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Jayelles said:
I don't agree with your theory, but I respect you as a poster. Has anyone ever leaked the results of Burke's handwriting analysis to you?


Jayelles,

Nope, no one has released the results of Burke's handwriting analysis to me but, if they would, I think we'd all have a much better understanding of what really happened that night. So far, the closest they've come to publicly admitting that Burke may have written the ransom note was the CBI's Chet Ubowski opinion in the 3/1/97 Michigan search warrant:

o "The analysis of the handwriting samples obtained from John Ramsey showed "indications" that John Ramsey did not write the reported ransom note."

o "The analysis of the handwriting samples obtained from Burke Ramsey showed that it was "probable" that Burke Ramsey did not write the reported ransom note."

o "The analysis of the handwriting samples obtained from Patsy Ramsey showed "indications" which suggest that Patsy Ramsey may have written the reported ransom note."

JMO
 
I enjoy Imon, she is very smart and :blowkiss: into this case. We need her.


SisterSocks
 
BlueCrab said:
Jayelles,

Nope, no one has released the results of Burke's handwriting analysis to me but, if they would, I think we'd all have a much better understanding of what really happened that night. So far, the closest they've come to publicly admitting that Burke may have written the ransom note was the CBI's Chet Ubowski opinion in the 3/1/97 Michigan search warrant:
o "The analysis of the handwriting samples obtained from Burke Ramsey showed that it was "probable" that Burke Ramsey did not write the reported ransom note."

JMO
Count on BlueCrab to go from evidence suggesting Burke did NOT write the RN to the implied claim that this supports his theory! This is what's known as playing fast and loose with the facts. BC seems only too happy to ignore that the overwhelming weight of the evidence taken individually, including this particular piece, and certainly this piece, is that Burke did NOT do it!
 
DocWatson said:
...the overwhelming weight of the evidence taken individually, including this particular piece, and certainly this piece, is that Burke did NOT do it!
That is correct, DocW. The expert Ubowski said Patsy Ramsey may have written the reported ransom note. Not John, not Burke... PATSY.
 
DocWatson said:
Count on BlueCrab to go from evidence suggesting Burke did NOT write the RN to the implied claim that this supports his theory! This is what's known as playing fast and loose with the facts. BC seems only too happy to ignore that the overwhelming weight of the evidence taken individually, including this particular piece, and certainly this piece, is that Burke did NOT do it!


DocWatson,

My post consists of quotes from Chet Ubowski while under oath. If you have a beef with what he wrote, then please call him and complain.

In Ubowski's opinion, the writer "probably" was not Burke. That's a long ways from saying he didn't write it.

JMO
 
DocW, whether Burke wrote the note is neither here nor there in determining whether he killed JonBenet. That aside, please back up your claim that there is overwhelming evidence that Burke didn't kill JonBenet, by telling us specifically what that evidence is.

By the way, did you ever receive a reply from Keenan confirming that Burke was cleared?

imo
 
Ivy said:
whether Burke wrote the note is neither here nor there in determining whether he killed JonBenet.
That's right Ivy. I think the evidence is clear that Patsy wrote the note. Nobody else could have written that note and matched so many of Patsy's previous writing exemplars. The highest probability is that Patsy wrote the note to cover for something Burke did that caused her death.

Anyway, Patsy writing the note fits well with all of BlueCrab's theories. I don't know why BC is so hell-bent on Burke writing the note. Even Thomas said, "Burke didn't have the wherewithal to commit the entire crime." Thomas' mistake was giving Burke a pass because of that shallow thinking and lack of insight. Thomas couldn't manage to consider the parents covering up for something that started with Burke.
 
Shylock said:
Anyway, Patsy writing the note fits well with all of BlueCrab's theories. I don't know why BC is so hell-bent on Burke writing the note.


Shylock,

I'm not exactly hell-bent on it, but I think that way because the six examiners the CBI used came to the conclusion that John didn't write the note and there was a very low probability that Patsy wrote it. That leaves Burke. Those six were the only examiners who had the original note to study and all of the exemplars to examine.

We don't know the results of Burke's handwriting analyses given by the CBI. Why don't they release this information if Burke is in the clear? And why doesn't Patsy remember who wrote the captions in Burke's photo album? According to Darnay Hoffman's examiners, whoever wrote the captions also wrote the ransom note. And look at it this way:

If it's proven Patsy wrote the note, it still doesn't prove Patsy killed JonBenet.

If it's proven Burke wrote the note, the crime is solved.

JMO
 
Ivy said:
DocW, whether Burke wrote the note is neither here nor there in determining whether he killed JonBenet.
Tell that to BC: he thinks that if it can be proved that Burke wrote the note, the case is solved.

Ivy said:
That aside, please back up your claim that there is overwhelming evidence that Burke didn't kill JonBenet, by telling us specifically what that evidence is.
Perhaps I should have been more clear. There is overwhelming evidence of an intruder, which BC himself concedes. The problem comes in "marrying" this intruder evidence with any credible theory that BDI and that parents covered this up. Again, even BC concedes that it is implausible to believe that Burke and friend(s) did this entirely on their own (i.e., including RN, alleged "staging" etc.). I cite BC only because he is the most vocal and insistent of the BDI theorists posting here. If you have an alternative BDI theory NOT involving parents or intruder (i.e., the "5th person" whom Burke allegedly let into the house), then please spell it out in detail and I would be happy to share Sherlock's views on its plausibility.

Either the intruder was malevolent, i.e., came to Ramseys with intent of killing JBR, i.e., part of a small foreign faction (e.g., APAC) trying to send a message, in which case parental complicity in a cover-up is completely implausible, OR
the intruder had no intent to kill JBR but nevertheless very much wanted to molest her!--either by proxy, i.e., encouraging Burke and same-aged friend to engage in AEA activities with her, resulting in an accidental death, or by himself with Burke watching or assisting. Again, the idea that the parents would be aware of either of these possibilities and conclude that the best strategy was to cover everthing up, making themselves VILIFIED in the press for years in the process just doesn't compute. MAYBE if the older teen/young adult perp were their own child, they possibly would have a motive to cover up out of embarrassment, but in this instance we're asked to believe that the Ramseys would feel it worth the tsunami of aggravation that has ensued in order to protect the Stines' babysitter!!!!

Thus, the overwhelming evidence is a combination of the substantial evidence of an intruder coupled with just smidgeon of common sense. If you can offer just ONE case study of parents who behaved in the fashion Ramseys are alleged to have behaved, then I would be happy to adjust my assessment of the plausibility of this theory. In contrast, a theory in which a pedophile such as Gary Oliva enters an unlocked house (thereby explaining the intruder evidence), molests and strangles a little girl on whom he admits he was obsessed (which is far more consistent than an AEA-game-gone-awry in explaining the physical evidence surrounding JBR's death) is a far simpler and more plausible explanation. The principle of Occam's Razor suggests we accept it until/unless a more plausible theory supported by the evidence is offered, which no BDI theorist has done to date.

Ivy said:
By the way, did you ever receive a reply from Keenan confirming that Burke was cleared?
No, if I do, I will post it. I feel certain that had I queried her on whether BC had been cleared, the non-response would have been the same. In short, one should not leap from her non-response to the illogical conclusion that BDI.

imo
 
DocWatson said:
Perhaps I should have been more clear. There is overwhelming evidence of an intruder
Boy, it sure is funny that this "overwhelming evidence of an intruder" hasn't cleared the parents who remain the prime suspects in the case.

I think the only thing "overwhelming", is the intruder pipe-dreams. They're enough to get people darn right delusional.

And DocWatson, sorry to see you still don't understand Occam's Razor and continue to quote it to make yourself look silly. :(
 
DocW...Your intruder theory makes no sense whatsoever. Neither does any other intruder theory regarding this case. The fact is, there is no evidence of an intruder. NONE. The Hi Tec print is Burke's. The hair and fibers are John and Patsy's. The palm print on the basement door is Melinda Ramsey's. The degraded "foreign" DNA is either stutter resulting from the amplification process or innocent transfer of some kind. Last but not least, there's the note. No intruder would leave a ransom note yet forget to take the the ransomed person with him, or at least the body. Patsy penned the note. You can see her exemplars by following the link in Shylock's posts. But of course, you probably won't do that.

I believe that Burke and JonBenet were playing doctor or some other sexual game in which a cord was placed around her neck, perhaps in a "lead the prisoner" precursor to the sex play itself. When Burke inserted the paint stick into her vagina, unintentionally hurting her, she screamed and tried to get up. Burke panicked, afraid she'd tell their parents. He gave the neck cord a yank, and with his free hand, hit her on the head with the Maglite. Then he yanked the cord again, unfortunately holding it too long, causing her death. John and Patsy staged the coverup.

How convenient for you to claim that Keenan's non-response to your query as to whether Burke was cleared means nothing. You IDIers are something else.

imo
 
DocWatson said:
If you can offer just ONE case study of parents who behaved in the fashion Ramseys are alleged to have behaved, then I would be happy to adjust my assessment of the plausibility of this theory.
What? No points for originality?
 
DocWatson said:
Perhaps I should have been more clear. There is overwhelming evidence of an intruder, which BC himself concedes.


Doc Watson,

I don't concede there is OVERWHELMING evidence of an intruder. And in my theories the word "intruder" is a misnomer. A more proper term would be "fifth person in the house", invited in by a Ramsey. The Ramseys wouldn't be lying and carrying out a coverup to protect an intruder whom they didn't even know.

There is evidence of a fifth person being in the house that night, and maybe more than one.

JMO
 
One thing that makes me think there might have been a 5th person in the house that night (Doug Stine) is that after Burke returned to school, Susan Stine drove Doug and Burke to school every morning (and maybe home afterwards) apparently without worrying that the killer would try to get Burke.

imo
 
Ivy said:
One thing that makes me think there might have been a 5th person in the house that night (Doug Stine) is that after Burke returned to school, Susan Stine drove Doug and Burke to school every morning (and maybe home afterwards) apparently without worrying that the killer would try to get Burke.

imo


That's right Ivy. It appears the Ramseys and the Stines know who killed JonBenet, but they don't know "for sure" which one actually did it.

JMO
 
I suppose that if the boys acted together, it's possible that even they don't which one of them actually killed her.
 
Ivy said:
I suppose that if the boys acted together, it's possible that even they don't which one of them actually killed her.


Good point Ivy. I never thought of it that way.

The main reason I suspect Doug's involvement is the bizarre behavior of the Stines following the murder. Susan became "Patsy's pit bull", the Ramseys and the Paughs moved into the Stines one-family house for 5 months, and then the Stines quit their high level positions at CU, sold their house, and followed the Ramseys to Atlanta. It just doesn't compute.

JMO
 
BlueCrab said:
The main reason I suspect Doug's involvement is the bizarre behavior of the Stines following the murder. Susan became "Patsy's pit bull", the Ramseys and the Paughs moved into the Stines one-family house for 5 months, and then the Stines quit their high level positions at CU, sold their house, and followed the Ramseys to Atlanta. It just doesn't compute.
I totally agree about the Stine weirdness... BUT she was Patsy's pit bull on the 23rd when the cop came about the 911 call. That was BEFORE the murder. 'Splain that.
 
Britt said:
I totally agree about the Stine weirdness... BUT she was Patsy's pit bull on the 23rd when the cop came about the 911 call. That was BEFORE the murder. 'Splain that.


True, but Susan Stine didn't get the monikers of "Patsy's Pit Bull" and "The Gatekeeper" until after the murder and the cops and the press couldn't get any comments from a Ramsey nor get any further than Susan at the front door of her house.

JMO
 
BlueCrab said:
True, but Susan Stine didn't get the monikers of "Patsy's Pit Bull" and "The Gatekeeper" until after the murder and the cops and the press couldn't get any comments from a Ramsey nor get any further than Susan at the front door of her house.
That's my point, BCrab. The cop didn't get any further than Susan at the front door on the 23rd, two days before the murder. Could this have had something to do with the boys then? Or was it Patsy she was running interference for? Clearly, their odd connection began before JB's death, a fact reinforced by John's attempted distancing of the prior relationship in his later deposition. What was going on then - before the murder?
 

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