is indisputable. If she was stabbed or shot, it wasn't in the garage or the bedroom, the two places Brendan said it occured. I read all 400 some pages of Brendan's statements to police, and most of his trial transcripts, and believe 100 percent he is not involved in the murder and it didnt happen at all how he said it did. That doesn't mean it didnt happen. Same goes for sexual assault. No evidence doesn't mean it didnt happen- it just means it didn't happen where they said it did. There were cadaver dog hits on that property, and her bone fragments were found burned in Avery's burn pit, and positively identified as hers. If Avery didnt murder her and the police didnt murder her, who did? I've presented the list of 4 suspects the defense wanted looked at. I think all 4 of them could be possible and should have been investigated, and I think one of them is a better suspect than Steven, IMO. I have never said i believe Avery is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt- I have simply said that I am sick of seeing him portrayed as someone who had no motive for this crime.

 

[stephsb]

Somebody else mentioned that fingerprints were found on the outside but not run through any kind of database. I was under the impression that there was some evidence on the outside of the vehicle, but that it could not be linked to Avery. Which is it? If there was actually nothing to test on the outside of the vehicle then that makes the DNA on the hood latch more plausible.

the information about the tarp was taken directly from Brendan Dassey's trial transcripts, and the testimony of John Earl, who was a witness for the State. There was no usable evidence found on the outside of the RAV4, I'd have to read his testimony over to make sure no partials were found. I am certain, however, that he mentioned that it had rained on and off for a few hours, and the vehicle was not covered w. a tarp, against his advice. This was brought out during cross

 

[Soulmagent]

Are you saying it wasn't Teresa in the fire? Or that she was burned in the Adams County fire or what exactly? Not sure if you are local (apologize if you are) but Adams is nearly three hours from Manitowoc County, what motivation could both counties have for being involved in the coverup? How would Adams county have become involved?

As for using a Pap smear, they isn't abnormal in a body identification case. They also made a positive ID with dental records, AFAIK. This is all explained in the Dassey probable cause statement


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I am saying it is possible that the state lab had a set of burnt bones somewhere. The large Cottonwood fire was a huge deal in 2005 in WI . It inspired me to think about other options for the bonefire bones in light of the Key being planted (which I think it pretty proven in court) The cottonwood fire has little to do it this case other than ,if people were searching for remains they would have looked a lot like what was in the box of bones.No reports of deaths from that fire I have found.

We don't have all the evidence reports or anything but we know money is a motive for crime and 35 million is huge to pretty much the state and that there were corrupt people working in this investigation so I am not limiting my thinking on a feeling that it is crazy to think LE in this case would be above this.