New "Dateline" - 2010.11.12 Kyron Horman case

[cluciano63]

I can't understand her lying about a such an easily verifiable thing like a doctor's appointment. That could be disproven by LE in a matter of minutes.

If she did, that could almost go in her favor toward the "loony" side, as it makes no sense at all.

 

[mmmagique]

I can't believe she'd take the time to bother finding out what was wrong with a child she apparently then decided to do something against.

Or she found something on the internet and worked it into her story.

 

[grandmaj]

I find it highly suspect that the child's father was not told, but the day after the child went missing she tells one of her friends this story in an email.

If a child is having unknown cause seizures, you rush, not walk the child to the doctor. If the doctor cannot see you, you go to the hospital. And you tell his father who is his legal guardian.

 

[JBean]

Kaine definitely knew that Kyron was having problems in attentiveness at school, because that was one of the behaviors that she wanted Kyron sent to his room for if his daily behavior report showed that or other things. Kaine didn't say if he agreed or not, but had to know that lack of attentiveness could be a possible problem eventually having to be dealt with. That seems to be the road that Terri was going down. Kaine also stated that Kyron was being actively worked with about listening due to some minor problems with listening to adults. This isn't seizure symptoms, but could be related. I think if Kyron was behaving forgetfully and walking in then right out of a room it was just that he was trying to avoid someone and could pretend that he forgot what he wanted in the first place. Maybe Terri was the only one he ever did this with. Maybe she wanted to discover some new problem and be the hero since she is credited with finding his vision problems.

Inattentiveness can be from seizures. I have an epileptic son and that was a BIG problem. he would just check out for a few minutes due to absence or petit mal seizures and it would appear he just wasn't paying attention.

Your idea about Kyron walking out of the room was exactly what i was thinking. I wonder if he just didn't want to deal with her when she was intoxicated OR because she was intoxicated she was just misreading what she saw.
OR he really was having seizure type activity.

One thought I had was that if she is behind Kyron's disappearance, was she inventing this to somehow explain an accident he was going to have at some point?

of course all of this is just my opinion.

 

[JBean]

I find it highly suspect that the child's father was not told, but the day after the child went missing she tells one of her friends this story in an email.

If a child is having unknown cause seizures, you rush, not walk the child to the doctor. If the doctor cannot see you, you go to the hospital. And you tell his father who is his legal guardian.

I totally agree with your first sentence grandmaj. Excellent point and very odd indeedy. But I will tell you that seeing minor seizure activity is really not an emergency and scheduling an appointment is entirely reasonable. Now a tonic-clonic or grandmal type seizure for the first time would definitely be an emergency situation due to unkown cause at the time. But the symptoms she describes are not emergency sounding in nature.

 

[gwenabob]

I totally agree with your first sentence grandmaj. Excellent point and very odd indeedy. But I will tell you that seeing minor seizure activity is really not an emergency and scheduling an appointment is entirely reasonable. Now a tonic-clonic or grandmal type seizure for the first time would definitely be an emergency situation due to unkown cause at the time. But the symptoms she describes are not emergency sounding in nature.

I agree. So there would be no reason for Kaine and Desiree to not be included in this issue. None at all.

 

[Aedrys]

I can't understand her lying about a such an easily verifiable thing like a doctor's appointment. That could be disproven by LE in a matter of minutes.

If she did, that could almost go in her favor toward the "loony" side, as it makes no sense at all.

Actually it does. Here is Terri Horman, concerned supermom finding symptoms of seizures in Kyron before Kaine and Desiree even know. Here is the same woman saving the day by making a doctor's appointment for him. It was supposed to go to how good of a mom she is. It was supposed to show that she knew more about him than his own bio parents did. It was supposed to help uphold how she couldn't have done this because look how much she cared for Kyron, she was saving his life by seeing things his own bio parents couldn't. Kaine and Desiree were supposed to be in shock and awe that they missed the symptoms, but thank GOD for a great stepmother like Terri to see it time and take steps to save his life. They'd support her innocence with the police because she was saving his life. And someone who does that can't possibly want to hurt the same child.

And remember, this is a woman with an ego who thought she could charm and manipulate anyone, even the police. She figured they would just believe her about the appointment and think she was a good mom and couldn't have done this. With Kaine and Desiree singing her praises to the police, they wouldn't have bothered to think she was suspicious or had done anything. She was counting on impressing Kaine and Desiree so they could impress upon the police how innocent she was so that she wouldn't be looked into in the first place, so no one would find out that she lied about the appointment. She apparently severely underestimated not only LE but Kaine and Desiree as well. She made a HUGE mistake by trying to bring something in to make her look good that could easily be disproven and make her look bad instead.

People who do bad things, when they get finally get caught, a lot of the time it's not for big mistakes. It's for small ones they didn't even see coming. Terri thought this was just another lie that people would believe. In the big picture of things, I highly doubt the appointment was the biggest piece of the puzzle for her. It was a small piece that she didn't even consider might be her downfall.

I mean honestly, without the appointment, Terri doesn't look nearly as suspicious. But that appointment, that contrived lie, in my opinion, was the first domino that made everything else fall. I bet when LE talked to that doctor, IMO, that doctor had no idea who she was much less about any appointment, and that turned LE onto Terri like lasers. I know we don't know what the doctor said, but would the appointment still be such a big deal if yes, she had one? It would be nothing to be talked about if it was verified. Instead, the bio parents had no idea, and I'm betting the doctor had no idea either.

That's another thing about people who do bad things. They don't always think everything through. Terri probably only thought about what would make her look good, what would be a good alibi for her. She didn't think about the fact that LE would verify that lie, or that people wouldn't believe her. After all, she's supermom, saving the day with a child not even her own blood. Why would anyone doubt that and think she had anything to do with what happened to Kyron?

It's Terri's severe underestimating of her own power and the intelligence of people in general that is going to be her biggest downfall. And the appointment is just one piece that shows that. Lunacy it is to think that people wouldn't see right through that. It just shows how much ego she has and how powerful she thought she was that she would snow everyone with her perfect loving mother routine, but how ironic how much it hasn't worked in her favor.

I bet she kicks herself everyday that she ever brought the appointment into this. If it's proven that she lied about that, then what else would she lie about? I don't blame LE, if they did prove that the appointment was a fake, for continuing to look into Terri and her story.

 

[Kimmer]

Here are a few of my thoughts on the Dateline program...I am happy to see that it was brought up that just because the phone pinged at SI does not mean that TH was there, I have always thought that there was a hand off of the phone, and that IF they find his remains it will be in the opposite direction of SI...I also have always felt that there was a reason he was wearing a CSI t-shirt that day and it was not because he looked good in blue...As far as KH not mentioning to Dateline during the first interviews about TH drinking habits it because at that point he was in utter shock, his son was missing, he had been informed by LE about the MFH plot and was doing everything he could to get baby K away from the person that it was becoming increasingly clear probably had something to do with his son missing, this is not really a proper time to start blasting all of your marriage issues to the general public, I feel comfortable in thinking that he was very open to LE about all of his marriage problems way before he was ready to tell the general public all of the gory details....I would like to know what was on the 1st FM receipt if you go to get meds for a sick child that they don't have then I would just leave and go to the 2nd one, but if I was trying to cover my butt and make a time line I would sure make sure I bought something at the 1st store, which is what I think TH did..

From what I have seen from this case so far, I don't think that TH was the perfect stepmother, I think when TH was around other people with Kyron she probably came off as the best thing since sliced bread, but the truth lies in how he was treated when it was just TH, Kyron and Baby K I bet money that Kyron was not treated well this is JMO and my thoughts on that subject...

Now when we get to the heavy drinking I agree with another poster from earlier (sorry can't remember who) that if people started checking some of the local liquor stores that would tell the tale of how much and what TH was drinking and in what amounts, I really wish that one of her good friends would flip and get her drinking with them while wearing a wire, most people have very loose lips when they have thrown back a few it would be interesting to hear what she would have to say and what her overall attitude is about this case..

By the way WHERE IS KYRON?

 

[JBean]

I agree. So there would be no reason for Kaine and Desiree to not be included in this issue. None at all.

totally agree. that is why what grandmaj posted about the email is particularly odd.

 

[Kimmer]

By the way I had silent seizures from kindergarten to 5th grade, and to actually get a diagnosis there are several tests involved, you don't just call the Dr and explain symptoms or go into an apt and get a diagnosis, it is also very unlikely that only 1 parent would see him having these episodes, at the hight of my activity I was having 60-75 seizures a day no way to hide that from the other parent not to mention teachers at the school.

 

[JBean]

One last thought and then I suppose we are all OT.
But did TH say she took Kyron to the doctor previously and that is where the doctor suggested seizure activity the and appt was to test for it? or was this supposed to be a conversation on the phone? I mean suggesting min seizures is kind of random thought on the doctor's part if this is a phone conversation.
all odd.

 

[debs]

How could someone with such a narcissistic need to be considered a supermom fail to capture her audience? If her goal was to show Kaine and Desiree she was a better parent than they were, then she'd have run, not walked, to tell them about this Dr appointment. But it seems the general consensus is that she kept it from them. I don't know that, but working with that theory, it would seem that along with seduction, Terri is a FAIL at capturing her audience.

 

[debs]

One last thought and then I suppose we are all OT.
But did TH say she took Kyron to the doctor previously and that is where the doctor suggested seizure activity the and appt was to test for it? or was this supposed to be a conversation on the phone? I mean suggesting min seizures is kind of random thought on the doctor's part if this is a phone conversation.
all odd.

She said it was his doctor that told her he could be having mini-seizures.

 

[Aedrys]

How could someone with such a narcissistic need to be considered a supermom fail to capture her audience? If her goal was to show Kaine and Desiree she was a better parent than they were, then she'd have run, not walked, to tell them about this Dr appointment. But it seems the general consensus is that she kept it from them. I don't know that, but working with that theory, it would seem that along with seduction, Terri is a FAIL at capturing her audience.

Exactly. Not every narcisstic person is successful at manipulating and charming people. Just look at Casey Anthony and her mother Cindy Anthony. Narcissism at it's finest, and they just won't quit thinking that whatever they say is not going to be believed. Part of narcissism is believing, with the utmost stubbornness, that everyone is wrong when the narcissist is the only one right. Why should Terri tell Kaine and Desiree about the appointment? That would take away from the shock and awe factor. No, let them find out about this appointment and praise her for making it - that is what she was counting on, them believing she made the appointment and that she was saving Kyron's life. She didn't count on them totally disbelieving her, and then from there, the lie being proven. She counted on them believing the very words coming out of her mouth.

That's a narcissist for you. They don't expect anyone to go beyond their words and prove them wrong. And even then, narcissists still persist in believing their own words, no matter how much it's proven those words are lies. It's why people like Casey Anthony are where they are. She'll never admit what she did to Caylee. She'll always to want to blame it on someone else because her narcissism impedes her ability to believe ANYTHING beyond her own words. If Terri is anything like her, and I believe she is, she won't ever admit to what she did because she can't believe that her words are lies. Everyone believed them before. Everyone thought she was a good mother before. Why would her words be lies even now? She'd rather destroy everything around her instead of admit that she's wrong and did something wrong. That's just not being a perfect supermom. She can't not be that in her own mind. So the lie has to stand, has to work, has to be truth.

Narcissists can't fathom that their lies don't work. This is why they doggedly persist, even in the face of a mountain of evidence that proves them wrong, to continue with the lies. They keep believing that lies are going to prove everyone else wrong. Casey is still waiting for something that is never going to happen, but that hope is always there for her because she's a narcissist. The same came be said for Terri. If she doesn't say anything, if she never admits that she's wrong and did something wrong to Kyron, then it can never be true in her mind.

She believed the lie about the appointment would work. After all, her lies worked before and look how people thought she was a great mom when in reality, she wasn't. I bet she still can't fathom why that lie about the appointment didn't work like a charm like all her other lies did. For a narcissist, a lie not working just doesn't add up, just doesn't make sense to them.

It may look stupid or crazy to us, but to her, a true narcissist, it made perfect sense because the lie is the truth to them.

ETA: Desiree tolerating her, Kaine not pressing her on issues - she already THOUGHT she had captured her audience. That was her mistake. That is why she thought her lies would easily work.

 

[gwenabob]

One last thought and then I suppose we are all OT.
But did TH say she took Kyron to the doctor previously and that is where the doctor suggested seizure activity the and appt was to test for it? or was this supposed to be a conversation on the phone? I mean suggesting min seizures is kind of random thought on the doctor's part if this is a phone conversation.
all odd.

She said she explained the symptoms over the phone and they made the appointment.

 

[debs]

But Desiree states Terri definitely provided Kyron with what he needed. Needed, which was love, care, and concern. I'm having a hard time twisting Desiree's words into an image of a narcissist.

 

[Aedrys]

But Desiree states Terri definitely provided Kyron with what he needed. Needed, which was love, care, and concern. I'm having a hard time twisting Desiree's words into an image of a narcissist.

Well yeah, is she going to sit there and tell Desiree she wasn't providing Kyron with what he needed? Now that would be stupid. Of course Terri is going to tell Desiree that Terri gave Kyron what he needed. She spent the most time with him. Desiree is probably desperate to believe that Terri did give Kyron what he needed. If not, then what was she doing to him in all that time she was supposed to be taking care of him? Besides, her narcisstic need to be supermom would have her putting up photos and showing off as much as possible what a great mom she was. How was Desiree supposed to know any different if all she was seeing was supermom Terri all the time?

 

[mmmagique]

Remember that this Dr. explanation was in an email to a friend of hers. This email was a lament that people were "blaming her." This was her explanation to her friend of why they shouldn't. She never expected anyone else to hear it. (imo) So she felt confident in "trying out" that explanation on her friend.

If you got all the people together she's ever talked to about anything bad she's ever done or been suspected of doing, I suspect you'd find lots of different and varying explanations, all of them from Terri.

 

[Trt]

But Desiree states Terri definitely provided Kyron with what he needed. Needed, which was love, care, and concern. I'm having a hard time twisting Desiree's words into an image of a narcissist.

So did Casey and Cindy provide little Caylee with love, care, and concern. At least on the surface. I don't think anyone will argue that those two show signs of narcissism.

Back OT, are we believing little CL when he says that the SF projects were brought in and set up on June 4(the he saw Terri and Kyron come in with the project that morning). The original report was that the SF projects were set up the evening of the 3rd (when Terri provided Mrs. Porter with the "appointment paperwork"). That Terri needed the truck on the 3rd also to take Kyron's project to school and on the 4th to bring it back.

Little CL may have his days mixed together(highly likely as I think little T does), but I found that very odd that this is the first we heard of SF projects not coming to the school until 6/4. I hope that Dateline or someone will clarify this as it was the reporter stating what little CL had said and not an actual clip with him saying it.

JMO

 

[BeanE]

Posting for reference on the seizures:

Emails sent on June 5

Typed up Terri's email excerpts up from what is shown on the screen in this video:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html?tab=video

SBM

Screenshot 4:
The past 2 weeks he’s been acting really weird. Staring off into space. Can’t remember anything. Walks into the room and then back out, stopping to stare and then move on. The doc thinks he is having mini seizures and I made an appt. on Thursday for the next Friday to have him checked out.