New "I'm not convinced" thread

[SleuthyGal]

However, aside from any bonds between twins, there needs to be evidence that BC murdered Nancy. That's what has to be established in order for a case to move towards prosecution. Feelings, intuition, a strong bond are very compelling signs for the people involved, but the court can only go on what is provable beyond a reasonable doubt (in a criminal trial).

So if he did it, but there is no obtainable forensic evidence at the house, nothing at the scene, no DNA on Nancy's body, and nothing otherwise linking him to Nancy's murder which can be shown, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he committed the crime or is involved in Nancy's murder, then he will not be charged. It's as simple as that.

 

[rwesafe]

If we consider the exceedingly strong twin bond that occurs (esp. between identical twins), should we not also give credence to Krista's assertion that deep in her gut, in her heart, she believes (perhaps 'knows' in that twin way) that her sister was murdered by BC? If we discount one side of the equation then we will have to discount all sides of the equation. A twin bond doesn't only work when a sibling is having an affair...a lot of twins can feel when their twin-sibling is in danger. Krista felt panicked at the predicament Nancy was in...she testified that she called their father, crying, and begged him to find a way to get Nancy out of the state and to them in Canada where she would be safe.

It is rare that twins actually have some sort of ESP that enables them to see the same thing at the same time. My twin died in February of this year. I can tell you the exact moment of death. But, just like everyone else, it required an autopsy report to alert me to the cause of death. The twin bond in this case did not sense when NC was having an affair....she told her she was having an affair and I feel sure she told her of others. Losing a twin is painful to a point of making one crazy. Twins have somewhat of a narcissitic tendancy to view their sibling as an extension of themselves. It is difficult wrap your mind around younger or older or different. But, all of that being said, the pain is so tremendous that you want someone, anyone to pay for ripping away what was more like an appendage to you than a sibling. This does not alway produce rational thinking. I feel for Krista. I can empathize with her pain....but I know that she knows more than she is telling....because that is how twins are...

As far as Krista calling her father and begging....I still feel that it is strange that Mr. K indicated during one of the earlier pressers that he was not concerned with or fearful of her safety...it just does not add up...

 

[NC_Mom_Next_Door]

Everything I've heard so far sounds like a pretty typical divorce scenario. A rather tame one, in fact. Not unusual for one party's family and friends to see the other party as a villain. Not unusual for someone to be homesick, cry, want to go home especially if from another country. Not unusual for one party to cut off finances to another or seem controlling. Not unusual for one party to do non-typical things, like housework, to appease the other.

I try to imagine being in the midst of a divorce and them something happening to the other spouse. How many of us would have a alibi? How many of us would look bad in the eyes of the opposition?

Yes, people kill their spouses all the time. But sometimes, people in the middle of a divorce are murdered by strangers. Surely someone on this board has some statistics on that?

 

[rwesafe]

:clap:

Everything I've heard so far sounds like a pretty typical divorce scenario. A rather tame one, in fact. Not unusual for one party's family and friends to see the other party as a villain. Not unusual for someone to be homesick, cry, want to go home especially if from another country. Not unusual for one party to cut off finances to another or seem controlling. Not unusual for one party to do non-typical things, like housework, to appease the other.

I try to imagine being in the midst of a divorce and them something happening to the other spouse. How many of us would have a alibi? How many of us would look bad in the eyes of the opposition?

Yes, people kill their spouses all the time. But sometimes, people in the middle of a divorce are murdered by strangers. Surely someone on this board has some statistics on that?

 

[Anderson]

It is rare that twins actually have some sort of ESP that enables them to see the same thing at the same time. My twin died in February of this year. I can tell you the exact moment of death. But, just like everyone else, it required an autopsy report to alert me to the cause of death. The twin bond in this case did not sense when NC was having an affair....she told her she was having an affair and I feel sure she told her of others. Losing a twin is painful to a point of making one crazy. Twins have somewhat of a narcissitic tendancy to view their sibling as an extension of themselves. It is difficult wrap your mind around younger or older or different. But, all of that being said, the pain is so tremendous that you want someone, anyone to pay for ripping away what was more like an appendage to you than a sibling. This does not alway produce rational thinking. I feel for Krista. I can empathize with her pain....but I know that she knows more than she is telling....because that is how twins are...

As far as Krista calling her father and begging....I still feel that it is strange that Mr. K indicated during one of the earlier pressers that he was not concerned with or fearful of her safety...it just does not add up...

My only thought on that is that perhaps the reason that GR said that he did not take it seriously, is BECAUSE when KL called her father and asked him to help NC he actually didn't take it seriously at that point. Perhaps that is exactly what he is referring to. Hard to know for sure.

I am sure that GR now wishes that he had listened to KL. Very sad for GR, KL and the family . . . .

 

[Anderson]

However, aside from any bonds between twins, there needs to be evidence that BC murdered Nancy. That's what has to be established in order for a case to move towards prosecution. Feelings, intuition, a strong bond are very compelling signs for the people involved, but the court can only go on what is provable beyond a reasonable doubt (in a criminal trial).

So if he did it, but there is no obtainable forensic evidence at the house, nothing at the scene, no DNA on Nancy's body, and nothing otherwise linking him to Nancy's murder which can be shown, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he committed the crime or is involved in Nancy's murder, then he will not be charged. It's as simple as that.

Yes, I agree, while the twin thing is interesting, it would never be considered in a legal setting. There must be evidence that goes beyond feelings and a sense of connection. I just responded to this and explored it a bit, since it was already being discussed here.

 

[rwesafe]

My only thought on that is that perhaps the reason that GR said that he did not take it seriously, is BECAUSE when KL called her father and asked him to help NC he actually didn't take it seriously at that point. Perhaps that is exactly what he is referring to. Hard to know for sure.

I am sure that GR now wishes that he had listened to KL. Very sad for GR, KL and the family . . . .

Nope does not add up. Parents of twins....they know better. They just do.

 

[rwesafe]

My only thought on that is that perhaps the reason that GR said that he did not take it seriously, is BECAUSE when KL called her father and asked him to help NC he actually didn't take it seriously at that point. Perhaps that is exactly what he is referring to. Hard to know for sure.

I am sure that GR now wishes that he had listened to KL. Very sad for GR, KL and the family . . . .

But, since you mention, the only reason I can imagine that he did not take it seriously....is perhaps because NC had a proclivity to exaggerate, or was prone to histrionics...

 

[Anderson]

Nope does not add up. Parents of twins....they know better. They just do.

The twin bond will certainly not be considered evidence in a legal setting anyway, so it is only interesting as part of our informal discussion on the board. Krista's testimony will be considered in the Judges decision, however. I doubt that this is related to the fact that she is her twin. I imagine that KL's testimony is important, because she was very close to NC and close to the situation.

If you are going to accept the twin bond thing, then you have to accept it across the board. If KL should always be trusted with regard to her concern about NC when speaking to her father, then you have to trust everything that she says now in affidavits, testimony etc. IMO, that follows and is the only thing that makes sense.

Perhaps GR thought about the twin relationship in the same way that you do. For example, he may have thought that KL had an overreaction to NC's situation and was going to tremendous lengths to protect her:

Twins have somewhat of a narcissitic tendancy to view their sibling as an extension of themselves. It is difficult wrap your mind around younger or older or different. But, all of that being said, the pain is so tremendous that you want someone, anyone to pay for ripping away what was more like an appendage to you than a sibling. This does not alway produce rational thinking.

Although you are talking about your twin's death here, perhaps that can be extended to other situations where one twin perceives that the other is in danger. You mentioned that you are/were very protective of your twin (I am very sorry for your loss rwesafe)

In any case, GR clearly has his family's best interests at heart. So does KL. This is a very sad situation.

Just a thought.

 

[ncsu95]

Everything I've heard so far sounds like a pretty typical divorce scenario. A rather tame one, in fact. Not unusual for one party's family and friends to see the other party as a villain. Not unusual for someone to be homesick, cry, want to go home especially if from another country. Not unusual for one party to cut off finances to another or seem controlling. Not unusual for one party to do non-typical things, like housework, to appease the other.

I try to imagine being in the midst of a divorce and them something happening to the other spouse. How many of us would have a alibi? How many of us would look bad in the eyes of the opposition?

Yes, people kill their spouses all the time. But sometimes, people in the middle of a divorce are murdered by strangers. Surely someone on this board has some statistics on that?

Exactly. And that's why this thread (and the previous one) exists.

 

[Anderson]

But, since you mention, the only reason I can imagine that he did not take it seriously....is perhaps because NC had a proclivity to exaggerate, or was prone to histrionics...

This is based on some :crazy: interpretations of the meaning of NC's exaggerations. The key examples that I have seen from Mike and Scott say absolutely nothing about NC, except that she had a great sense of humour:

MH: NC felt trapped because she didn't have a car
SH: NC called a small pool an Olympic-sized pool

If these are the main examples, then I know a lot of Canadians that are prone to exaggerations . Sarcasm is very common in Canadian humor.

Here is a post on Canadian sarcasm that I put up some time ago when we were discussing SH and the olympic-sized pool:

I believe that sarcasm is one of the hallmarks of Canadian humour. This comment on the challenges of living south of the border was written by a Canadian living in the U.S.A.:

"Also, language: I get picked on steadily even though I've worked hard to lose the "eh". Another big [difference] is the sense of humour. Canadian humour is much more sarcastic and drier then American humour. What is funny in Canada leaves most Americans looking at you like you a fool. They sometimes take offense. I have found that once they get used to you they start to understand."

http://www.cbc.ca/canadaus/canus_panel_diff.html

Scroll down to the section called "International Guide To Canada" for some examples of Canadian sarcasm:

http://deseng.ryerson.ca/xiki/Lenk/Main:Canadian_humour

The experience of the woman living in the US helps us to understand why NC's (great) sense of humour was not always understood by SH, MH and others.

 

[jmflu]

The experience of the woman living in the US helps us to understand why NC's (great) sense of humour was not always understood by SH, MH and others.

There must be some Canadians on the WS board!

 

[Anderson]

There must be some Canadians on the WS board!

Not me, of course.:hand:

:takeoff: :rolling:

 

[jmflu]

Not me, of course.:hand:

:takeoff: :rolling:

I always understand the Anderson!:blowkiss:

 

[rwesafe]

If you are going to accept the twin bond thing, then you have to accept it across the board. If KL should always be trusted with regard to her concern about NC when speaking to her father, then you have to trust everything that she says now in affidavits, testimony etc. IMO, that follows and is the only thing that makes sense.

Perhaps GR thought about the twin relationship in the same way that you do. For example, he may have thought that KL had an overreaction to NC's situation and was going to tremendous lengths to protect her:

Although you are talking about your twin's death here, perhaps that can be extended to other situations where one twin perceives that the other is in danger. You mentioned that you are/were very protective of your twin (I am very sorry for your loss rwesafe)

In any case, GR clearly has his family's best interests at heart. So does KL. This is a very sad situation.

Just a thought.

That was not my thought at all.

Thank you.

I'm sure that after you have read the book "Twin Connections" you are more of an expert than I, because I am merely, but a twin...but I assure you, her father did not react for a very real reason and I suspect that reason was that NC was prone to exaggeration....

 

[SleuthyGal]

My twin died in February of this year.

Rwesafe, I'm very sorry for your loss. :frown:

 

[rwesafe]

And yes, you are right, no matter what, this is a very sad and devastating situation.

 

[rwesafe]

Rwesafe, I'm very sorry for your loss. :frown:

Thank you.

 

[SleuthyGal]

The coincidence is quite striking though, would you not agree, that Krista was feeling frantic about Nancy's situation, to the point that she herself was in tears and calling their father to discuss how to get her out of Canada, and week(s) later Nancy just happens to be murdered?

We can say that Nancy exaggerated, or that Krista worried too much or that the parents 'should have' known something (though why they should have known I don't exactly know), but at the end of that HH trip Nancy was scared/sad/sobbing to come home and 5 days later Nancy WAS murdered. The night before her murder she tells at least one friend that she and Brad are "back in hate mode." The next morning she's dead. If that isn't the world's biggest coinky-dink I don't know what is.

So here's another stat for you to research: how many women who are in a contentious, hostile rel'p, heading towards divorce, whose sibling(s) and friends are worried, are murdered, and someone else (NOT the intimate partner/spouse of the victim) committed or was responsible for the crime without any involvement from the intimate partner/spouse?

I bet that % is very low, but if you can research it and provide some info on what you are able to find, that would be great.

 

[jmflu]

...but I assure you, her father did not react for a very real reason and I suspect that reason was that NC was prone to exaggeration....

Or maybe, it was just because she seemed to always be having troubles with her marriage, and he was used to that, so didn't suddenly sense any immediate danger.